Beauty is skin deep, but stupid goes to the bone...

[hikeaz]

Grand Canyon National Park (AZ)
Hikers Evacuated After Three SPOT Activations In Three Days

On the evening of September 23rd, rangers began a search for hikers who repeatedly activated their rented SPOT satellite tracking device. The GEOS Emergency Response Center in Houston reported that someone in the group of four hikers – two men and their two teenaged sons – had pressed the "help" button on their SPOT unit. The coordinates for the signal placed the group in a remote section of the park, most likely on the challenging Royal Arch loop. Due to darkness and the remoteness of the location, rangers were unable to reach them via helicopter until the following morning. When found, they'd moved about a mile and a half to a water source. They declined rescue, as they'd activated the device due to their lack of water. Later that same evening, the same SPOT device was again activated, this time using the "911" button. Coordinates placed them less than a quarter mile from the spot where searchers had found them that morning. Once again, nightfall prevented a response by park helicopter, so an Arizona DPS helicopter whose crew utilized night vision goggles was brought in. They found that the members of the group were concerned about possible dehydration because the water they'd found tasted salty, but no actual emergency existed. The helicopter crew declined their request for a night evacuation, but provided them with water before departing. On the following morning, another SPOT "help" activation came in from the group. This time they were flown out by park helicopter. All four refused medical assessment or treatment. The group's leader had reportedly hiked once at the Grand Canyon; the other adult had no Grand Canyon and very little backpacking experience. When asked what they would have done without the SPOT device, the leader stated, "We would have never attempted this hike." The group leader was issued a citation for creating a hazardous condition (36 CFR 2.34(a)(4)).

[dysfunction]

Simple fix... you push the button, you DO get evacuated, and you DO get billed if it's a BS reason.

I do not believe they've ever even billed someone under the "Stupid motorist law". So, while it sounds simple.. it would require enforcement, which doesn't even occur under a current law that requires it.. hrm..

[Jeffshadows]

I know there are people here on HAZ that will probably vehemently disagree, but I think it's high-time we started considering the future of this problem instead of just the past. Technology like this will only grow in the years to come. It won't be long before we have two-way satellite PLB devices readily available or all of the functions of a SPOT come standard on a Garmin unit. In fact, they're already working on it. In a few years the SPOT itself might be as small as a wristwatch and now you'll have trail-runners and all kinds of other users. This stuff is just going to get more popular and ubiquitous.

I

[dysfunction]

I think the only eventual solution is some sort of punitive measures for misuse of these devices. I'd agree that we're only seeing the start of them. I think, perhaps, eventually you'll see them with enough intelligence to be able to state the nature of your emergency too.. which may be cool to reduce 'chums searches'. I'm just unsure of exactly how many of these it will take for this to not only be legislated, but actually be enforced. I don't believe that anyone deserves to die, however, due to their bad luck.. or even incompetence.

[JoelHazelton]

Not only should people be billed for calling for BS reasons, but they should be required to attend and pay for a full length, hands-on wilderness survival course.

[joebartels]

SPOTs are basically at the stage of a pager in the late 80's. Nobody uses a pager anymore. Satellite phones have been dragging for several reasons. Surely in the next ten years something will surface. ie: chew a stick of Googlegum to generate the required 1.21 jigawatts to power your free Google iSat

[Thoreau]

SPOTs are basically at the stage of a pager in the late 80's. Nobody uses a pager anymore. Satellite phones have been dragging for several reasons. Surely in the next ten years something will surface. ie: chew a stick of Googlegum to generate the required 1.21 jigawatts to power your free Google iSat

Perhaps when Google buys out SPOT the resulting product will be the gSpot?

[JoelHazelton]

[writelots]

Perhaps when Google buys out SPOT the resulting product will be the gSpot?

Will people be able to find it then?

[BobP]

It takes a lot of key strokes to find what your looking for sometimes .

[Thoreau]

Perhaps when Google buys out SPOT the resulting product will be the gSpot?

Will people be able to find it then?

Well, the device DOES kinda draw its own map... =)

[dysfunction]

In response to Thoreau:
Only within 3-5m... I have that kind of accuracy now

[Dschur]

People already miss use 911 a lot and I don't see anyone giving the people a fine for asking directions on 911. In the future it will be as available as that then what? It is an interesting problem that is for sure...

