State Park Closures due to lack of funding.

GTG_AZH · Post by **GTG_AZH** » Jun 13 2002 10:08 pm

Heard on NPR this morning the state will be closing ten state parks in the next year or so due to lack of funding. Two mentioned were Lost Dutchman State Park and Picacho State Park.

What is going on here?

GTG

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Jun 13 2002 10:20 pm

Man I gotta check this out. I heard the tail end of something about that. Guess I misunderstood. I was thinking it was a drought thing and didn't pay much attention. The rolled off a whole list of which I remember, Lost Dutch, Tonto Bridge, Clints Well, Blue Range etc...

I'm gonna look now!

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Jun 13 2002 10:53 pm

I bombed on searching for more info. Think I'm going blind from reading all the news sites. I'm sure it'll be up tomorrow as it's a realitively new story.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Jun 13 2002 11:05 pm

I just checked their website and there's nothing there about any closures, other than current ones due to fire danger. You have to go to the link to http://www.azfireinfo.com to get a list of the parks that are closed. Hopefully you misheard the report, Todd. I'd hate to see what would happen to Lost Dutchman SP if it were ever closed. There'd be houses all the way up to the wilderness boundary. They're too close now, as it is!

ck_1 · Post by **ck_1** » Jun 13 2002 11:16 pm

Sorry to say boys, I heard a similar report at the end of May...due to the states rather poor political leadership and its resulting actions (alt. fuels) the state's budget is far from balanced...so, again, our less than skilled elected officials opted to address this problem by using some accounting technique that allows deficits to rollover to the next year...so...yep, next year the same group of elected officials will need to address a problem they were not able to fix this year...only next year the problem will be bigger...so, budgets will be cut even more next year...which means that yes, state parks will have to close.

This is a tough one for me, as I am technically a state employee. I'd rather they close the parks than cut my already meager salary as a public school teacher...which is another option on the table. (Jane Hull's only saving grace in my eyes is her refusal to cut public school funding).

So, next time you see a Cadillac Escallante or Chevy Yukon or Ford Expedition with the sky blue alt. fuel plates consider what the real cost of that vehicle is...

Sande J · Post by **Sande J** » Jun 14 2002 7:51 am

I hate hearing this...especially since these parks are easily accessible for many of us. Would that mean that there would still be access to the trails or not? Imagine having to sneak cross cut thru someone's property to get up the FlatIron. If anyone hears how we can have a voice on this, if even possible at all, be sure to post something.
Sande J

olesma · Post by **olesma** » Jun 14 2002 7:59 am

Well, that used to be the favored method of accessing flatiron not more than 5 years ago. You would park next to Mining Camp restaurant (just past it and around the corner actually) then go up to the trail. The residents got tired of everyone parking on their property and gated it off though.

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Jun 14 2002 8:03 am

Ya that's a long haul from Jacob's Crosscut TH

Furthermore, I don't understand how closing Dutchman in particular would save money. That place is always packed, seems like it would be generating revenue. Especially with the recent price hike.

hmmm...

olesma · Post by **olesma** » Jun 14 2002 8:12 am

This is the most incredible story I've heard in a while. Amazing that some of our most cherished landmarks (Superstition Mountain) are just going to be given up on. The level of irresponsibility here is truly staggering.

Is this a permanent or temporary solution? Will they shut it down till they solve the budget crisis (not likely given the level of competence already on display)? So, what exactly do they mean by "closing”? Does that mean they will not be monitored by rangers, meaning that we will no longer be required to pay entrance to the park (A politician cutting a source of revenue? Are you serious?)? Or does that mean that the boundaries of the park will simply be abandoned to local development?

There are a lot of ramifications here. Who can we contact about this? Does the EPA have any say in the matter (not the best solution, but we might just be desperate enough)? Is there any recourse to turn some of the parks into National Parks? What is the schedule on the decision making? Who is making the decisions?

I’m not usually an advocate of big government, but in this case I think that land management (at least land regulation – meaning limiting development) on such a large scale is necessarily a government issue.

What are some solutions? Volunteer rangers to collect entrance fees? Raising the entrance fees? (which would probably cut attendance, meaning it would be a wash) Narrowing the scope of the monitoring process? Using local law enforcement to take over some of the duties of park rangers?

ck_1 · Post by **ck_1** » Jun 14 2002 8:38 am

olesma wrote:Is this a permanent or temporary solution? Will they shut it down till they solve the budget crisis (not likely given the level of competence already on display)? So, what exactly do they mean by "closing”? Does that mean they will not be monitored by rangers, meaning that we will no longer be required to pay entrance to the park (A politician cutting a source of revenue? Are you serious?)? Or does that mean that the boundaries of the park will simply be abandoned to local development?

There are a lot of ramifications here. Who can we contact about this? Does the EPA have any say in the matter (not the best solution, but we might just be desperate enough)? Is there any recourse to turn some of the parks into National Parks? What is the schedule on the decision making? Who is making the decisions?

