Off Trail Gems: Let Everyone Know?

[imike]

In and around the Tucson area I know of numerous great hiking routes that are not documented in the popular literature, nor anywhere on this site. It would seem that the very purpose of the HikeArizona site is to share and advertise all the great hiking potentials out there... but, is it always a good thing to make known to everyone all the potentials, or should there be a sense of discovery and adventure left open to the new hikers coming along? I know that as I discovered certain hikes just this last year, I was thinking about how I wished I'd been aware of them years earlier... and I would have enjoyed finding them in some of the literature. Then again, I appreciated never running into anyone up on them... and once they become known, they could and probably would get far greater use.

There are many issues to be considered here... and I was wondering what everyone has to say on the topic. It probably applies to all areas. Oddly enough, 30 years ago this same issue came up out West in regards to great kayak runs. The general feeling then was that the research, discovery and exploration should be allowed to each individual... otherwise they did not deserve to enjoy the route.

thoughts?

[azdesertfather]

One of the problems with the interwebs (including this site) is that it makes information very easily accessible to the laziest of society. I love the availability of information, but I think that frequently, some of the "unknown" trails, historic sites, caves, etc. are then "found" and visited by people who don't have the same respect for them as the people who work harder to find them.

The people who personally explore, buy books, maps, and other resources as research for their personal hobby are more likely to respect and take care of those gems than somebody who does a google search before packing up the pickup with a few cases of beer and a dozen friends.

The usefulness of a community of like-minded people sharing their experiences is an excellent resource for others with similar interests, and one that is very valuable indeed. Unfortunately, the downside is that those experiences get shared with EVERYBODY, not just the people with similar interests.

For that reason, my personal preference is to leave only vague references to the hidden gems in the public domain. The true fans will figure it out, the others won't.

I agree. Look what's happened to places like the the Railroad Tunnel up on the rim...or Verde Hot Springs, which is now mostly a cesspool. I almost didn't post the gem I found on the Navajo Nation a month or so ago, but then I googled it and found that someone on another site had posted it and its coordinates, so I figured that cat was already out of the bag.

[PaleoRob]

I almost didn't post the gem I found on the Navajo Nation a month or so ago, but then I googled it and found that someone on another site had posted it and its coordinates, so I figured that cat was already out of the bag.

That's another example of what I was talking about. While out of the way and seldom visited, it is promoted by a couple tour companies and is named on the USGS topo, so I figure it was fair game to post.

[jkern15674]

I think that the "secrets" WERE great fun, I personally had spent many days out in the wilderness searching for "secret canyons" at home studying topo maps looking for the canyons and ways to get into and out of "secret canyons." The joy and elation that me and my comrades felt when we found out that we had indeed uncovered a "secret canyon" and descended it cannot be duplicated. And I had only found a handful of them, but now that a book has been published any yahoo without doing any homework can go out and bag these canyons...FOR SHAME.

[Jeffshadows]

I think that the "secrets" WERE great fun, I personally had spent many days out in the wilderness searching for "secret canyons" at home studying topo maps looking for the canyons and ways to get into and out of "secret canyons." The joy and elation that me and my comrades felt when we found out that we had indeed uncovered a "secret canyon" and descended it cannot be duplicated. And I had only found a handful of them, but now that a book has been published any yahoo without doing any homework can go out and bag these canyons...FOR SHAME.

This trend is going to accelerate, folks. You should hear the mountain bike crowd going at it over these same issues around a table at happy hour. All of the outdoor activities have seen an upswing in interest over the last five years. Fifteen years ago I could go to Windy Point and see the same four groups beside myself up there climbing from week to week. Incidentally, they would be the same guys/gals at Rocks & Ropes each week, etc. Now, there's hundreds of groups up there on a good weekend possessing varying degrees of experience and competence.

On another, related note: I have one or two hikes that I haven't posted because they genuinely qualify as YDS III's and I have no interest in handing a guaranteed trip to the hospital to an inexperienced mountaineer. One of them starts right in the foothills of town, and is even popular with folks who want that kind of challenge. The safety aspect is something that cannot be discounted; but, in the end, who am I to judge the abilities of those who stumble upon the write-up, right? It's a tough question...

