Off Trail Dope Search

[HAZ_Hikebot]

We have all heard the stories of hikers stumbling across illegal dope grows out in the national forest, the Mexican Cartels, and the 'no go' areas of CA. These drug growers damage the forest, poach wildlife, and have been known to shoot hikers who happen across them. An article in USA Today, Aug 19, told that the latest CA fire was started by the Cartel boys while cooking dinner at one of their grows. As an environmentalist, it pisses me off that this is happening in our public lands.

We hikers can help keep our national forests safe by reporting grow sites and suspicious activity to the authorities. I found a grow two years ago in the Matazals, a quarter mile east of the Arizona Trail near a popular Boy Scout Camp site. So, M-16 toting illegal aliens are that close to your kids out there. No better reason to shut them down. I do not advocate others to go out looking for grows; but it is fun for those of us with nothing to lose, hiking off trail in the manzanita, seeing remotest of places.


I was wondering if there are any others in the club who like to go 'hunting', and if anyone has any tips or suggestions to help out. The best places to look are around reliable water sources, like springs, wells, creeks,etc. However, there are just so many miles and miles of territory out there to search, even with aids like sat maps and the like, it is difficult to find anything. The Bradshaws have had some busts, as have the Rim area and Matazals. Gila County is also a good area. This weekend will be a hike along the feeder streams of Cherry Creek, just east of the Sierra Anchas.

Lets keep the comments on topic and not about the question of legalization of marijuana, or whether getting stoned is a good idea or not. There is plenty of material here in which to bash or ridicule without the aid of those tired arguments. Yes, the mission is potentially dangerous, but not any more dangerous than walking through South Phoenix after dark. Besides, the odds of finding a grow are about zero unless you put in a bunch of miles intelligently.

Here is a pic of the trash left behind at the Matazal grow site. Thousands of starter dixie cups, plastic bird netting, a bone yard of poached wildlife, fertilizer bags, irrigation equiment, shoes, clothes, tortilla wrappers, Miracle Grow, etc. etc. Basically, the same trash you find at Organ Pipe National Monument or anywhere near the human trafficking routes.

[Jim]

That huge fire near Santa Barbara in CA is probably a Pot Growers mistake, or revenge.

[HAZ_Hikebot]

The article said that the growers were cooking with a iron stove that sent some coals or embers into the trees. It did not go much into details, other than it was the of the source of the fire. I doubt the fire was set on purpose because it cost them their whole crop, now four months into it.

[Jeffshadows]

Interesting. We ran into something last year that just looked like a lay-up for illegals, but we thought it was odd that it was as high as it was in the mountains near the border. Maybe it was a grow site. The area would have been conducive...

[te_wa]

i can almost promise you, a highly educated guess at least, that the pot farmers of the Mazzie's are growing in the western range, trails you can access by Sheeps Bridge.
1) Sheep's bridge access is difficult, rarely sees humans
2)the trails over there are rarely travelled
3)western, sunlight facing canyons
4)lotsa springs along those old shepherding routes
5)on the extreme northern end of Maricopa county, and difficult foot access, and thousands of acres unreachable by $40,000 Ford pickups

[HAZ_Hikebot]

awsome tip, Te-wa. I did a search out there in the western Matazal Wilderness a few years ago, near Bull Springs. I can attest that, it is about as far away from a road that one can get in this state. What is better, Wet Bottom Creek and Houston Creek have reliable water. Nobody ever goes out there, I mean nobody. That creek is full of mud turtles and wild critters, and it even has some huge elk, living on the fringe of the desert to ripe old ages. There is a hunting cabin at Bull Springs, but I doubt many folks hunt the herd along Houston Creek.

The forest service thought it a good place to grow dope as well, searching the East Verde and feeder streams with a helicopter for grow sites. They saw me camped out in the middle of nowhere, on at weekday, and found it quite suspicious. It would have been funny to have run away as they hovered overhead, and I must admit, the thought went through my mind. However, it would not have been funny when they unleashed the dogs on me, though. That helicopter went up and down every wash within 10 miles of my camp. Guess my friendly wave was not very convincing. Ha!

I spent most of my weekend excursions last year in the Bradshaws, south of Prescott down to Lake Pleasant. You are right, there are tons of springs in those hills, many of which have been improved by the old sheep and cattle men. Manzanita country is a bear to hump through, as you know, it is especially nasty in there. Sheep ranching is about the only good use I can think of for such country, it would clear out the excess overgrowth and help the ecosystem. They should bring the sheep back.

