Red Rock Pass - neccessary evil?

[te_wa]

this is what I wrote to a friend in a PM and Im awaiting a response... just in case, does anyone know the exact intricacies of this dreaded Red Rock Pass?
regarding the Dogie Trail to Taylor Cabin in Sycamore canyon Wilderness:

"im using the Coconino Natl Forest map as printed by the US forest service, official liturature.
The only thing I can assume by the Red Rock pass is that 'they' assume that if you park a vehicle that you are going to enter the Red Rock wilderness* (by foot or horse)
this trail goes nowhere near their boundary even if they (red rock rangers) are responsible for upkeep of the road, trailhead, and any amenities found therein. (dont know about what if any amenities are there)

it is also my understanding that you dont need a Red Rock pass for entering the wilderness on foot or by horseback. since no road either paved or gravel enters that wilderness (unless a rancher's right of way) then a) the entire red rock pass is illegal and it states so right on the pass!
b) so what difference is there if I park 17 miles outside of the wilderness and then walk into it, or I park 17 inches off the wilderness and then walk into it?
I would take any dissagreement with this logic to court. it would probably be dismissed with a simple written letter to the court proper.

do you agree with any of this?"

[chumley]

there is nothing american about Bud. Anheuser-Busch is now owned by Inbev, a Belgian company. For chrissake nobody knows why Inbev who exports dozens of tasty, worthy brews would have any interest in watered-down panther piss. They must have secretly (not a secret, really) been after Modelo, who in their own right makes some good beers.

Unless, Inbev is awaiting the outcome of the dismantling of Labor Unions, (in which miller is entertwined- being the only union company left) so it can have a monopoly on american beer sales. (coors doesnt really count for much, about 6% of all american beer sales)
one could only wish that Inbev would dump August Busch IV as director and proceed with forcing hillbillies, for once, to drink tasty beer.
Drinking Bud Light in my opinion, is like eating plain ramen noodles. I prefer steak and lobster, thank you very much.

InBev bought A-B for Budweiser. Somehow, (and this perplexes me) Budweiser is the best selling beer on the planet. You can go to virtually any bar in any country absolutely anywhere and if they have two beers on tap, one of them is going to be Budweiser. Pisswater it may be, but I'm betting its pretty [haz doesn't like me using the word dam*n] profitable for them.

And as for American beers, if its not an A-B (InBev) product, then it's probably a product of MolsonCoors (which also owns Miller). The largest "independents" out there are Sierra Nevada, Sam Adams, New Belgium (Fat Tire).

And I don't know why, but I can drink 15 Bud Lights and wake up at sunrise and run a marathon, but if I drink 3 PBRs, I'll have a headache until the next afternoon. Go figure.

[te_wa]

the exact opposite for me! but i rarely drink more than 3-4 beers at one time. quality not quantity my friend
I have been to New Zealand, several Caribbean sea Islands, a couple in the S. Pacific, and deep Mexico. Ive never seen Bud products on tap there... Im possibly going to Japan next year, it would be a more likely place to see Bud. I think its Kirin Ichiban that is a Anheuser product. Maybe its Asahi (also american owned?)
anyway, the whole point of this rant was to wonder why it is that I regularly see Bud Light cans in fire pits, in bushes, along the road, etc... far far more than any other brand. A numbers thing, i suppose...

i think i remember something in the old thread on the red rock pass subject talking about the possibility of being an "enabler" in the sense that some will consider "i paid for this pass so the rangers would pick up trash, so throwing a bottle or wrapper isnt a big deal"

[hippiepunkpirate]

Man, I sound like a Red Rock Pass advocate. I'm not. I'm just saying, if $20 keeps you from getting tickets and dealing with rangers for a year, then just do it! Remember though, the pass isn't valid at West Fork/Call of the Canyon parking area.

I agree...$20 isn't a ton of money to spend with the hope that it might go toward the National Forest be kept better. A $40 grand annual pass is available that gets you into Call of the Canyon, Crescent Moon, Grasshopper Point and Banjo Bill.

[Jim]

I see the $20/year as symbolic more than actually helping to improve trail conditions, especially since the urban buzz is that about half of that fee goes to administrative costs. Its very little money though, so I can spare it. The day and week passes are probably the most significant passes for raising money from tourists. They made the year passes so cheap in a relative way that I think they should have the option of a lifetime pass for $50 or something like that. I would buy one, and after 3 years it would pay for itself. It could get lost or stolen, but so too could your year pass.
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