Knee Pain

[BillLator]

Last month (7-18) I hiked the South Kiabib trail into the Grand Canyon. About a mile before the river I started getting some pain along the outside of my left knee. I was not so bad that it stopped me but I did baby it the last mile.

The next day I hiked out and going uphill I did not feel that pain at all. I kind of forgot about it but 3 days ago I did Camelback and about halfway down it returned.

I did some research on the web and my best guess is it's a strained legimate called a LTL which is what holds your knee togather. This is commenally damaged in football injuries but I also read running down hill can also stress it. The suggestion is to lay off stressing it for 2-4 weeks.

Has anyone else had a similar experience and if so what did you do to heal it? Or any support suggestions such as a knee support?

Thanks,

Bill

[RedRoxx44]

Downhill hiking puts a lot of eccentric force on the knee complex. See your Dr and all that, but also check your shoes for wear marks- it may be extra pronation or supination there causing a bit of torque at the knee. It also could be your ITB a long muscle tendon complex outside of the knee. If it continues after the Md consult a sports physical therapist and they can recommend stretching and strengthening if needed. A short knee support with metal stays on either side of the knee may be helpful also.

[CindyC]

I have a similar problem with my left knee. For years I have run hills as part of my training. It never bothered me until year before last right after a downhill stretch, at the Whiskey Row Marathon. The pain was intolerable and I almost didn't finish. I was on crutches for a few days. It has never competely recovered and I do, against advise, wrap it when I run. It seems to be the only thing that helps. When I am training for an event I also take 30c of Arnica Monatana 3 times a day. Seems to make a big diference. Good luck.

[Daryl]

I had the same thing. Uphill is fine, down hill hurts. Going down stairs hurts like heck too. Stay off it as much as possible for a few weeks and you'll be good as new.

[Sredfield]

If you don't have them, go get some poles.

[BillLator]

In response to BillLator's reply:

Thanks all for the advice....I will use it all, seems it is manageable through these suggestions. I just moved from Chicago "The Flatlands" and would hate to be stuck only on flat trails.

[olesma]

I just moved from Chicago "The Flatlands" and would hate to be stuck only on flat trails.

Well, since there aren't too many of those in this state - I hope you find a solution that works for you.

Myself - I have a degenerative disorder in my knees similar to arthritis. I have found that frequent and aggressive physical therapy has helped significantly. I do weight training 4 to 5 days a week (depending on my schedule). At least two of those days involves significant strengthening and flexibility work on my leggs and knees.

My knees used to hurt like the devil and for a while I thought I would have to give up hiking. I could barely walk across a room. But since I've been working on them I haven't had a single problem.

I just have to make sure that on any hikes I start out with lots of stretching and start out slow slow and make sure I'm warmed up - but once I get the blood flowing I don't have any problems.

[BillLator]

In response to olesma's reply: The problem is on Downhill and is only after a mile or two down. When I did the South Kiabab it didn't start to hurt until about mile 6 or 7 of all down hill. That is when I think I overtaxed it.

Then last week after a few weeks of non-hiking it came up again after about 3/4 of the way down Camelback. I'm hoping some rest and perhaps a support. My preference would be to strength it with some excercise and a gradually do some down hill.

I also found as it was hurting if I put my left knee up on a rock and streched it by bending the knee 100% a few times I was good for 20 or so more steps, then it would start to act up again.

I finished by just not bending it.

My other solution would be to find a hikeing pal that would hike up with me and then carry me down....lol.

Bill

[bzachar]

I've never abused or injured my knees but like others have mentioned I start having pain on the outside of my left knee after going downhill for a few miles. I'm right-handed and kick with my right foot so it would seem the left side is the weaker side.

On the way down the Cave Trail (Peralta Canyon) the pain became significant enough during the last 1/2 mile that I stopped to take a break and started chatting with some retired folks. I mentioned to them what was happening with my knee and the husband stated that it was caused by stresses put on the muscles that aren't normally there. He told me that he had a friend that could not get down a trail because the knee pain was so bad. He got his friend down by having him walk backwards. It was slow but worked.

My own observations are:
-the length and steepness of the downhill portion of the hike directly influence how quickly the discomfort develops and how strong it becomes.
-I can go uphill/across the flats forever.
-At the old guy's suggestion I bought a hiking pole. On the downhills I carry it in my left hand to unload my left knee. It helps.
-As soon as I stop hiking the pain starts to go away. In the Jeep on the way home I can feel the pain subsiding. By the time I go to bed the pain in almost non-existent. No aspirin necessary.


For those that don't have knee injuries, have you observed the same thing?


Bill

[ADGibson]

I get that exact thing. Uphill is fine and downhill sucks. I got a hiking staff from REI and it helps alot.