[joebartels]

and have been known to shoot hikers who happen across them

anybody in Arizona?

[HAZ_Hikebot]

Yes, a couple of years ago they shot at a forest service ranger. He shot back and killed a one of the growers, who was a Mexican national. Back up came in about three hours later...A helicopter full of SWAT guys. The incident made it on a SWAT television program on cable, which profiled it on their show; kind of like the show COPS.

There was a really cool guy working in the BLM public room who told me about it as well. He knew everything that was going on out there; too bad they let him go. The best and most competent are always the first to get the ax when it comes to government jobs.

[joebartels]

Ah yes, I vaguely remember that, where was it at? Organ Pipe?

The quote was about hikers, any hikers in Arizona or just cali thus far?

[HAZ_Hikebot]

None in AZ that I have heard.

The forest service ranger was tipped off by some hikers, and when he investigated, he got ambushed. Three guys had M-16 full autos, but somehow the ranger took one out with his pistol and sent them running. The other two guys 'escaped into the woods', as per usual. They said it was in a remote area of Gila County, but did not elaborate. The area was in pinion pine/juniper type forest, probably about 5000 ft elevation or so.

[JimmyLyding]

When we did the South Fork (of Deer Creek)-Gold Ridge loop in the Mazatzals last winter we ran into a couple of hose reels hanging off of trees right next to the trail up South Fork. Didn't stick around very long to figure out what's what.
On a related note my roommate and I ran into a Tonto NF ranger on Mount Ord back in February, and he was strapped. He had an AR-15 and a 12-guage in the front seat, and a very large K-9 unit in the back of his truck. I don't think he was looking out for unruly hikers. Truly a sobering experience that a forest ranger had to pack that kind of heat along with a very intimidating K-9 unit.
Bearing Down on NOT running into any pakololo growers in the Pinals on Friday

[nonot]

I've talked to at least one reputable guy who says that deer hunters get into shootouts with the pot farmers occasionally out in the areas around Payson/Rye Creek, so yes, I imagine they'd shoot at hikers too.

[azbackpackr]

I'm not even sure I should tell this story online, except maybe in a private message. I'll just leave out all the names and organization. Here goes: Someone I know was leading teenagers on a backpacking trip last year near Cherry Creek, hiking those drainages out there, and they went to the area a couple of times. One time they were confronted by a guy who basically told them to go away, yelled at them, told them they "shouldn't be hiking in this area." Not sure why they went back to that area a week or two later, but they did, and they found themselves backpacking right through a really big, ripe patch. Thousands of plants, he told me, all over 6 feet tall. He said it was just flippin' amazing. After setting up camp about 3 miles away, one of the teens snuck back with a garbage bag and tried to steal some. Supposedly he was shot at, ran back to camp, extremely upset and crying, and the camp leader decided to go ahead and report the patch. After that, he said there were "feds dressed up like hunters" sneaking around in the woods. I don't think they got the growers, though, but they removed the patch. When the camp leader went back months later to see what was left he told me it was a real mess, with trash everywhere, etc. There was still some bud remaining here and there, but it was kind of moldy, and there were some baby plants growing up after spring rains.

There are lots of areas where people don't go. Find a drainage with no trail, bushwhack up it.

[Jeffshadows]

This was almost seventeen years ago, but we encountered a grower in the Gila Wilderness. We came around a ridge from this stream bed where all of the tree bottoms were whittled away by beaver only to stumble into a guy that looked like the UNABOMBER standing in front of his little make-shift lean-to and a large field of "plants" growing in the rich silt. It looked like he had been out there for decades. He was probably the biggest beatnik I've ever seen and looked like the type of guy that would run and pray to Jah before doing anything that required aggression, if you know what I mean. He was a good fifty miles into the backcountry from the nearest ranch so it was probably a good spot for what he had going on.

I've run into people up to "something" many times being out in the wilds. My old climbing partner and I chased after a guy in a van who was out in the middle of Prison Camp on Lemmon taking pictures of a child, once. As we approached we didn't think much of it...just figuring it was a guy taking pics of his kid in his Scout uniform for x-mas cards or whatever. But, as we got closer, he freaked out and threw a blanket over the kid and tossed the kid back into the van and hauled bacon off away from us. We ran after and got the plate and gave it to the LEO Ranger we ran into coming down (This was before the advent of cell phones). A year or so later I was camped out at Hitchcock after some climbs and being too tired to drive down. I had the only space that was left, which was a crappy one right near the parking lot. Some yahoos came in about 2200 and pulled out a couple of camp stoves and then proceeded to spend the rest of the night laboring over those stoves and running their mouths as they drank beer after beer. They finally left at about 0400 and I got an hour of sleep, but never did see what they were doing out there all night long...I probably don't want to know.

