Coronavirus and hiking

[DixieFlyer]

Now that we are living in the era of "social distancing", it shouldn't be too surprising to see some hiking venues closed.

Here are a couple of examples:
* The Navajo Nation has closed all of their tribal parks: https://navajonationparks.org/public-notice/
* The road up to Kitt Peak is closed to the public...here is a pic that a friend took when he attempted to ride his bicycle up to the top: [ broken link removed ]

It would seem like hiking, especially in remote areas, would be one of the safer things that you can do...but with the frenzy that is going on, I imagine that there will be more closures in the coming days

[skatchkins]

@nonot
Do snowbirds count in our stats (for either passing avenues)? And serious question, does their free Canadian healthcare cover them down here?

[nonot]

@skatchkins
<shrug> I scaled the projections for Washington and New York to AZ based on what google gave me for population. And I may have messed up the New York projection using New York City rather than New York State.

[chumley]

@DixieFlyer All I have to say is you should consider sitting down with the the Israelis and Palestinians. Congrats on winning the internet today.

[azbackpackr]

@skatchkins
Canadians were told they will lose their health care if they didn't come home. Pretty much all of them skedaddled two or three weeks ago. A lot of the other Northern Tier people went home, too. But I know some of them are still around. I don't know how it is in Phoenix, but over here there aren't too many Washington and Oregon plates left.

[Tough_Boots]

But only the non-essential ones tho right? Dog Grooming Way can stay open.

You'd have to take that up with the governor's office or find someone who thinks attempting to be witty rather than compassionate is the way to act in times like these. Maybe you don't know anyone sick yet? I do.

[skatchkins]

@skatchkins
Canadians were told they will lose their health care if they didn't come home.

Wow. Gotcha. I was wondering how that worked. Thanks.

@Tough_Boots
Spaghetti forbid anyone use humor in times like these. Not everyone fits in sad 2-dimensional political boxes, sometimes they cross state lines the weekend before, then spend all of today delivering food to shut-ins. Don't presume your own uniqueness - We're all trying not to cough in similar boats.

[outdoor_lover]

@wildwesthikes

I have no idea how this affects Hwy 89 traffic by Page and/or Hwy 160 into the Monument Valley / Mexican Hat area.

https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archi ... pARatQrJkp

[RedRoxx44]

@skatchkins
From what I have been told in the past by my Canadian clients; that if they have an emergency in the states they will be reimbursed by their system once they are home. Not sure if in full or how long that will take. I had one client who's husband was going to have hernia surgery here. Any preexisting declared pathology is not supposed to be covered if treated out of country, unless associated with an emergency. They knew he had a hernia, did not tell their MD, and planned the surgery here and then will lobby to get it paid for thru their system. The reason was it would take up to a year for him to get scheduled for that type of procedure and they did not want to wait. Always a way to "game" the system.
And yes they have to go home at a certain time to avoid losing their insurance. Also some of my international clients would purchase a "travel" type health insurance which apparently is pretty darn expensive if staying here for a time and someone had an ongoing serious problem.

[DixieFlyer]

@skatchkins
They knew he had a hernia, did not tell their MD, and planned the surgery here and then will lobby to get it paid for thru their system. The reason was it would take up to a year for him to get scheduled for that type of procedure and they did not want to wait.

[Tough_Boots]

Not everyone fits in sad 2-dimensional political boxes, sometimes they cross state lines the weekend before, then spend all of today delivering food to shut-ins.

Not sure what any of this has to do with anyone's "political boxes". But if you feel that delivering food to shut-ins allows you to be tactless then so be it. I can't stop you from imposing your uniqueness.

[wildwesthikes]

@outdoor_lover
"The checkpoints will be purely electronic through geofencing and the state’s emergency alert text system."

I think it's cute: The state will force emergency broadcast texts onto cell phones while people are driving - specifically for the purpose of alerting drivers to something AS they drive. In a state where texting and driving is illegal.

While also having an expectation that in such a remote area to expect reliable cell service if not turning phones on airplane mode entirely. Lol.

Better than stopping people in person and having officers interact with covidiots I suppose.

