Signing-off

[Snick33]

I do not wish to erase what I've posted in the past, my only regrets are not being more direct in my opinions, to have overly concerned myself whether or not others agree, and to worry if others have had their feelings hurt or not. I have a right to my opinions, so let me clarify and summarize:

1. Nudity has nothing to do with public urination or drunkenness.
2. Someone’s dress or lack thereof is none of my business
3. If people were so concerned about public urination and drunkenness in the Verde Valley, why did they fight so hard to have nudity banned?
4. Confronting someone with a “Razor sharp knife because they are nude is not nice and my pappy didn’t have to teach me that!
5. I’m so tired of people telling me to get a life that I’ve decided to get another life; I’ve grown weary of the lack of compassion and understanding. I’ve had it with the lack of tolerance of other peoples believes.
6. My Pappy taught me many things, but the most important thing he taught me was that it’s OK to disagree, it’s OK to be different, and most importantly, you can only relate to others your experiences with some expectations, you simply cannot bull them into doing things your way.
7. I’m sorry if my humor has offended anyone, it was an attempt to soften my statement.
8. Lastly, I’ve decided to exercise my most inalienable right which is my right to move on.

[Shi]

In response to Snick33's reply:
Snick's, I think you have made yourself perfectly clear and I would be greatly disappointed if you were to "move on".

You have exhibited clear expression of your beliefs, views, choices, just as many others have, and you certainly are entitled to your beliefs, just as the others are. Nudity is okay, nudity is not okay. Both sides expressed their views, both sides win. Can't go wrong with that. If you don't like it, stay away. If you like it, bring it on!

This by no means makes you either right or wrong and that is what makes all of this so wonderful!

We all get to express ourselves and our opinions with our various experiences. I just think in terms of "live and let live". Thankfully, we are not all alike....what a boring life it would be to never be able to have a discussion or a difference in opinion or to be stuck with myself ALL the time...that is what we would be if we all thought and behaved alike! BORING!!!!!

So, I hope you just keep expressing your views! It's nice to know that we aren't all alike!

[ajcanable]

I agree with SHI! Let's not change a thing. And lets not start deleting our posts! It's these touchy subjects that really bring out our true nature. These are the best topics!

[joebartels]

Everybody is certainly entitled to his or her own opinion that's why it's called a forum!

Heck I agree with Wiz, Snick & Montezumawell about 70% of the time on an individual basis and I figure it's mutual. (probably less )

I don't want anybody to leave. There's a little bit of everybody that's posted on HAZ in me. Everybody please ease up on the personal attacks and keep posts relevant to the topics. Life is too short for feuding.

[mttgilbert]

I didn't post to the most recent controversial topic, but I have certainly had my share of heated debates in the past. I will never erase, or alter the content of a post (somethimes I change grammar and punctuation). If I have the guts to hit submit thats it. If it was important enough to say once, it should be left. Besides nothing can be gained by destroying information. We post here so others can learn from us and gain from our mistakes. Even if those mistakes occur online and not outside shouldn't we leave them there for others to benefit from? Plus its not fair to the other posters, when strong words are bandied about the context is cery strict. when posts are destroyed the context of the others posters comments becomes skewed and sometimes they come off looking pretty bad.

Theres no reason for anyone to sign off. Frankly its a little childish. Why deny the rest of us your often off-color, usually funny, and never uncontroverial comments? On the same token I enjoyed everyone elses take on nude hikers (and every other controversial topic we've had). The zumas had some good things to say (zumas, I'd love to quote you here on something but you've already deleted all your posts). Wiz did what he felt was best at the time and now he shouldn't have to defend his actions. It just like snick said, everybody has the right to their own opinion. It's OK to ask someone to defend their opinion, but no one should ever have to defend themselves.


So not everybody here agrees. Would you really want a site where everyone did?

[Rodney]

So not everybody here agrees. Would you really want a site where everyone did?