As to the question of the cartel growers shooting at hikers...I've heard two stories. I heard one from a guy in the local Sierra Club chapter about a group hiking near Brush Corrals on the back side of Lemmon who decided to try to go to the San Pedro for water (or something) and ran smack into a grow site hidden in the tamarisk down there. For whatever reason they decided to help themselves and someone came out yelling in Spanish and firing an "Ak-47" in the air. My guess is that most people who would be interested in stealing grass for personal use have no idea what an "AK-47" is, nor what the difference between its report and that of a pistol would be. They supposedly reported the whole thing to the Sheriff's office and the site was supposedly burned. All of this was supposed to have gone down around 1998. I still think this story is bogus, but I've heard different variations of it over the years down here and it's starting to become branded into local folklore. Go to Rocks and Ropes and ask about it and I'm sure you'll hear five different versions, etc. ;)

This second story was confirmed by a couple of firefighter-paramedics and a PCSD deputy I know. Allegedly, some guys wandering around near Happy Valley on the back side of the Rincons looking for a cave stumbled upon a trailer out in the middle of nowhere with the windows all blacked out, etc; and with a blinged-out Escalade sitting outside. That right there would have been cause enough for me to turn around and beat feet, but who knows...I guess they thought the cave was under the trailer. They wandered off into the hills behind the trailer and came back past it at dusk, only to run into a couple of guys wearing "gas masks" and loading "stuff" out of the trailer into the Escalade. One pulled a pistol and opened fire on them. They scattered and both managed to wander back into their campsite near the Miller trailhead and call the police. PCSD came and met them and they showed the deputies where the trailer was. It was a meth lab that had been in operation for quite some time, apparently.

[big_load]

I try not to let my hiking plans be distorted by criminals, but I don't go out looking for trouble either.

[chumley]

OK ... Trouble starts here :guilty:

Since I've read more than a few posts from HAZ members who perhaps enjoy partaking in this particular plant ... and I know some non-hikers who seem to benefit from it, wouldn't this whole "problem" go away and everybody would be happy if it was just legalized already?

[te_wa]

Lets keep the comments on topic and not about the question of legalization of marijuana, or whether getting stoned is a good idea or not. There is plenty of material here in which to bash or ridicule without the aid of those tired arguments.

[JimmyLyding]

From the Tucson Weekly April 9, 2009:
Cannabis Cultivation
U.S. Forest Service land is increasingly fertile ground for pot plants grown by Mexican cartels
by Leo W. Banks

Marijuana grows in the Tonto National Forest near Payson.
Media references to Mexican drug cartels are invariably followed by some variation of the phrase "spill over into this country." Those five words are key to the flak currently being sent up by the federal government—most recently by Janet Napolitano, former Arizona governor and now head of the Department of Homeland Security.

She wants you to believe the feds have a plan to respond should Mexican cartel violence "spill over into this country."

Spill over? It's already here, in our border communities, as well as in the 230 cities across the nation where the cartels are active. The wave of home invasions in Tucson and the kidnappings in Phoenix aren't the result of Tupperware parties gone bad.

Even our public lands are being hit, especially in the Tonto National Forest around Payson, 90 miles northeast of Phoenix.

Between 2006 and 2008, the Gila County Narcotics Task Force took down 43 pot farms, eradicating 82,904 marijuana plants, says Task Force commander Johnny Sanchez. All but a handful were on Tonto land.

All of the farms larger than 1,000 plants were apparently operated by Mexican drug organizations. The workers are usually Mexican nationals brought across the border for that purpose. They might arrive at a grow site in April and live there until harvest in October.

These men are considered "high-value assets," according to a Forest Service criminal investigator who asked for anonymity. They're generally from rural, marijuana-growing areas in Mexico, such as Michoacán, which means they're experienced in the drug trade and capable of surviving outdoors.

But at harvest time, the cartel acquires additional workers, sometimes by kidnapping them off the streets of Phoenix and hauling them to Payson to work off smuggling debts. Others are brought across the border on the promise that they'll be set up with some unnamed job. They're driven out to the forest and—only then—told of their new "employment." The forest investigator says these "farm workers" are often armed. Gunfire has erupted in the Tonto at least twice.