The other thing is I don't hike alot. I train mostly on a stationary bike and save my knees for my backpacking trips. I don't usually day hike. For this group that will get me banned.

[Sredfield]

The surgeon who did my second knee 'scope job suggested training on a stair master, only face away from the machine. I've added this to my gym workout and it seems to make a difference. Builds up the quads, which offset the over development of the back of your legs. Still have some knee pain, but it isn't stopping me yet.

[BillLator]

In response to bzachar's reply: You just reminded me about backwards....

When I did the Grand Canyon, I did find going backward was painless, but slow and dangerous.

I'm going to try to rest it for a few weeks the try some gradual downhill to strengthen it and use a wrap or support of some kind. If after that does not work I will try the hiking pole idea.

I have another small issue with two toenails but I'll create a new thread.

Bill

[berkforbes]

Here i go again commenting on old posts....

i have torn my left acl twice now, both times from playing soccer, and it absolutely kills me when it comes to hiking. but recently i was reading a story of a 90 year old man who was prepping to climp mt. whitney and he said to combat knee pain he eats a lot of raw potatoes. I dunno how scientific this is, but i tried it last time i did calloway and i gotta say my knee hurt much less than the first time i did it..

[BobP]

i was reading a story of a 90 year old man who was prepping to climp mt. whitney and he said to combat knee pain he eats a lot of raw potatoes.

Maybe the raw potatoes turned to vodka to kill the pain.

[Sredfield]

Reviving this thread versus starting an new one"

Has anyone had knee replacement surgery? Would you do it again? Any tips as I consider this?
Thanks

[LosDosSloFolks]

@Sredfield
Contact @outdoor_lover
I believe she has had both knees done within the past couple of years.

[Mountain_Rat]

@Sredfield
I avoided knee surgery twice. The first time the insurance company pulled the plug on it (Thank God!). On the second occasion, the doctor advised, but I was unable to find anyone who was overjoyed with having had the surgery (again, Thank God!). Some need it in order to keep walking, but no one I talked to was able to tell me that their knee/s were like new. I thought I "needed" surgery to get my knee back, but was able to do it mostly through changes in footwear. It really depends on how bad your knee is. Anywho, it's great that you ask around quite a bit before letting them in there. You can't return a knee surgery like a pair of shoes.

[RedRoxx44]

In my past life helped rehab lots of knee replacements. IMHO interview your surgeon well, and make sure they are open to any questions you have. Experience is good, and try to get a sense of their success rate. If they or their office are difficult to deal with start looking at other docs. Be upfront, don't anticipate problems but if they occur you need to know they will be accessible.
Do your PT and don't be afraid to question them either. Extension or flexion can be an issue, one, usually not both. Both the straightening and the bending very important. Used to be that 90 degrees was the gold standard VERY SOON after surgery. Swelling needs to be managed as does pain. Your going to have to work it and it will not be pleasant. That said I've seen more than a few return to hiking and some fairly rough hiking within a reasonable time frame after surgery.
Consider other options if you haven't yet prior to surgery. Get the leg as strong as possible and work on your range of motion pre op.

[Sun_Ray]

@RedRoxx44
“Get the leg as strong as possible and work on your range of motion pre op.” Have had both knees replaced and could not agree more with this statement. When the pain and / or limitations become quality of life issues….it’s time.

[AZLumberjack]

Has anyone had knee replacement surgery? Would you do it again? Any tips as I consider this?
Thanks

Hi Shawn, it's been five years since I had both knees replaced (three months between surgeries). Prior to the replacements I had to begin preparations a day in advance of a planned hike. I applied "Theragesic", a rub-on ointment, the night before and the morning of the hike, took Tylenol and used an elastic tube prior to, and during the hike. This was all to alleviate the sharp arthritis pain.

Following the first knee surgery, I was already hiking in the Superstitions and that left-knee was feeling fine. I kept up with PT a couple times a week and did the same routine following the right-knee replacement. My only complaint, at the time, was that I couldn't get full bending of the knee. The Surgeon used a large protractor and measured the flex at 151 degrees and the normal was around 125, so I was doing exceptional. What do you want? was his reply. I told him that I wanted my heel to, once again, touch my butt when fully bent (about 180 degrees). He politely told me that that wouldn't happen.

Now, five years later, I'm still getting out hiking, but not doing the Flat Iron any more. My initial hikes included the Peralta Trail to Fremont Saddle, once with my PT instructor, all without any problems. These days, I feel a pressure in both knees after the first couple of miles, but nothing like the pain I felt prior to the replacements. I can't do the ten-milers any more and the higher AEG hikes are out.

From my experience has shown that I would definitely do it again.
Jack Olson