[dysfunction]

People already miss use 911 a lot and I don't see anyone giving the people a fine for asking directions on 911. In the future it will be as available as that then what? It is an interesting problem that is for sure...

the only problem with this is that dialing 911 for directions, or the current time, does not dispatch the sheriffs office to your house. Now, if your say... 2 year old picks up the phone.. dials 911 and in your exasperation you yell at the child to put that phone down NOW.. well, lets just say they WILL be at your house in minutes

thankfully a friend of mine discovered that, not me

[JimmyLyding]

Perhaps when Google buys out SPOT the resulting product will be the gSpot?

Will people be able to find it then?

I have a feeling that this thread will now end up being longer than the 'nude hiking,' and 'best mexican food in globe' threads.

[azbackpackr]

In my last post I asked if the FS had put up any info kiosks regarding hiker safety. I was responding to Jeff's post regarding the Catalina front range, not referring to Grand Canyon.

There used to be various volunteer groups who did what is known as PSAR (preventative search and rescue) on the BA and Kaibab trails in summer. Not sure if this service is still offered. Of course, that would not help anyone on Royal Arch, etc.

[azbackpackr]

We could combine the threads: "Nude Hikers Lost in Globe while Looking for Best Mexican Restaurant are Rescued by Helicopter After Activating SPOT device."

[dysfunction]

No, I understand.. I'm just wondering if it'd work at the front range, since it obviously doesn't at the canyon. I often wonder if people can actually read and comprehend the signs, or if they simply decide that it does not apply to them and choose to ignore the warnings.


Now that "don't hike to the river and back in a day" thing... well.. I'm certain, without a doubt, that pulling that off would not be a huge stretch..

[Moovyoaz]

I like how they do it in Colorado:
In 1994, they created the hikers certificate, later known as Colorado Search and Rescue (CORSAR) cards. They are voluntary and cost $3 for a one-year card and $12 for a five-year card, a portion of which goes into a state search and rescue fund. SARS teams can get fully reimbursed from the state fund for rescues of CORSAR cardholders or their relatives.

Also there's a $0.25 fee in all Colorado fishing and hunting licenses and habitat stamps for search and rescue. If you have one of these licenses or a habitat stamp and need to be rescued, this fee covers the expense. Kind of a cheap insurance policy.

Of course, in Arizona they would probably 'sweep' any funds away this into the general fund, like they did from the AZGF...

[Jeffshadows]

Of course, in Arizona they would probably 'sweep' any funds away this into the general fund, like they did from the AZGF...

Almost certainly; anything that actually stands on it's own two feet gets sold to some legislator's rich buddy for profiteering purposes or misaligned to cover other budget shortfalls.

Azbackpacker: I lost track of what we were talking about. There are new signs at the Front Range of the Catalinas, looks like they went in about five years ago. They have the basics but really don't go into too much detail. Anyway, those trails really aren't the problem. Noobs usually wander a mile or so in and turn around. None of those trails really gain elevation before a mile.

Sabino is the big problem down here. If you look at the Pima County SAR call-outs, better than 70% occur at Sabino or a trail that left from there. I think it has the same issue as the GC. People arrive there and see the infrastructure, all of the people running around in uniforms (Almost all of whom are administrative-types of interpretive guides), and how well beaten most of the trails are in there and think that they are completely safe from harm. It's just another park like Randolph to some fools. If you fall down playing golf you can call 911 and someone will be right there...

[writelots]

Unfortunate fact is, there is no way to stop stupid people from doing stupid things. We can just thank the stars that there are people out there willing to volunteer for SAR groups to make it less likely that your stupidity will kill you. All of the other steps we take (signs, paving trails, fences, gaurdrails and the like) only make it more dangerous by creating the illusion of safety (and thus encouraging a relaxing of your awareness and personal responsibility). SPOT is just another way to create that illusion. In the hands of the right person, it's an amazing tool. In the wrong hands, it's a dangerous device - just like a gun or a knife. And like those tools, there should be consequences for using the tool improperly imho.