red mountain? outside mesa

chavez1280 · Post by **chavez1280** » Mar 07 2006 6:36 pm

looking for trail info for hike up red mountain outside mesa. new to area so looking for good directions. greatly appreciated thx

Hoffmaster · Post by **Hoffmaster** » Mar 07 2006 7:05 pm

I think that mountain is on the Salt River/ Pima Reservation. The indians supposedly consider the mountian sacred and are not keen on people hiking up it.
Not that I haven't tried though. I searched for access, but the best I could come up with is to park at the first recreation site on the Bush Hghwy and wade across the Salt River.

Good luck!

Nighthiker · Post by **Nighthiker** » Mar 07 2006 9:19 pm

No access to non tribal members, big trouble if caught.

whereveriroam · Post by **whereveriroam** » Mar 07 2006 9:37 pm

Check this site under Red Mountain a.k.a. gunsight butte. The infamous sidhayes has written a triplog on it with how he or she got to the top.

mttgilbert · Post by **mttgilbert** » Mar 09 2006 12:53 pm

That mountain is off limits. If you go, go at your own risk and remember that the tribes don't have the same legal system we do. You are NOT innocent until proven guilty, you do NOT get one phonecall, and if they decide to they can confiscated everything you have on your person (including your car if it's parked on their land).

My advice, find another mountain. Respect the indian's land.

te_wa · Post by **te_wa** » Mar 09 2006 4:39 pm

my advice, dont call 'em indians

Hoffmaster · Post by **Hoffmaster** » Mar 09 2006 10:42 pm

I'm not PC.

big_load · Post by **big_load** » Mar 09 2006 11:17 pm

mikeinFHAZ wrote:my advice, dont call 'em indians

Certainly not while in custody for trespassing on a sacred site.

mttgilbert · Post by **mttgilbert** » Mar 10 2006 9:20 am

Matt Hoffman wrote:I'm not PC.

Neither am I.

AZHikr4444 · Post by **AZHikr4444** » Mar 10 2006 10:04 am

Don't wanna call them Indians..you want to say Ind'ns. and then end every sentence with "enit". As in:

"So..what the hellya doin' climbin' on our mountain. It's Ind'n land, enit!

No self-respecting Indian would ever call themselves Native American.

te_wa · Post by **te_wa** » Mar 10 2006 2:56 pm

now now boys, Im not PC and I actually never will be...
I get a kick (in the shorts) every time a news medium uses the words African American and White in the same sentence.
I call 'em Natives. I have Native friends. I am 25% Native.
Indians is such a silly word which even reflects an even more silly belief (or teaching at least) that some Spaniard discovered America.
I get to see that Mountain every time I look outside, sure have been tempted to climb it myself! But would you want to spend a night in the Rez hoosegow with a bunch of :ahem: drunk Injuns?

mttgilbert · Post by **mttgilbert** » Mar 11 2006 11:11 am

the terming of americas indiginous cultures as 'Indian' is based on a false belief, I'll grant that. And I am all for challenging beliefs, knowledge, and so-called truths. That's not what's at issue here. saying "indians" when refering to the indiginous people of this continent doesn't do them justice, but it does refer to them, when I say "indians" in a given context people know what I mean, and I know they know what I mean (reciprocity of language). This meaning can change, language is a fluid, evolving thing. In another fifty years of linguistic development we may decide that "native americans" has some sort of negative connotation, much as people from fitty years ago would find us now. That's one reason I don't want to quibble over nomenclature.

Another reason is that saying that 'natives' or 'native american' is a better way of refering to them just seems off to me. Why should it make a difference. They have been physically and spiritually displaced. So what's in a name. I think that trying to excercise political correctness in language is really a slap in the face to the people refered to. Sure we pay them lip-service by calling them "unnoffensive" terms, but most of them still live in what (I think both sides of the discussion can agree) are substandard living conditions (reservations couldn't possibly be to their liking even if they are 'sovereign nations', and anyone who has ever driven through the reservations will realize that, for the most part, the tribes living there are not living in what we know as a reasonable standard of living). If we really wanted to pay the indiginous people of this continent a true measure of respect we would do a lot more than just refraining from calling them "indians".