I would!! Well...not really...but, I just had to disagree with you.

I would like to comment on one Zuma line...

He said, "Son, don't ever talk about sex, religion or politics when we go to visit anybody. And you'd be wise if you never talked about any of them three with anybody else either, for that matter."

In my opinoin....if it weren't for religion, all the politicains would be dead and most of those at the hands of someone that's not getting enough sex! Translation: Politicians "stick" it to the public till they scream hallelujah!

Ok Snick, I'm signing-off too now...see ya back here in a couple of days!

[Wiz]

In response to Snick33's reply:
Come on, Snick, get over it. It was just a thread on a web site. You didn't like what you perceived to have been my actions; I didn't like your calling me on it. Let's both get over it. Nothing "over the line" was said between us, and I, for one, can take it without getting my nose out of joint.

Unless there's more to your complaint than just our exchange, let's put it past us. I'm not sore. What do you say?

[Wiz]

To everyone on this forum

I can't help but feel that I may have been a disruptive influence here. It seems that an exchange of postings with me has driven off a popular member of the forum, something I never wanted.

With regards to Snick's problem with my action in Hawaii (almost 15 years ago), I ask you all to put yourself in my place. I was in a remote area, with no way out but 11 miles of steamy hellish jungle cliff-hugging trail. Almost everyone in the area was an outlaw. (By this I mean they were living there full-time, when it was illegal to stay longer than 3 days. Some of them were regularly arrested for this. But they were uniformly very nice, warm, open people).
But they didn't care what we did to each other - however things came out would be entertainment for them.
Snick is right, waving a knife is not a nice thing to do. But I'm a nice person - what does this tell you about the situation I was in? This was not my first action, but my final one. It lasted a couple of seconds and was over - no dramatic music, no examination of motives. There was no one to complain to, no one to write a letter to. There was him and me. My other option was to punch the guy, which would have precipitated a whole series of unpredictable events. The guy could have come back with a knife of his own, and I'd have suddenly been in a knife fight. At that time I knew nothing about knife fighting, and probably would have been killed. These things all went through my brain in a flash. The course I took resulted in the guy backing off and leaving us alone, and no one was injured. It was a bluff - but it worked.

There, I've explained myself even after saying I wasn't going to. Now, with that off my chest, I put it to you all: If you all feel the harmony of this website would be better served by my leaving it, I will understand and bear no ill will. Please, say what you think - I will not be offended or angered, and I will respect your wishes.

[HikerInGilbert]

Snick,

I have to say the debates you get involved on here are pretty entertaining. Keep it up. I get a huge chuckle from some of these posts. I hope you do too. Albeit, some get beaten to death. This one was case in point.

Like Joe said, this is a forum. Some folks get "keyboard muscles". Most just post what's on their mind. I think it's great.

You sure get to see a multitude of personalities and opinions...

[mttgilbert]

In response to Wiz's reply:

Nobody would be served by your, or anyone else for that matter, leaving the website.

[ROGER]

In response to matt gilbert's reply:

But additionally, no one is going to beg you to stay. Lets grow up. I'm tired of the "I'm taking my ball and going home" attitude.
We make our opinions known, some agree, some disagree. Deal with it.
Thats the reward we get for opening our mouths.
I will say, however, I will miss Snik's posts.

[Wiz]

In response to matt gilbert's reply:

But additionally, no one is going to beg you to stay. Lets grow up. I'm tired of the "I'm taking my ball and going home" attitude.
We make our opinions known, some agree, some disagree. Deal with it.
Thats the reward we get for opening our mouths.
I will say, however, I will miss Snik's posts.

I'm assuming your comment was directed toward me.

No one is asking anyone to beg. I'm not threatening to leave in a snit, Roger. I'm offering to leave if the rest of you find my contributions to be offensive or unwelcome. If you don't care one way or the other, fine. If, like Matt, you want me to stay, I appreciate it. If you don't, just say so. I will bow to the will of the majority, without rancor or hard feelings.

