Your input on a 4 day 'adventure' in late January, Sections AZT?

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

Mostly thinking out loud as I try to sort things out in my head. But I value your input.

Come the end of January I have five days to myself.

Am thinking about a backpacking trip.

I'm always overly optimistic/always overestimating my abilities. So a five day/4 night trip is probably too much. (The most I've done so far is 3 days/2 nights in the Mazatzals. In April.) I won't be in a rush. But still need a way to bail if necessary.

I've been training for the past few months now. Am up to 30 lbs on my back, two to three times a week, two to five miles per hike, with some small elevation changes. (Albeit in Phx, at 1500' MSL.) I think that I'm in reasonable shape. (Don't need the knee braces.)

I prefer the AZT to other trails because 1) it's well marked and fairly well maintained. 2) there's more realtime data about water since it's a popular trail.

I prefer a loop so that I don't have to bother someone to drive the vehicle home and then pick me up later.

I prefer something close to North Phx, driving-wise. E.g. I can drive to Sunflower in 45 1:15 minutes. In my old age, I don't like driving anymore and 2 hours is about as much as I want to do.

(An old-timer Influencer suggested parts of the AZT in southern AZ for winter backpacking. Probably a good suggestion. But there's that drive. (An hour south of N. Phx doesn't look like it gets me anywhere close to the AZT. The Superstitions?)

So I was thinking of starting at the Barnhardt TH, then Y-Bar to the MDT, Chilson, Horsecamp Seep, Rock Creek, Half Moon back to the Barnhardt TH.

I hiked Y-Bar back in April to the MDT. Detoured to Bear Spring (overnight), then to Chilson (overnight), cut it short by turning around and taking the Barnhardt trail back to the TH. And I've hiked the east half of Rock Creek (I was about a half mile east of the Falls before turning around) and all of Half Moon.

So I'm familiar with some of the route and some water sources. And there's a bail out point via the Barnhardt trail. That's comforting.

But I'm afraid about the west half of Rock Creek trail. I saw that volunteers cleared the path to Hopi Spring. But what after that? And I see that it's kinda steep east after Hopi. Rock climbing?

And a recent report by jrich0085 here says some places near the Falls are narrow and have sharp (i.e., deadly) drop offs.

I saw an old video that Joe posted about 10 years ago. Yep, looks narrow around the Falls. (And he's running on 'em.) My balance isn't what it used to be.

I thought that if Rock Creek looked too hard after Hopi or too dangerous once I arrived at the Falls, I could turn back and continue north to North Peak Trail, come back to the Barnhard TH that way, via the Forest Road to pick up Half Moon. A lot of walking. But on a FR. (I have hiked the first mile of North Peak from the TH.)

Did I say that I'm always overestimating my abilities? (Could camp at the Mineral Creek TH.)

And it will be January. I won't go if any storms are forecast. And I won't go if it just snowed a bunch up there. Or even a little? (Although I backpacked Little Saddle Mountain after a light snow fall, and in flurries, and it wasn't bad. But that was part of the AZT. Not offish-trail like Rock Creek.)

Still, it will be cold. (But no snakes. Maybe no bears. Yay!)

I don't mind the cold during the day. And my sleep system is good to at least 20F. But cold (and blustery) makes it hard for me to get going in the morning. I might not be packed up until 10.

With short days, that's not much hiking.

And cold eats up my cooking fuel.

Okay so then I was thinking of Sunflower, Pine Mt to the Reservoir, then to Globe for a pick up. (Since 60 goes there. Easy for my friend to drive there.)

That's a 60 mile hike. More than I've ever done.

I don't see an easy bail out point for pickup. (Looks like my friend would have to drive to Globe, then 188 to the Reservoir. What's that - 3 hours from N. Phx? Rats.)

I thought that that trail might be "easier" than the Mazatzals. But looking at the topos, it looks like I would be just as high in some places. I hear that that hill at Superior is a doozie. Hard going up. Dangerous coming down?

Don't know if they get snow there like more north in the Mazatzals. So far water reports are still looking dry. (Whereas looking good along the MDT.)

Or should I try starting at Globe and going up that first hill toward Sunflower?