Lots of questions without answers...here is what I know...."state looking at closing a handfull of state parks to address possible budget cuts in the next fiscal year"...that's what I remember hearing in May....as for questions about who to contact such as the EPA...the EPA as well as the entire Department of Interior is run by Bush appointed Republicans who, since being appointed, have had a single focus...energy. In the last year, more Engery plants have come on line than in any other time in history, there is actually an energy surplus due to its mismanagement. Gale Norton @ Interior has indicated that all requests for Drillling on public owned land are to be fasttracked for approval. Neither of these women are much interested in what their consumers, the outdoor enthusiast, have to say. They do what the White House tells them to do. Don't get me started!

Bush has, in his time in office, managed to decrease the amount of federally protected land by overturning some of the public land designations Clinton put through at the end of his second term...Sorry to say, the Federal Govt. at this time is not much interested in Protecting Public land, but only interested in drilling on it.

My guess would be the most appropriate people to contact would be your local representative on up to the Governors office...though I would look at the possible "replacement" governors as an election is eminant.

I'm this topic upsets others. I know I am not alone...

Perhaps I should start a thread on why I dislike Pres. Bush and his yes men/women....aside from screwing up the environment and education, they are altering the rules of democratic governance using the tragedy of 9-11 as an....OK...getting down off soapbox now.. please accept my appology

for my rant here, not intended to begin an arguement, only expressing frustrations that affect both my work and my play..

olesma · Post by **olesma** » Jun 14 2002 8:59 am

There just isn't much way around this - but it looks like this thread is going to quickly light the fires under several peoples keyboards.

Perhaps this time I'll just try my best not to offend anyone - but it will be VERY hard for me to keep quiet. You have no idea. Just ask my wife.

However, I will make one plea before we go too far condemning all the politicians who ever existed (the right vs. left debate will end up sending them all to hell for various reasons - not that it wouldn't be a bad thing...) - can we get some hard info here?

Before this baloons out of control, lets see if we can scrounge up some hard data on what is going on. Seems like a lot of reaction to very little info right now.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Jun 14 2002 10:01 am

This just popped up on MSNBC, http://www.msnbc.com/local/AZREP/M19428 ... =x2227260-

MaryPhyl · Post by **MaryPhyl** » Jun 14 2002 10:06 am

Yesterday's Arizona Republic says there will be a meeting of the State Parks Board on June 20 at 10 AM in the Maricopa County Supervisors Auditorium 205 W. Jefferson St. The board will act on the recommendations at that time.
The article says they are facing a 16% budget cut. They seem to plan to increase user fees pretty dramatically on the parks that are open.

olesma · Post by **olesma** » Jun 14 2002 10:43 am

Well, here it is - quite possibly the one and only time I will ever post a profanity:

feces.

That about summs it up for me.

nealz · Post by **nealz** » Jun 14 2002 11:36 am

Man, this stinks. I don't mind, and would even condone cutbacks for legitamate reasons even at the expense of some my own soapbox agendas. But cutbacks due to social myopia and government mismanagement are something else. I wonder how far the TSA dough would go to keep the parks open? Don't get me started either. Hopefully there will be enough opportunity for public input before things get ugly.

-Nealz

olesma · Post by **olesma** » Jun 14 2002 12:17 pm

nealz wrote:Hopefully there will be enough opportunity for public input before things get ugly.

-Nealz

Don't bet the nest-egg on it.

ck_1 · Post by **ck_1** » Jun 14 2002 12:23 pm

MaryPhyl wrote: a meeting of the State Parks Board on June 20 at 10 AM in the Maricopa County Supervisors Auditorium 205 W. Jefferson St.

I wonder if it is an open meeting...

MaryPhyl · Post by **MaryPhyl** » Jun 14 2002 1:04 pm

They are having it in an auditorium so I would think so. Give them a call.

olesma · Post by **olesma** » Jun 14 2002 1:49 pm

As soon as someone finds out if that is an open meeting - post it. Maybe we can get a group to go over there and get our voices heard.

BoyNhisDog · Post by **BoyNhisDog** » Jun 14 2002 2:15 pm

nealz wrote:Man, this stinks.
Cutbacks due to social myopia and government mismanagement are something else. Don't get me started either. Hopefully there will be enough opportunity for public input before things get ugly.

-Nealz

My thoughts as well. Government has no concept of running a business. It is monopoly money to them, not hard earned money made through hard work creating something useful. If they screw it up, they just shrug and hold their hands out for more.

I saw this sad story on the newstand this morning. They're closing Catalina St Park and one down in Tubac too I believe amoung the others mentioned.

Lets identify the mismanagers and come election time, let's fire them. Real business does not survive by acting like this. You have someone in charge who takes responsiblity and and also takes action to prevent this nonsense. Let's make them responsible. Don't listen to excuses. I take a very dim view on excuses and back peddling. If they don't perform in a sensible manner, fire them. It is not their money or land. It is ours. If they can't keep a simple picnick site open they can't be trusted to do anything else. Someone capable can be found to do the job. We are spending an awful lot of money on these things to get back nothing. Vote!

State Park Closures due to lack of funding.

State Park Closures due to lack of funding.

Sneaking

More info

Re: More info

Woa there Silver...

Here it comes