Chedeski charges?

CindyC · Post by **CindyC** » Jul 18 2002 4:32 pm

Did I understand this correctly? The woman that started the Chedeski fire is not being charged with anything? Lost for three days or not, wasn't she in an area that was closed? Say it isn't so.

sherrealest · Post by **sherrealest** » Jul 19 2002 1:25 am

Yes, but she wasn't there for pleasure or as a hiker. She and her companion had taken a wrong turn and were hopelessly lost. After several calls to the forest service they were out of gas and her cell phone had gone dead. They spent they night in the truck and the next day she tried to find higher ground to get a signal on the phone. She become more lost and couldn't find her way back to the truck. After 3 days with no food or water, alone in the forest she spotted a helicopter and tried to signal it by lighting a small bush. The helicopter came in for a rescue and fanned the fire which now was ablaze. She did what she had to do to survive. What would you have done? I think I might have done the same thing. Remember she is not a hiker. She was not equiped with anything but a lighter. I am sorry about the fire but can understand why it happened and it does not add up to criminal behavior.

jeremy77777 · Post by **jeremy77777** » Jul 19 2002 5:27 am

I guess you have to ask yourself, what would I do?. Well, I sure wouldn't have done that, but I am a certified survivalist so I probably could have lasted months out there. But she's is city folk and didn't know no betta

CindyC · Post by **CindyC** » Jul 19 2002 6:33 am

Her story was told a little more in depth on the news last night. That's a hard call and one I'm glad wasn't mine to make. It's hard not to think of the devastation this fire caused. What would I do? When I was 16 a friend of mine and I turned ourselves around while hiking in Colo. . We didn't have a clue where we screwed up and basicaly wandered around until we came across another hiker. We didn't think to start a fire, but then again we had each other. Maybe my judgement was a little harsh.

sherrealest · Post by **sherrealest** » Jul 19 2002 9:56 am

I'm glad you and your friend made it out of you Co hike OK. But again, she was not on a hike but a stranded motorist. A housewife, a person without experience, preparation nor had she made a choice to be out in the wilderness. She was stranded alone frightened. People, hikers, that have at least some experience and preparation die in Arizona wilderness areas all the time. We all hear it on the news. I imagine she did not want to be one of them. My husband and I use a GPS. But I am adding a signal mirror to my hike equipment. I certainly do not want to be the cause of a forest fire. (If you read the lost article on this web site, a fire is a recomended method of signal if lost on a hike) Nor would I want to be the object of a witch hunt. I feel for everyone. But this is really no different than if the driver of the truck swerved, left the road and the wreckage caused the fire. They had a horrible accident and the victims were every one that will visit that area for years to come, the owners of the land and homes that were destroyed but this is an enlightened era and as educated lovers of the wilderness we must remember humans are part of our ecosystem to be valued every bit as much as our trees and animals. I'm glad that she did not perish in this horrible accident.

CindyC · Post by **CindyC** » Jul 19 2002 10:28 am

The more I think about it the more I feel that what she is going to be feeling for the rest of her life is going to be more than anyone deserves.

olesma · Post by **olesma** » Jul 19 2002 1:03 pm

Cindy Coons wrote:The more I think about it the more I feel that what she is going to be feeling for the rest of her life is going to be more than anyone deserves.

For someone with a concience - that is more than true.

When I was younger (14 I think) I was caught in the act of shoplifting while on a band trip to DisneyWorld. All the details are unimportant - suffice it to say it was the one and only time I ever did anything like that (put it off to peer pressure). I was in a LOT of trouble and nearly got expelled from school. I thought my dad was going to throw the book at me. But he didn't. I'll never forget his reasons either.

He told me, "The punishment the school is giving you, plus the humiliation you'll get from your classmates and the knowledge that what you did was wrong, and that I'm very dissappointed in you - that's a far worse punishment than I could ever give you."

He was absolutely correct.

CindyC · Post by **CindyC** » Jul 19 2002 1:19 pm

That's exactly the way my father raised me. He never punished me per say but I always felt the responsibility (and a heck of alot of guilt) of what I did was mine to bear. I have raised my children the same way. At times I think they would rather I just 'throw the book at them'.

BoyNhisDog · Post by **BoyNhisDog** » Jul 19 2002 4:44 pm

Criminal charges are only part of the equation. There could be so many civil charges that she will be destroyed monetarily and perhaps worse for the rest of her life. Her act of saving herself ended up destroying an awful lot of animal life and property even if it was not malicious. She is not "out of the woods" yet. It will be interesting to see what becomes of her.

CindyC · Post by **CindyC** » Jul 19 2002 4:54 pm

If I understand correctly she could be charged with misdemeanor trespassing.

jeremy77777 · Post by **jeremy77777** » Jul 19 2002 5:31 pm

She could. She was tresspassing on injun' territory. But getting lost is getting lost. I lost my cabin to the fire, but I don't blame her a bit for what she did. I have been lost before. It was my first time. I was lost for three days and nights out in the woods in the middle of nowhere. (Wasatch Mountains, Utah to be exact ) It was the scariest situation I had ever been in up to that point in my life. I didn't know too much about survival. I kept thinking in my head (during the long hours of the night) about all the people I remembered hearing about who died out in the wilderness. Your mind starts to play tricks on you. All you can think about is how to survive and you WILL do anything to acomplish it. I guess that's just the nature of the beast. I am a little too informed about wilderness survival now. It took that bad experience to get me to learn more about how to survive. I would recomend that everyone take a course or read about it sometime. :idea:

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Jul 19 2002 5:59 pm

The pivotal question is did the forest service adequately block access

I have several e-mails from folks asking about hikes in closed areas well after they were closed. In fact there are post on this board from folks mentioning their weekend plans in which somebody knowing the forest were closed stepped in and said such. It'll won't be difficult for a lawyer to prove the point on not knowing the forest was closed.