[ROGER]

Wiz,

My post was directed at Snick and yourself.

My point is it's not up to Matt or myself or anyone else for that matter to decide if you should continue to view your ideas on this forum. This particular forum was started by Snick telling us all he was leaving because you and he disageed or he felt like he wasn't respected, now you have offered to "leave" if the readers felt you should. This isn't a popularity contest and niether one of you should feel that you have hurt of offended anyone.
You voice your opinion and move on. Some will agree, some not but as long as you remain within the rules set forth by Joe and HAZ, you should not feel bad about your opinions and who they may offend.

[HikerInGilbert]

In response to matt gilbert's reply:

But additionally, no one is going to beg you to stay. Lets grow up. I'm tired of the "I'm taking my ball and going home" attitude.
We make our opinions known, some agree, some disagree. Deal with it.
Thats the reward we get for opening our mouths.
I will say, however, I will miss Snik's posts.

I'm assuming your comment was directed toward me.

Other than being old, scruffy, gun wielding, opinionated, and self-serving Wiz, I think you come up with some great stuff.

I just knew this thread was going to get to a crescendo.

Snick, your levity is failing you. Buck up.

Zumas? Deleting posts? Never thought I'd see that day.

To the rest of you... the topic has been officially "beaten".

[Wiz]

Other than being old, scruffy, gun wielding, opinionated, and self-serving Wiz, I think you come up with some great stuff.

I'll buy all of that. But I'm trying to remember a "self-serving" instance. It must have been a good one for you to remember it! (Hey, give me a break, at my age I'm lucky I remember how to log on).

[HikerInGilbert]

Other than being old, scruffy, gun wielding, opinionated, and self-serving Wiz, I think you come up with some great stuff.

I'll buy all of that. But I'm trying to remember a "self-serving" instance. It must have been a good one for you to remember it! (Hey, give me a break, at my age I'm lucky I remember how to log on).

Dang. I forgot to include "trouble-maker" in there... :rollH:

[woopitup]

hmm, have you ever woken up one morning and felt as if you may have "missed something" : At the risk of stepping into a rattlesnake cage, , , I've read all that was posted in this string and I for one find a smile on my face, that we are all free to exercise/express our opinions. It's a wonderful, fought-for freedom that we all have! Keep it up.

woopitup

[Wiz]

Dang. I forgot to include "trouble-maker" in there... :rollH:

Yup, a man for all seasons - that's me. I'm a riot at parties with a lampshade, too.
But dang! I still can't believe you busted me being self-serving. You guys weren't supposed to know about that!

[Abe]

Even differences prove helpful, where there are tolerance, charity and truth......Mahatma Gandhi


....if we cannot end now our differences, at least we can help make the world safe for diversity......John F. Kennedy


I love this site! And you all are great. And I am a tree hugging, bleeding heart, liberal with a moderate slant, who believes in taking responsibilities for my action.

[olesma]

I hate to say it folks - but I think that ol' Ricky may not even be listening to all of this.

And it's a darned shame.

Snick is a pretty stubborn guy, and it is entirely likely that his sign off post was indeed the very last time he will ever visit the forum. He may visit the site now and again to get some trail info - but I would not count on ever seeing another post from him.

I hope to heck I'm wrong - I think Snick was a valuable member of the community. He will be sorely missed.

There are some of us who have been around long enough to remember when Snick was actually considering leaving this mortal existence because of a battle with throat cancer. Friends, family and this forum helped him to decide to fight through and stay with us a bit longer. It was a memorable and touching time for many of us.

Snick - just in case you are reading this thread - we'd all like you to stay. But if the tone of the forum has gotten to a point where you aren't comfortable with it any more - that's okay too. As much as we enjoy your humor and wisdom, I think it is only sensible that if you don't enjoy it any longer - there is no reason why you should stay (since fun and friendship is what this forum is all about).

If you indeed do not return - you'll be missed.