(Am still wondering why we do this to ourselves. Am I having fun yet? (Yes, I think so. Until I fall and break something.))

[LindaAnn]

Forget about the Mazzies. Seriously. They’re not what you’re after if you’re worried about treacherous. Start with something easier.

Superstitions will have water at the end of January. Do a loop from First Water. Much easier terrain, better temps, and there will be other people around. It’s not any farther of a drive.

Eleven people saw a rattlesnake two days ago, on New Years Eve, near Sunflower. Rattlesnakes are seen in every month of the year. They are just a part of AZ, and you do not need to worry about them.

Have fun.

[xsproutx]

Agree with Linda; just hike the Western part of the Supes. Well maintained trail, should only be an hour tops to get to depending on where you're at in PHX, generally won't be farther than 5 miles from water at any given time (and with the recent rain, there's even more out there), multiple loop possibilities to make it longer/shorter as needed. If you're doing something on the AZT and don't have someone assisting, you're just going to be doing an out and back which is... fine, but not an optimal way to spend the time in my opinion. If someone is willing to drive, you're looking at 4 hours roundrip at the least really for anything on the AZT

[SuperstitionGuy]

After checking your previous backpacking locations I was surprised that you have never visited the Superstitions. I used to guide older boy Scouts on five and six day backpack trips thru the Superstitions during the Christmas breaks. I could recommend routes that include loops or I could be available to drop you off or pick you up as well. Water will not be a problem with the recent rain and the snakes will be so docile in the cold that you will probably not even see or hear from them. Just PM me if you want further information.

[nonot]

Graduating from 2 night trips to 4 night trips generally requires only a few changes to a backpacking regime:
- more food, generally for planning purposes this tends to be about 1.5 lbs/day but varies by person
- minor increase in other daily usage consumables (toiletries, etc. - what people bring varies by person)
- need to do basic laundry/washing clothes, perhaps with biodegradable soap (check with local/area regulations as the use of soaps may vary.) Luckily Arizona is easy in this regard as things dry quickly.

For your first trip beyond 2 nights it would be wise to plan an "easier" trip with bailout options should you discover you have a problem making the transition to long duration backpacking.

While the first few days tend to be a bit more difficult due to the added weight, I would recommend anyone interested in backpacking build up to 5+ day backpacking trips. This does open up new trip opportunities and will allow you to go to places outside of the distances/areas reachable by weekend warriors.

[chumley]

Don't overlook the Superstitions. You'll see from posts in the haz forum that there are people who regularly travel from out of state to backpack there. It's a beautiful area with a lot of trail options, nearly all of which receive far more use than the AZT does in the Mazzies.

Google says it's a 45 minute drive from 101/Shea to Sunflower, so using that as a starting point, it's the same driving time to First Water, and 10-15 minutes farther to Peralta. Both are nearly half an hour closer than the Barnhart or Rock Creek trailheads.

Extra Bonus: There are approximately 4 million hours of video on YouTube about hiking and backpacking in the Superstitions for your researching pleasure.

[nonot]

Regarding driving, the 2 hour time limit does place severe restrictions. From North Phoenix, within 1 hour of driving, you are generally still in the Phoenix metro area if you are heading east, south, or west. In two hours you cannot even reach Tucson area trails.

For winter backpacking:
You may want to consider that the Cave Creek area has decent water sources though the trails tend to be overgrown once you get away from Spur Cross TH.
The Western Superstitions has a good trail system with generally good condition trails for being non-AZT
The Pinto Peak trail system is barely in range, which has only a singular spring that I can recall which limits your backpacking options.
The Mazatzals are barely in your range, but perhaps Deer Creek for a quick overnighter.
I have yet to explore the Black Canyon trail system, but I have a feeling most of those trails are in poor shape (aside from the BCT itself) so I cannot recommend that yet.

[big_load]

Another vote Supes vs. Mazatzals. It's well worth seeing and the route finding is easier. There are more escape routes if you really need them. I'll never get tired of the Supes.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

Eleven people saw a rattlesnake two days ago, on New Years Eve, near Sunflower.

Tnx.
Wow, 11 ppl saw the same snake? Is there a national snake-sighting Registry online that they report on?

