Ruins along 88

big_load · Post by **big_load** » Nov 30 2007 11:53 pm

There's a big alcove on the north side of the Salt River just east of Canyon Lake that appears to contain cliff dwellings. I've never been able to slow down enough for a look without getting rammed. Is it really there? Does any trail provide a better view?

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Dec 01 2007 12:01 am

Hmmm... north side of the Salt River east of Canyon Lake gets pretty distant to see much from 88

By Mesquite Flats?

Looking towards El Recortado or Sheep Mountain?

Perhaps south of the Salt River in that terrain north/ne of Tortilla Flats?

big_load · Post by **big_load** » Dec 01 2007 12:23 am

joe bartels wrote:Hmmm... north side of the Salt River east of Canyon Lake gets pretty distant to see much from 88

By Mesquite Flats?

Looking towards El Recortado or Sheep Mountain?

Perhaps south of the Salt River in that terrain north/ne of Tortilla Flats?

Yes, I couldn't really be sure of what I thought I saw. I was looking from near the crest of the hill between FR80 and Tortilla Flat, probably toward El Recortado, but I suppose Sheep Mountain is also possible. I should have tried to mark it more closely, but the memory of that SUV in the upper part of Fish Creek Hill was still fresh in my mind (and camera) and avoiding a similar fate was high on my agenda.

Pacoaz · Post by **Pacoaz** » Dec 01 2007 12:57 pm

I know of the cave you're talking about, I think, but the distance makes it difficult to see inside. It wouldn't surprise me though if it is a cliff dwelling. I lived at Apache Lake for almost ten years and will testify that the entire area contains many, many Indian ruins -- including what appears to be "cities" around many mesas. By this, I mean a series of caves showing human habitation. They even appear to show "classes" with the caves improving as you move upward.

nonot · Post by **nonot** » Dec 01 2007 1:03 pm

My surveys place it north and slightly west of Tortilla Flat. I show no trails in the area, but I suppose one could follow Tortilla Creek towards Canyon lake when there is less water. to get most of the way there.

Hoffmaster · Post by **Hoffmaster** » Dec 02 2007 9:54 pm

So the next logical question is: Who wants to go check it out, and when?

big_load · Post by **big_load** » Dec 02 2007 10:02 pm

Hoffmaster wrote:So the next logical question is: Who wants to go check it out, and when?

It's going to be a while before I'm back, but I'll stay tuned to see if you find anything.

A few minutes with binoculars on the side of the road would probably be a good start.

nonot · Post by **nonot** » Dec 02 2007 10:36 pm

Are we talking about the same one?

http://hikearizona.com/dex2/igallery/im ... hp?id=3037

It's inconclusive from my angle if there is anything in there.

YouTube https://youtube.com/username · Post by **PrestonSands** » Dec 02 2007 10:51 pm

Hoffmaster wrote:So the next logical question is: Who wants to go check it out, and when?

I'd be interested in checking this out.

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Dec 02 2007 11:00 pm

nonot wrote:Are we talking about the same one?

igallery/image_page.php?id=3037

That's off Peak 2749
http://hikearizona.com/phoZOOM.php?ZIP=13329
That's well south of the Salt, it's on the north side of Tortilla Creek as nonot surveyed. The approach is dry.

it was a trivia question, maybe SuperstitionGuy knows

big_load · Post by **big_load** » Dec 02 2007 11:42 pm

joe bartels wrote:
nonot wrote:Are we talking about the same one?

igallery/image_page.php?id=3037
That's off Peak 2749
http://hikearizona.com/phoZOOM.php?ZIP=13329
That's well south of the Salt, it's on the north side of Tortilla Creek as nonot surveyed. The approach is dry.

I think that's it. I guess my perspective was out of whack from keeping one eye on the road. In my imagination there were some nice square windows near the bottom.

nonot · Post by **nonot** » Dec 02 2007 11:51 pm

Ah, figures Joe would have a better picture. There could be something there. Some of them are so well camoflauged that you won't know it until you're two feet from it.

PaleoRob · Post by **PaleoRob** » Dec 03 2007 7:06 am

nonot wrote:Some of them are so well camoflauged that you won't know it until you're two feet from it.

Isn't that the truth!

SuperstitionGuy · Post by **SuperstitionGuy** » Dec 06 2007 8:59 pm

Joe B. wrote

it was a trivia question, maybe SuperstitionGuy knows

Well for 75 points in the Masters catagory....... :sorrry:... .but I have not been there............yet.

This close to the road and civilization, if there had been indian ruins in there, they would have been dug out completely years ago. Pot hunters you know, such as the builders of Apache Trail, construction workers going to and from Roosevelt dam, the highline crew, etc. etc. If you want to see undistrubed ruins you have to be willing to hike or backpack a little deeper into the wilderness, get off trail and be willing to bushwack. Like between Reavis Falls and Reavis Ranch, Rough Canyon or Paradise Canyon. In other words where the trails don't normally take you.

big_load · Post by **big_load** » Dec 06 2007 9:41 pm

SuperstitionGuy wrote:Joe B. wrote
it was a trivia question, maybe SuperstitionGuy knows

This close to the road and civilization, if there had been indian ruins in there, they would have been dug out completely years ago.

Yeah, I didn't expect undisturbed ruins. After seeing the pour-off in Joe's picture, the chances of its being anything other than a campsite don't seem good.

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