So back to the pivotal question. Was the road blocked off or posted closed?

If it was, she's guilty. Don't agree? Hello! if the forest is closed for "extreme fire danger" and it's posted, 8O , your guilty.

However, I don't think it was posted.

Here's two photos from June 5th

http://hikearizona.com/t2002/dated/0605 ... 02-002.jpg

http://hikearizona.com/t2002/dated/0605 ... 02-004.jpg

CindyC · Post by **CindyC** » Jul 19 2002 6:08 pm

I was wondering that too. I was up in Payson 3 weeks before the fires started and you couldn't go down any roads. They were all taped off. A friend of mine was working up there and he normally camps to save on motel costs. He couldn't camp anywhere other than the Houston Mesa for fee campground. He went to Bear Flat and couldn't get farther than a quarter mile before being stopped. Only residents were allowed beyond that spot. It was basically the highway or no way. So it did cross my mind, 'how did they end up where they were?' :roll:

evenstarx3 · Post by **evenstarx3** » Jul 19 2002 6:23 pm

I've read a couple of reports that say she asked the 'copter crew to put out the fire and they told her they'd reported it and it would be taken care of. Certainly, if true, shows her concern. And I gotta say the 'copter crew screwed up!

sherrealest · Post by **sherrealest** » Jul 19 2002 6:30 pm

I agree with Cindy that this poor lady will suffer far more at her own hand than anyone deserves. The news tonight said that she is a single mother with 3 children. She has little to no financial resources and the cost of waging civil penalties would far out way her ability to pay. In essence they would get nothing but the satisfaction of further inflicting pain. I would hope that people will calm down and accept that sometimes things happen and move on with their lives. I hope Valinda can do the same.

jeremy77777 · Post by **jeremy77777** » Jul 19 2002 7:11 pm

After talking and doing some research, I have came to the conclusion that, nobody can take full responsibility. There were too many factors that led up to this disaster. We could blame mother nature for not giving us rain, enviromentalists for not allowing the forest service to do their job, the lady for setting a signal fire, the chopper crew for not securing the area before taking off, the fire officials for not getting to the small blaze fast enough, the indian officials for turning away the rim firefighters when they offered to help put it out when it was small, the indian that started the blaze cause he was a pyro, and the list goes on forever. The truth of the matter is, this state had it coming. Too many factors and nobody to do anything about it. :verymad:

AZHiker · Post by **AZHiker** » Jul 19 2002 11:12 pm

Sorry guys, I don't buy all of this hanky wringing I read in the above posts.

Something is fishy with her story:

1. Anybody who has been on the Young road knows that it is not possible to get lost. It is a major (though unpaved) road, with plenty of traffic. How did they get 'lost' on it? This has not been answered yet.

2. She changed her story several times, one was that she and her 'boss' went hiking. Say what? In flip-flops and a halter top, and no water? I don't think so. The other was that they were going to Young on a business trip. If so, they would have had a map or something to find Young, unless of course they were there before. If so, again, how did they get lost on a well marked road?

3. Where was her male companion all this time? We hear nothing of him. Why didn't he go for help also? or did he just stay with the car. Why did he let her go for help with no water and wearing flip-flops?

4. In her TV debut this morning she said that the fire was very small...she cupped her hands to show the size. If so, how did the 'copter crew see her, and why didn't she or the 'copter crew put it out? I think that they are covering for one another.

I am not suggesting that she started the fire maliciously, but she was responsible for not putting it out if what she said on TV was true. Nope. I'm not buying her story, and I think that civil charges should be brought against her by the people who lost property. She caused incredible devestation and should be held accountable.

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Jul 19 2002 11:30 pm

AZHiker wrote:I think that civil charges should be brought against her by the people who lost property. She caused incredible devestation and should be held accountable.

We would definitely benifit from knowing the real details.

As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong - I'm very open!) She immediately let the two guys in chopper know about the fire, as if they didn't already see it. The fire was small and contained to a bush for about two hours. But the Reservation didn't allow immediate action to be taken.
Then I'd be sending a bill in part to the reservation.

Something is missing though. Business trip? Waitress?

A couple years ago... West of the valley. Three guys, (I think) were out off roading in a creekbed. They got stuck. Lit a fire to be rescued and...
Weren't they fined?

I don't wish to slam this lady just for the sake of resolution. I've flip flopped back and forth with the details available.

CindyC · Post by **CindyC** » Jul 20 2002 7:27 am

A friend of mine who has a ranch in Young agrees with you AZHiker. He's wondering how you can get lost on the road to Young.

kurthzone · Post by **kurthzone** » Jul 23 2002 1:00 pm

teva wrote:I've flip flopped back and forth...

teva uses flip-flops!