[SuperstitionGuy]

Let Everyone Know? - NO! Save such secrets for yourself unless it will benefit the safety of others. Sharing with another HAZ hiker (through a PM) that will appreciate the sancitity of a particular site is ok as well.

[ssk44]

A true secret is known by nobody but the beholder. Do the right thing. Share a little or I guarantee your secret will be another man's income in due time. If you can't do that, then shut your trap. Bare in mind this is very difficult for the weak minded as true joy becomes diluted with greed.

Very well said Joe! I have been in some very amazing locations over the years that likely have not seen more than two people over a ten year period but the reality is that pretty much every where I have been has had someone there before me. This state has been here allot longer than me. When I started actively using this site I was very torn over listing "New Hikes" that are for the most part hidden gems that have yet to be spoiled by heavy use. The fact of the madder is that while rooting through existing hikes within the HAZ database, I found that remote hikes stay remote. There are hikes that have had maybe one triplog added within three years of being on the site. The new hikes that I have already listed and those that I plan on adding over the next year will likely have only a few if any members actually go to the locations. A remote and difficult location usually stays that way because most people only want to do something comfortable and easy. Whether the location is accessed by a 4x4 road or a hiking trial, if its rough and rugged enough it will typically say unspoiled. Any place that is easily accessed is no secret. This state has so many rugged and remote areas that there will always be someplace to go and get away from the masses if your willing to put in the extra effect and go beyond your comfort zone. I can't remember how many time I have been someplace amazing and though to myself how great it would be to actually have someone else to share the location with. Having secret locations can be very lonely. Life is short and frankly I don't know when my time will come to pass. Sharing a special and remote place within a community like HAZ has a very satisfying quality that cannot be obtained by trying to greedily hide everything. The only individuals that would go to a location that I would list on HAZ are typically responsible backcountry hikers that have great respect the land and would likely leave no trace that they were ever there. Why should I try and hide a remote place from those that would never consider damaging it?

[te_wa]

i only have a few "secret places" that I have enjoyed over the years. I am finally going to share these hidden gems with the fine HAZ members, once and for all. The first secret place is a little used trail right in the heart of Phoenix called Squaw Peak. Second, a nice bit of solitude can be had any time of year on the Peralta Trail to Fremont saddle.

now, dont go and blab to everyone you know, lets keep these places to ourselves...

[Jeffshadows]

i only have a few "secret places" that I have enjoyed over the years. I am finally going to share these hidden gems with the fine HAZ members, once and for all. The first secret place is a little used trail right in the heart of Phoenix called Squaw Peak. Second, a nice bit of solitude can be had any time of year on the Peralta Trail to Fremont saddle.

now, dont go and blab to everyone you know, lets keep these places to ourselves...

baugh!!

[chumley]

Squaw Peak

Squaw Peak? Never heard of it. It's not even on my beautiful new 2008 map of Phoenix. :roll:

[Jeffshadows]

i only have a few "secret places" that I have enjoyed over the years. I am finally going to share these hidden gems with the fine HAZ members, once and for all. The first secret place is a little used trail right in the heart of Phoenix called Squaw Peak. Second, a nice bit of solitude can be had any time of year on the Peralta Trail to Fremont saddle.

now, dont go and blab to everyone you know, lets keep these places to ourselves...

baugh!!

This reminds me of the little old lady who stopped me on my way out of Pima canyon one time and asked: "Did you know that there's a dam back in there?"

[fricknaley]

Sharing a special and remote place within a community like HAZ has a very satisfying quality that cannot be obtained by trying to greedily hide everything. The only individuals that would go to a location that I would list on HAZ are typically responsible backcountry hikers that have great respect the land and would likely leave no trace that they were ever there. Why should I try and hide a remote place from those that would never consider damaging it?

very well said.

[nonot]

If a trip is told to me in confidence, I will keep it that way. If it is one I find myself, I will probably write it up seeing as noone tends to hike the ones I post anyways