Chiricahuas and Smugglers

[raisingarizona13]

I've been really wanting to explore the Chiricahuas for some time now and just recently started doing some actual research. It looks incredible up in there but I keep hearing about the dangers related to drug smugglers. How bad is it really? I imagine that they don't really want anything to do with backpackers.

Does anyone in here have experience spending time up there and what are your thoughts?

Thanks

[Mountain_Rat]

@Alston_Neal
Who said they don’t want to get caught?

Advocacies south of the border know who qualifies to stay in the US and who does not, and coach the crossers accordingly. Those who are urged to cross are given these simple steps to follow:

1. Take uber to the border
2. Step across border
3. ***This One’s Important*** Get caught !!!
4. Receive NTA or OTA (notice or order to appear – 3 plus year backlog on court dates, severs as a work and travel visa in the interim.
5. Catch bus to Tucson (or Yuma)
6. Contact an NGO (Catholic diocese, chicanos por la causa, or other)
7. Get your vouchers, food stamp card, medical card, plane/train/bus tickets
8. Take the scheduled bus to the proper travel terminal
9. Catch your plane/train/bus to final destination
10. Get on with your life.

Who would cross remote and hostile terrain when there’s a system in place to facilitate all of the above? Oh, that’s right, the bottom of the barrel that needs to remain under the radar for one of several dozen reasons.

Anywho, this isn’t some monomial situation whereby border crossers are merely seeking jobs and a better life - ‘The End’. That is an incomplete and irresponsible rendition of the facts. It’s like suggesting that potato salad is made of paprika. I’m on the border more days than not and I can’t keep all the layers straight, so don’t think that you’re getting the skinny from an occasional, slanted news byte or from your twitter feed.

[xsproutx]

severs as a work and travel visa in the interim.

Citation needed.

[Mountain_Rat]

@xsproutx
Not your research assistant. Google it.

[xsproutx]

@Mountain_Rat
"HAZ Forum Guidelines
1) Support your opinion with facts. "

You're wrong. Simple as that. They are still not lawfully able to gain employment with some rare exceptions. Also, your claim to a "travel visa" is just weird. I suppose if I'm being generous, you mean they can lawfully stay in the country while their case proceeds which is accurate but it's odd to call that a "travel visa". A travel visa would mean they could go to other countries and come back but, of course, they cannot. This is simply called "due process".

[Mountain_Rat]

@xsproutx
They are traveling in a foreign country - this one. I work on the border, where I attain knowledge on the matter. You work on wikipedia where you develop feelings for it. You have no clue, and I have no obligation to prove my point to you. I would like to see where you have required the burden of proof of yourself herein.

Now, with your approval of course, I'm done here. I need to get my rest as I have another shift 'on the border' in the a.m.

[Jim]

Did someone say, "On the Boarder"?

I've been looking for another boarder themed dining experience with an affordable price ever since these corporate slop dealers stopped making the only concoction of slop I liked: the Double Decker Taco.
[ youtube video ]

[xsproutx]

@Mountain_Rat

So, to be clear, you're resorting to the typical ad hominem attacks, trying to redefine words (travel visa) and then fading into the black because you're wrong. It's fine, but it'd be a better look to just... not reply.

Wikipedia isn't law school, the last time I checked, although it HAS gotten pretty popular. Wikipedia is a useful research, but not my main source of knowledge.

I'm sure your shift "on the border" includes education in the finer points of immigration law and the intricacies and nuances of navigating it (and to be clear, there are intricacies and nuances!), very similar to how police officers know the ins and outs of every law and, thus, there are no reports of them getting it wrong /s. Almost like there are some different skill sets involved/expectations. Weird.

@Jim_H
This is basically the biggest crime of the century. How in the feces is that one they decided to get rid of? That's the only thing I ordered!

[ShatteredArm]

Not your research assistant. Google it.

If you're not willing to do any legwork to back up your claims, it would probably be best if you keep them to yourself. Backing up your claims is, in fact, your responsibility, not anyone else's.

[Jim]

@xsproutx I know! I tried making one with a bean borrito and a single hard taco, but it didn't fit together the same and cost more than I felt it was worth. Not to mention their red sauce is disgusting. Recently, I ordered a Burrito Supreme without red sauce. It left me feeling empty inside.

[Mountain_Rat]

@ShatteredArm
But the obligation lies only with me, not you bloviators who have seen the border once or twice and in hour long snippets. And you, you slap the word consensus into the middle of a statement as if that cements your claim in scientific fact. Well, for those of us who work on the border, my statement is the consensus. Good enough rule for you, good enough rule for me. Beside all that, you're the wiki-warriors it should be a much simpler task for you look up while I wander the desert.

[Mountain_Rat]

just... not reply

Thanks for your permission.

[xsproutx]

@Mountain_Rat

You're welcome. Didn't think you needed it but if you appreciate it, glad to give it. I can appreciate that people who work a job that's not related to the legal proceedings may have an opinion that's different from what the law is. It happens, nobody is an expert in everything obviously. Most people just don't pretend to be when they're only repeating talking points they've heard elsewhere.

You also make a lot of assumptive comments that are... well, wrong.
Here, sourced fact from a .gov website: https://www.ice.gov/investigations/labor-exploitations
If you have something that says undocumented immigrants are allowed to work while being investigated, I'd be very interested in seeing it. There are cases where certain asylum seekers can get this after a long waiting period, but it's rare that even that use case is granted and most aren't claiming asylum anyway. I'd also be very interested in seeing where people who were awaiting their trials were granted travel visas as you posited. That one is so damn rare you would really be doing me a favor because I'm always interested in edge cases.

[ShatteredArm]

And you, you slap the word consensus into the middle of a statement as if that cements your claim in scientific fact. Well, for those of us who work on the border, my statement is the consensus.

That's not how any of this works. As far as I'm concerned, you're a stranger on the internet, and as far as "consensus" or fact or anything else, anecdotes aren't data. I've read books written by people who have worked on the border, and considering they actually provide citations, I'll take their word over yours.

If you really are as knowledgeable about this issue as you claim to be, providing citations should be a piece of cake.

[xsproutx]

@Jim_H
I make what I call "Mother-In-Law Tacos" that are are basically "gourmet" double deckers occasionally. My wife hates them but they're basically my favorite guilty pleasure. El Paso kit with ground bison and then a soft shell tortilla with the refried beans and hard shell with beef/cheese/iceberg lettuce/good salsa. Really gourmet? No. Hits the spot? Damn sure.

[Jim]

@xsproutx
A lot of food snobs looked down on that menu item, but it was the only one I really liked. It was good.

[Mountain_Rat]

@xsproutx
@ShatteredArm
Just like that pair of neurotic chihuahuas that barked all last night, here you are. You both seem to think that I give a rat's pumpkin what you expect from or think of me. Going to work...

[PatrickL]

@Mountain_Rat but you keep coming back too… perhaps you’re experiencing those feelings you mentioned earlier.