What are the "Rules" of the (Forest) Road?

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

I drove on a Forest Road for my first time ever. (FR 25.) It's very narrow at places - single lane.

What are the "Rules" if one vehicle encounters another vehicle going the opposite direction?

(Almost happened to me. A jeep drove up the trailhead, looking for a campsite. If I had left a minute earlier, we would have met nose to nose.)

It seems to me that the vehicle that is going uphill should yield (that is, drive downhill in Reverse) to the vehicle going downhill, since it's extremely difficult to power up a hill in Reverse. (And even if that's not correct, the engine will overheat since air won't flow right into the radiator when going backward. (Ask me how I know.))

OTOH, if it's a Hairpin, then it might not be possible for the uphill going vehicle to turn in Reverse.

Or what if there's no discernable up and down?

[azbackpackr]

@TooOld2HikeQ didn't answer my post regarding age! Guess he is keeping it under his Tilly Hat!

[Hansenaz]

@rcorfman
I further endorse the worry less approach. Just returned from England where people drive windy single lane roads at 50mph with 10' high hedges squeezing both sides...hard for me to understand how you can do that. Certainly no AZ FR is as dangerous as that. [ photo ]

[Mountain_Rat]

@Hansenaz
Not to mention they drive on the wrong side of the road.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

@azbackpackr
Oh, I didn't know that question was for me.

The FAA says I'm too old to be Pilot in Command of a Commercial Airliner. Still a few years away from the mortality age for males in the US. (But within a couple Sigmas.)

[big_load]

@Hansenaz
Not to mention they drive on the wrong side of the road.

Whereas here many people don't acknowledge roads having sides, only a middle, which belongs to them.

I must say, the UK has a much bigger proportion of truly one-lane roads, and those rock-walled hedges are unforgiving. Knowing who's closer to the nearest wide spot and often backing up to it is just part of life.

[azbackpackr]

@TooOld2HikeQ
I just tell people I'm 70. I figure I've got bragging rights!

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

So, on Saturday, while driving downhill on FR 25 back to the Beeline, there were four other vehicles coming up hill!

The first was while coming around a curve. The driver wasn't going fast and was nice. He immediately backed up about 100 feet to where he could pull over to let me by. (I thanked him.) He said he knew the "Rule," but added that he had just seen a shoulder to go to.

(I'm still wondering how I would have backed up uphill in Reverse.)

The other three were a group of three motorcycles/trail bikes.

Actually, I encountered them when they were going up, then down, and then around later. I saw them coming and each time I stopped to let them pass.

[chumley]

@TooOld2HikeQ

(I'm still wondering how I would have backed up uphill in Reverse.)

i feel like backing up (in reverse? ) is a skill that any licensed driver should probably have a basic understanding of. The hill part works the same way forward or backward… it takes a little more pressure on the pedal you push with your right foot.

[xsproutx]

i feel like backing up (in reverse? ) is a skill that any licensed driver should probably have a basic understanding of

Maybe when you've been a pilot long enough, you forget going backwards is a perfectly normal thing for most people?

[azbackpackr]

Just stick a toothpick in me...

[RedRoxx44]

My ex used to make fun of me for some of the anxiety I had backing up on dirt roads. That, and when I had to make a like 10 point turn around on a narrow road. Practice makes perfect.

[Alston_Neal]

@RedRoxx44
Manual or auto? I've only owned an auto for a couple of years of my off-roading life. All the rest have been with a manual and that's some fun. Gas, clutch, hand brake and the free hand doing double duty between steering and hand gestures.

[RedRoxx44]

@Alston_Neal
Manual for the 07 FJ I had and one of my Jeeps. Always a bit dicey with the clutch, either not to kill the engine or too much start the tires spinning and losing traction. I never really got the hang of the clutch bypass on starting the FJ, just didn't feel natural. On really nasty turn arounds I would put the vehicle in 4 lo just to control any tendency to "lurch" in an undesired direction.
A classic was a dirt road I think near Gisela. Short steep downhill on loose gravel; the road just disappeared with a 20 foot drop off into a ravine. I was driving a stock Jeep Cherokee at the time ( ala Matt's off Road original configuration). There was no room to turn around and I was in a very steep nose down angle. Backing up required loading the back with some rock and placing rocks to chock the wheels so what little I would gain I would not slide back down. I would back up, spin out a little, stop, adjust steering, go again. Took a while. After that did not mind walking a little road if I cannot see what comes next and not familiar with the area.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

@RedRoxx44
On my last backpack trip (to Mormon Grove again), after driving the FR again, I started thinking about how hard it would be trying to go gingerly uphill in Reverse on a Forest Road with a manual transmission. I'm glad that you posted.

So, in addition to all the other points I previously made about why the Conventional Wisdom about backing uphill in Reverse seems wrong, one can also burn out a clutch, trying to modulate the clutch while rev-ing the engine for enough torque. Or, in the worse case, one can lose traction when popping the clutch and slip off the road to death.

It still seems a lot easier/better to me to let gravity do the work for both drivers and let them coast downhill when there's a conflict.

But what do I know? I always thought that Ivermectin worked (it worked for me) and that the "vaccine" was both ineffective and deadly.

[CannondaleKid]

one can also burn out a clutch, trying to modulate the clutch while rev-ing the engine for enough torque. Or, in the worse case, one can lose traction when popping the clutch and slip off the road to death.

Clutch? As ubiquitous as automatic transmissions are nowadays I wonder how many of the younger folks are asking What's a clutch?

But I digress...
Having learned how to drive a stick shift almost 6 decades ago, frankly I have to wonder if you ever really learned how to use a clutch properly. Within twenty minutes of driving for my first time, and with a clutch, no less, and I had it down. Encapsulated within those 20 minutes included not only parking on a steep uphill & starting up, but parallel parking on both an uphill and downhill... but then I probably had a good teacher.

Speaking to your worries about burning out a clutch or losing traction popping the clutch?
I gotta say, none of those issue ever came to my mind when you first mentioned backing up uphill.

A dozen years ago when I had a Samurai and did a ton of 4-wheeling, there were many times when I had to back up when meeting other vehicles on some very sketchy trails yet had no issues you seem to worry about.
Try backing up a steep, grassy slope over loose prickly-pear pads (the road had given away while I was driving by) and those well-learned decades-old skills came to mind instantly.

[Alston_Neal]

I've had to back up going uphill many times in my manual FJ. I put it in 4 Low and either first or second gear. Easy Peasy.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

@CannondaleKid
I had a 4-speed manual when I was going to college in Pittsburgh. Lots of hills. I think I learned to use the clutch correctly there. But there was always one street with a stop light going uphill at what seemed like 40 degrees that I always had to use the Emergency Brake (mounted in the center counsel) to keep me from rolling backward (into the car behind me) as I was letting the clutch out while revving for the grade.

Regardless of one's great skills, it's still easier letting gravity do the work.

[rcorfman]

I've had to back up going uphill many times in my manual FJ. I put it in 4 Low and either first or second gear. Easy Peasy.

Personally, I wouldn't use first or second gear for backing up.

[Alston_Neal]

@rcorfman
Ahhh somebody is paying attention. My FJ only has one reverse gear.