Allright, sorry I had to make the point because it gets to me that people (and I'm not trying to single you out or anything mike, please don't take it that way) don't mind if we treat them with disrespect as long as we speak about them with respect; I think that's a double standard. I have the utmost respect for what those cultures were, before we (more than linguistically) destroyed them.

And just to tie this in with the topic at hand, I'll add that if we really wanted to pay them respect we would be unifiying to tell the original poster that they should just stay off the land, not arguing with each other about the most linguistically appropriate way to address indians, I mean natives, I mean....

aqhaspeedhorse · Post by **aqhaspeedhorse** » Apr 27 2006 2:27 pm

To add my comment on Indian/Native American/etc (and I am partial in blood btw) - I was riding my horse at Pyramid Lake out of Reno... I guess my horse and I got too close to one of their cows (seriously not harming anything)... the reservation police were all over me in a second, had me in tears.. was basically going to arrest me and confisgate(sic) my horse! I never went back, pretty tramatic... wouldn't reccomend going to Red Mountain... (I live right by it too)....

Trionbry · Post by **Trionbry** » May 23 2006 5:30 pm

Why don't we have a contest to see who climbs it next??

te_wa · Post by **te_wa** » May 23 2006 7:34 pm

I only stated the obvious about trespassing because I have seen first hand the way a "white man" can be treated for trying to get through the gate on Ft. McDowell rd, the one that leads to the "Phon D. Sutton" area. Not to mention the Tribal Police Station is 1/4 mile from there.

I would advise caution to anyone sneaking onto that land. But then, its ok for some Indian to come stumbling into MY Cirkle-K to buy more beer?

ok, ok, kidding aside, let me know how you get to the top!

PaleoRob · Post by **PaleoRob** » May 23 2006 8:04 pm

Maybe a crazy idea, but before you go and trespass on their land, you might want to see if you can get permission to climb it. Ocasionally tribes let outsiders clamor around on their land, depending on who's in what office and all.
You wouldn't want some Piman (or anyone, for that matter) wandering onto your property to use your pool without your permisison, right? So why even think about trespassing on their land?

djui5 · Post by **djui5** » May 27 2006 2:50 pm

It's amazing to me how people disrespect Indians and their land. It's bad enough they have to live there....but now your considering trespassing on their property to climb a hill? There are plenty of hills to climb around here.

Go to Sedona if you wanna see red rocks...

azbackpackr · Post by **azbackpackr** » May 27 2006 6:50 pm

The Indians don't HAVE to live there. They can get jobs and rent or buy homes in Phoenix like anyone else!

Most of them call themselves Indians, and/or refer to themselves by their tribal affiliation. Some of the Zunis near where I live say they dislike the term "Native Americans" because to them the word "natives" brings up images of backward, naked people in National Geographic, etc! This seems pretty amusing to me, but to them I guess it's not! However I can't speak for the Pimas, or others--they may prefer the Native American term.

I agree with asking permission first, then going elsewhere if it's not granted. It used to be you couldn't summit Mt. Baldy, but in the past 3 years you can go to the so-called White Man's summit without any problems. They took down all the big signs--I guess they came to see they could have the higher point for their use, let us enjoy the slightly lower point.

saltriverman · Post by **saltriverman** » Jan 18 2008 11:49 pm

Just to get things back on track, not that the debate over Indians and Native American is PC, BUT, whether you call them Indians or Native Americans, whether your are Chereokee,Navajo, African American, Anglo Saxon, etc. the only people allowed on restricted areas, esp. Red Mountain are tribal members of the Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community. If you are not a community member you have no business being there unless you are accompanied by a community member of the SRPMIC. We are federally recognized as a sovereign nation and will prosecute those people who do not obey OUR laws. There are numerous warnings before you enter that you MUST be a community member.

te_wa · Post by **te_wa** » Jan 19 2008 6:59 am

so Saltriverman, are you able to do this hike? (if I was able to, legally, I would. I live just around the corner from this magnificient little mountain. I have also seen it called McDowell Mountain. Thanks for any info.

red mountain? outside mesa

red mountain? outside mesa

ndns

Re: red mountain? outside mesa

Re: red mountain? outside mesa