Union wants to close some trails because "ermagherd so warm"

[Thoreau]

Meeting is tomorrow, July 13th...

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 945916002/

"The Phoenix fire union is asking the city’s Parks and Recreation board to consider closing several challenging Valley trails on days with an excessive heat watch.

During a public meeting on Tuesday, members of the United Phoenix Firefighters Association will request restrictions to three trailheads at Camelback Mountain and Piestewa Peak when outside temperatures reach 105 degrees."

Some of my best times on those trails were very much above 105 degrees. It's the only time the crowds thin out enough to get a good pace going.

[ShatteredArm]

I honestly don't care that much about expanding the hours, as long as it just applies to Piestewa and Camelback. But expanding it to include South Mountain as well? That seems excessive. There are many convenient alternatives to Piestewa and Camelback for those who still want to get out, but closing South Mountain essentially makes it impractical for a large swath of the city to get outdoors.

[chumley]

One of the "key data" that nobody seems to mention is how many of these rescues involve taxpaying residents of the city of Phoenix.

To solve that, I would propose a totally different system of management for Phoenix mountain preserve areas.

First, charge visitors a fee to use them. By visitors, I mean non-residents. People who live in the city of Phoenix should be permitted to use Phoenix parks without fees. Their city taxes already pay for the parks.

But if you live in Tempe, Scottsdale, or Chandler ... there's nothing wrong with a fee. There should be an annual hiker pass available to other Maricopa County residents similar to how both Arizona State Parks and Maricopa County Parks implement their pass programs.

As is a time-honored tradition here in Maricopa County, the City of Phoenix should fleece tourist visitors for all they're worth. Out of state residents should not be eligible for an annual hiker pass. Daily hiker passes should be available to any visitors at fees that reflect the most popular times for trail use.

The hiker pass should be on a phone app. Hikers should have to endure a quick safety education program, and maybe a 2 question quiz before activating the app (once a year). The app should also notify a hiker who enters a preserve of current adverse conditions. Real-time temperature warnings and recommendations against hiking can be communicated to anybody who is otherwise unaware. The technology exists. Maybe we should use it?

Is it perfect? Nope. Is it better than just closing it completely? IMO, yes.

[overthehillsfaraway]

Any idea how big the ticket is for getting caught? South mountain is really big, and I'm pretty fast... Seems like an enforcement problem.

[Alston_Neal]

@overthehillsfaraway
I've never known anyone to outrun the EMTs, but go for it.

[chumley]

A cynic might think this is an exercise in futility, but apparently the Phx Parks and Rec Board claims to want to hear from the public on their virtually certain implementation of increased trail closure hours and 105 degree trigger temperature.

Note: The meeting agenda does not include discussion of rescinding closures, reducing effective hours, or limiting preserves or trails involved. They ONLY want to talk about the two items in question: 1. Increasing the hours of closure to begin at 7am; 2. Implementing a 105-degree temperature-based trigger for closure rather than rely on the NWS to declare an Excessive Heat Warning.

https://www.phoenix.gov/parks/trails/heatsafety

At the January 23, 2025 meeting, the Parks and Recreation Board intends to discuss if the Trails Heat Safety Program should continue to use National Weather Service (NWS) Excessive Heat Warning days to determine when trails will close, or if a specific forecasted temperature threshold should instead be used. They also plan to discuss at what time trail closures should begin on those days. The Board is interested in your feedback on these possible future modifications to the Trails Heat Safety Program.

Online Feedback Form:
Click this link

To speak in person at the meeting, you need to register in advance. At this time, the meeting is not listed here, so you can't register yet. Check back at this link for when this scheduled meeting appears in the list and follow the directions in the document provided.

If you wish to speak at the meeting, please understand that the board only wants to hear your opinion on the two items which they will be discussing. Commenting on items that are already enacted may not go unheard, but they will not be addressed or voted on and you will be wasting the time of the board and other participants who wish to address the two items that are on the agenda.

If these two proposed changes may affect your access to hiking, consider participating to make your voice heard.

[Thoreau]

Thermal wars continue. The guy that launched that petition has certainly put a lotta work into this.

https://www.ahwatukee.com/news/city-par ... 790fd.html

"The city noted Phoenix trails were closed on 45 days due to extreme heat only on 43 days between May 1 and Oct. 13 this year even though temperatures exceeded 105°F on 121 days and 110°F on 69."

So they wanna change from NWS-based triggering, to that 105 degree target. As such, the parks would be closed literally 1/3rd of the year based on last year's weather data (as provided by the City.). There's really no end to the lunacy at this point.

[LindaAnn]

@Thoreau
Stay indoors in a climate controlled environment, and take some Ozempic. It’s much safer for everyone involved.

[Jim]

Wait, is this thread still about Phoenix City trails, or Scottsdale trails?

[The_Eagle]

Here's your chance. The meeting is tonight.
https://www.phoenix.gov/parkssite/Board ... Packet.pdf

[Thoreau]

Just found out about this meeting myself.

The circus has indeed commenced.


Webex link under the jan 23rd entry:
https://www.phoenix.gov/parks/board

Direct link to the webex:
https://cityofphoenix.webex.com/cityofp ... 2237747577

[Thoreau]

Active survey they have open right now that was just shared on a slide:

https://forms.office.com/Pages/Response ... gin=QRCode

Edit: Looks like this is the same survey Chumley shared a few posts back on December 3rd.

[DixieFlyer]

I saw where a family of 11 people ignored the "trail closed" signs on the Holbert Trail, and then had to be rescued when they all became overcome by the heat. Sounds like some candidates for the Darwin award.

[azbackpackr]

@DixieFlyer
I was just dumbfounded when I read that. Have any newsies interviewed the family to ask what was in their dim little brains when they decided to do that hike? (Presumably the reporter would have to be a little more polite.) They are getting slammed everywhere on social media.

[trekkin_gecko]

@DixieFlyer
John and I talked to a ranger this morning. He said they started from dobbins lookout around 10 or 1030 and were rescued down holbert. Might not have seen signs, but still a bad decision. Probably knew they couldn't get back up.