In September 2005, bear hunters approached a pot farm along Deer Creek, in the Mazatzal Wilderness, and were fired upon by cartel guards. The hunters returned fire and retreated to notify police.

The following year, a Forest Service tactical team raided a site in the same area and took fire from a guard carrying a semiautomatic rifle. Two men were arrested, and one escaped. The rifleman, a Mexican national who was shot in the abdomen, was eventually sentenced to 18 years in prison.

The investigator worries about possible encounters in which ordinary Americans trying to enjoy the outdoors could accidentally walk into trouble.

"If you're a hiker or a hunter carrying a gun, and you stumble into one of these areas, and they mistake you for somebody else, shooting can easily erupt," says the investigator. "I wish I could tell you it's not dangerous, but I can't."

In 2007, officers found a grow site a mile and a half from a Boy Scout camp 12 miles north of Payson. A Scout leader out hiking spotted the marijuana and notified police.

Cartel workers live in camps consisting of canvas tarps for shelter or branch lean-tos set against a canyon wall. They eat rice and beans cooked on camping stoves and get resupplied by men who march in with backpacks full of provisions.

The farms, usually at ravine bottoms or on hillsides, are irrigated by gravity-fed piping systems connected to natural springs or waterfalls as much as 5 miles away.

"These areas are so remote, it kicks our butts to get into them, and they usually hear us coming," says Sanchez, adding that guards sometimes rig access trails with trip wire strung with spoons or cans that rattle when disturbed.

So far, Arizona lawmen have not encountered booby traps, as has happened in California's national forests. About 57 percent of all marijuana grown on American public land originates there, according to the Office of National Drug Control Policy.

In July 2007, John Walters, then head of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, told the Washington Times: "America's public lands are under attack. Instead of being appreciated as national treasures, they are being exploited and destroyed by foreign drug-trafficking organizations and heavily armed Mexican marijuana cartels."

The Sequoia National Forest, in California's Sierra Nevada Mountains, 350 miles from the border, has been a dangerous battlefield in the drug war. In August 2008, Walters visited Sequoia and said law enforcement had eradicated 420,000 marijuana plants in that forest in the previous eight years.

The first pot farms at Sequoia were discovered in 1998. The first raids on cartel-run grow sites in Tonto occurred in 2002.

But they've been found on other Arizona public lands as well. The Forest Service investigator said the Coconino Forest, around Flagstaff, eradicated 4,200 plants in 2008.

No farms have been discovered in the Kaibab Forest above Grand Canyon. "But we had a dramatic increase in activity last year in Southern Utah," says the investigator. "If they're in Southern Utah, they're probably in Kaibab, too."

No farms have been discovered in Southern Arizona's Coronado Forest, either, due to the lack of water, says Keith Graves, former district ranger in Nogales, now border liaison between the forest and the federal Secure Border Initiative.

The Tonto gets hit hard because of its proximity to Phoenix, where drug organizations thrive. It also has good water sources; Highway 260, which cuts through the forest, makes for easy re-supply.

One advantage of growing marijuana in the United States is that it bypasses border security. But U.S.-grown pot also draws a heftier price because it's often a better grade. "And they're less likely to have to deal with competing smuggling organizations, so it's cheaper," says the forest service investigator.

But the farms take a big toll on the environment. Cartel workers cut down trees and brush, causing erosion, and divert streams to access water. They leave behind piles of trash, as well as human waste and even banned pesticides smuggled up from Mexico that can wash into streams after rains.

Task Force Commander Sanchez, who has worked narcotics enforcement for 20 years, expects the problem to eventually "spill over" onto the San Carlos and White Mountain Apache reservations, as well as other reservations well beyond the Tonto.

"I don't think this will slow down," he says. "We're not winning the war on drugs, I can tell you that."

[Jeffshadows]

Yea, I remember reading that a while back. I think the San Pedro story popped up in the comments section of the online version...

[ankaa]

Back in 06 a friend and I were driving up to hike Mt. Peeley. When we got near the upper trailhead area for Gold Ridge/South Fork, we were turned around by a couple dozen guys in mixed uniforms and camo, They were armed with assault rifles and there were a couple dogs too. They wouldn't tell us what was going on, and they seemed pretty busy so we didn't really push the issue. We heard later that a hiker had reported a grow operation in the area, and that when they went in to investigate, some shots were exchanged. Supposedly they either caught or shot one guy and two or more others escaped into the woods.

I don't really consider that area to be very off-the beaten path. I definitly go to much more remote areas.
Croettken66, and everybody else for that matter, be careful out there.