[chumley]

While absolutely not hiking related, there's quite a bit of good coronavirus reading on the pros and cons of "the Swedish model" (no, not the pretty one in the bikini).

Much can be found on the subject if you search, but here are a couple of samples with different perspectives:
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronav ... art-2020-4
https://time.com/5817412/sweden-coronavirus/

Quick outline: Sweden has imposed few restrictions. Schools are open, restaurants, stores, etc. continue to operate and people are going about their lives. Only elderly and higher-risk folks are supposed to quarantine and others are supposed to use common sense (obviously wouldn't work in the US!) The results thus far have been generally in line with those of other countries (both medically and economically). But that may be changing...

[Tough_Boots]

@chumley
We will likely learn that Sweden's low coronavirus numbers are due to low testing and being surrounded by countries who have acted fairly aggressively. Their high fatality rate is probably a better indication that the "swedish model" is the wrong approach. As Norway and Denmark start to loosen, Sweden's mistake will likely become very clear.

Edit:

Sweden's mortality rate is over 8% whereas Denmark is at about 4%, and Norway and Finland only at just over 1.5%.

[nonot]

The general reasons for social distancing are to prevent the hospitals from being overwhelmed and running out of manpower and equipment to treat people. Social distancing, in the end, will not really affect the death rate as long as medical capacity isn't exceeded. Social distancing is being prescribed so that capacity doesn't get overwhelmed. But it just slows down the spread, such that in the end a large volume of the population would still eventually be exposed to the virus.

It is difficult to know for sure whether capacity is being exceeded in any US state or any foreign country, and you can't really jump to conclusions, unless you know for sure that Sweden's (or any other places') hospitals can no longer keep up with the influx.

Places with older citizens, places with people that have preexisting conditions seem to be the ones where there is mounting evidence of those factors having the most influence on the death rate, assuming modern medical treatment is properly applied to the disease. But I agree with you that an abnormally high death rate could be indicating that poor social distancing practices have lead to the medical facilities being pushed over capacity, where medical treatment is lacking or not fully available to treat the patient.

[DarthStiller]

Spaghetti forbid

Wait, did the pumpkin filter get replaced with a pasta filter?

[Tough_Boots]

@nonot
The swedish are taking a relaxed approach in more ways than just lax social distancing. High mortality rates can be caused by an overwhelmed medical system or by a lack of sufficient testing. I would say that both of those possible causes are bad signs. The former is a disaster for obvious reasons. The latter is a disaster because you can't fight a pandemic successfully without information.

[chumley]

From what I've read, Sweden isn't testing anybody who doesn't end up in the hospital. If true, that would account for the high mortality rate. As has been discussed here and elsewhere, none of this means anything without accurate data -- something which we don't have anywhere. One country's "awful" data, is better than an other country's "terrible" data. Which doesn't make either of them "good" data!

[nonot]

@nonot
The swedish are taking a relaxed approach in more ways than just lax social distancing. High mortality rates can be caused by an overwhelmed medical system or by a lack of sufficient testing. I would say that both of those possible causes are bad signs. The former is a disaster for obvious reasons. The latter is a disaster because you can't fight a pandemic successfully without information.

I don't see how testing matters. You get sick, the sickness develops into pneumonia. You get treatment for pneumonia. It's the same treatment regardless of the cause being coronavirus, the flu, or some other disease. Even the most basic medical facilities can diagnose pneumonia.

There is no antivirus medication for coronavirus, so even if you test positive, there isn't a specific drug, cocktail, nor panacea they use to treat you. They may quarantine you to prevent you from spreading it to others.

[Tough_Boots]

I don't see how testing matters.

How else do you get info on the prevalence of the outbreak and where the prevalent areas are? If your only goal is treatment rather than prevention then I see your point. But I think more lives, money, and anguish are ultimately saved by focusing on both.

[SAMBA]

@nonot
Would you knowingly put yourself in close proximity to someone who you know has tested positive to the COVID-19? Would your answer change if you didn't know he had tested positive? Testing would allow you to make an informed choice.