Glad that I didn't see any when I was there in November.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

@SuperstitionGuy
Tnx. Yeah, I saw someone in the forum from out of state asking about the Superstitions. Which is why I mentioned it in my musings.

I'll plan to PM you for suggested trails.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

There are approximately 4 million hours of video on YouTube about hiking and backpacking in the Superstitions

Laughed when I saw that.

Well, I might check out a few videos. But not 4 million hours.

I saw that an out-of-stater asked for suggestings about the Superstitions. So I think I'll try them.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

@nonot
Tnx. I throw another freeze dried breakfast and dinner in my pack for each additional day. Which is not 1.5 lbs.

I should probably eat more when on trail. But it seems that my body instantly goes into ketosis when I start backpacking. I don't feel hungry and don't feel like eating. (Until I return home.) I start losing weight immediately.

I'll see if I can increase my endurance/overnighting as I go. Some of it is mental - for me, after a couple of days of setting up my tent, taking down my tent, it's not as much fun as first.

[LindaAnn]

@TooOld2HikeQ
There were eleven of us in the group, so I’m pretty sure we were all standing around looking at the same one while he was rattling at us. Several posted good pics in their photosets.

[nonot]

@TooOld2HikeQ
For long term backpacking over 5 days that low of a daily calorie intake does not seem sustainable from my perspective. If you start feeling super lethargic on days 4, 5 you may need to chalk up that as a lesson learned that you need to increase your calorie intake on future trips. But everyone is different and you won't know until you try.

[Mountain_Rat]

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

@nonot
Agreed. But I can't force myself to eat.

When I did part of the MDT in the spring, the first night at Bear Spring, I wasn't hungry at first. Took a nap, woke at 9 feeling a little hungry and ate.

The 2nd night at Chilson Spring, I could only eat dinner in four sittings. I ate a bit, then set up my tent. Then I ate some more, prepared my sleeping bag and clothes, etc.

It was good tasting beef stroganoff. But just not really hungry.

For now I take some dense food bars (Survival stuff) with me and try to ingest calories that way.

(I'm tall and skinny. And you know what they say about tall people: "We don't have to eat much, because in a tall person, a little goes a long way.")

[azbackpackr]

@TooOld2HikeQ
I think not feeling hungry is common. I have experienced it. Just snack a little, and eventually your appetite should return. Maybe consider a protein drink or something like that? Or Carnation instant breakfast? I always carry a packet or two of Miso soup to have for dinner, if I'm not hungry. It's only a cupful, and replaces lost salts (big time!)

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

@azbackpackr
A packet of "soup" sounds like a good, lightweight idea. Might be like an appetizer, whetting my appetite.

Now that I have a bunch of mylar food bags (to keep smellies in), I have been pouring half of my freeze dried meals into a bag, and cooking half for dinner. (Especially those "2 serving" meals.) Seems to work out better.

I take along a variety of electrolyte drinks, and - TMI - my urine is always a bright yellow on trail. (Probably attracts more animals?)

[azbackpackr]

@TooOld2HikeQ
I also split freeze dried meals, although I use very few of those. Too pricey for me, and there aren't very many I actually like. I use packaged meals from the grocery store. Knorr Pasta, instant potatoes, instant soup, couscous, instant refried beans from the Hispanic department, etc. I split those packages, too. I have a food drier, and need to get back to learning good ways to make meals at home. In recent years almost all my multiday trips have been in the kayak, and a few on the bicycle, but I've got backpacking plans this spring, and am looking forward to the trips. Anyway, I use the same food and a lot of the same gear for boat and bike trips.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

@azbackpackr
Yes, the freeze dried meals are expensive. Although by splitting them up, it's $5 a meal. And I don't have to tip.

If I were more into backpacking trips, and longer ones at that, and if I knew how to cook - and knew something about dietary needs - I might prepare my own packbacking food.

But I'm not, don't, don't, so won't. I like the convenience of the freeze dried meals and so far the ones I've eaten have been fine. (I wasn't too happy with ReadyWise Lasagna. But it could be that I didn't split it 50/50 enough. The PeakRefuel 2 serving Breakfast skillet is Denny's good - and a lot of food for one.)