Beauty is skin deep, but stupid goes to the bone...

[hikeaz]

Grand Canyon National Park (AZ)
Hikers Evacuated After Three SPOT Activations In Three Days

On the evening of September 23rd, rangers began a search for hikers who repeatedly activated their rented SPOT satellite tracking device. The GEOS Emergency Response Center in Houston reported that someone in the group of four hikers – two men and their two teenaged sons – had pressed the "help" button on their SPOT unit. The coordinates for the signal placed the group in a remote section of the park, most likely on the challenging Royal Arch loop. Due to darkness and the remoteness of the location, rangers were unable to reach them via helicopter until the following morning. When found, they'd moved about a mile and a half to a water source. They declined rescue, as they'd activated the device due to their lack of water. Later that same evening, the same SPOT device was again activated, this time using the "911" button. Coordinates placed them less than a quarter mile from the spot where searchers had found them that morning. Once again, nightfall prevented a response by park helicopter, so an Arizona DPS helicopter whose crew utilized night vision goggles was brought in. They found that the members of the group were concerned about possible dehydration because the water they'd found tasted salty, but no actual emergency existed. The helicopter crew declined their request for a night evacuation, but provided them with water before departing. On the following morning, another SPOT "help" activation came in from the group. This time they were flown out by park helicopter. All four refused medical assessment or treatment. The group's leader had reportedly hiked once at the Grand Canyon; the other adult had no Grand Canyon and very little backpacking experience. When asked what they would have done without the SPOT device, the leader stated, "We would have never attempted this hike." The group leader was issued a citation for creating a hazardous condition (36 CFR 2.34(a)(4)).

[azbackpackr]

Well put, writelots! A lot of well-thought-out comments on here. Too bad the "stupid people" probably aren't reading them. We are preachin' to the choir here, for the most part, I think! Nothing wrong with that, but trying to get the message out about hiking safety skills, when there seem to be so many people who aren't receptive to it, must be very frustrating for rangers, law enforcement, SAR volunteers and anyone else in a position of responsibility to the public safety.

[base871]

Good thing thing they were not in the little colorado gorge, SPOT dont work down there!!!!

[joebartels]

IMO it works better

[Jeffshadows]

One point I'd like to make about SPOT ownership that hasn't been raised is the main reason why I bought mine: I frequently hike long distances alone.

[big_load]

Unfortunate fact is, there is no way to stop stupid people from doing stupid things.

I think nonot's position is that stupidity was formerly a self-limiting condition: not surviveable beyond a certain degree. Interfering with nature's course has increased its prevalence in the general population. Fortunately, although it may be hereditary, it is only weakly contagious.

[writelots]

... stupidity was formerly a self-limiting condition: not surviveable beyond a certain degree. Interfering with nature's course has increased its prevalence in the general population. Fortunately, although it may be hereditary, it is only weakly contagious.

Interesting to note that this is a theme that was discussed in HG Well's book the Time Machine, published in 1895. Doesn't seem we've learned the lesson yet...

But I have to agree about the contagious nature of stupidity. The life-long disease may not spread, but periodic stupidity is a viral nightmare. I've seen very intelligent, clear thinking individuals follow stupid people into stupid actions (and I raise my hand as one of them) too many times to count. It's hard to always follow your gut - especially when someone you trust as an expert tells you differently...

[dysfunction]

I believe that stupidity is merely part of the human condition, and that there never was such a thing as 'common-sense'

[BobP]

I've seen very intelligent, clear thinking individuals follow stupid people into stupid actions (and I raise my hand as one of them) too many times to count.

i look both ways...roll my eyes...and reluctantly raise my hand also...sans the very intelligent,clear thinking part

[wallyfrack]

i look both ways...roll my eyes...and reluctantly raise my hand also...sans the very intelligent,clear thinking part

You mean like San Jacinto in November....

[BobP]

Are you kiddin me Palm Springs is lovely in November. Avg high 74 Avg low 48...let's see subtract 27 degrees on top. Thats still t-shirt weather for Denny.

[nonot]

Warning: Don't get lost in New Hampshire

Eagle Scout hiker Scott Mason of Halifax, Mass., is rescued April 28 near Pinkham Notch, N.H.
He is seeking to reduce the $25,000 fine he incurred from New Hampshire for the three-day search for him.

By Martha T. Moore, USA TODAY

When New Hampshire lawmakers decided to bill negligent hikers for their rescues, they figured they would solve some budget problems and teach hapless tourists a lesson. Then a 17-year-old Eagle Scout got lost on Mount Washington and ended up with a bill for $25,000.

Now New Hampshire officials, facing possible litigation, are defending a law that hasn't solved their budget troubles and puts the state at odds with national search-and-rescue groups that say billing hikers is dangerous.

"It certainly has put us on the hot spot," says Lt. Todd Bogardus, head of search and rescue for the state Fish and Game Department.

Few other states bill those who are rescued — and most of the other laws target skiers who stray off marked slopes.

Oregon caps the amount that can be billed at $500. Hawaii requires there be an "intentional disregard" for safety, and Idaho limits reimbursement to rescues from lands that are closed to the public. A Maine law that permits the state to recover costs of a search and rescue is seldom enforced.

The National Association for Search and Rescue opposes billing for rescue, contending people won't seek help if they're afraid they'll have to pay for it. "The public needs to understand that there's going to be someone there to help them and you shouldn't worry about downstream consequences," spokesman Howard Paul says.

In April, Scott Mason, then a high school junior from Halifax, Mass., set out on a 17-mile day hike in the White Mountains. The popular hiking destination includes Mount Washington, where unpredictable conditions have earned it the title "home of the world's worst weather."

When he didn't return by nightfall, his parents called for help. Teams from four search-and-rescue groups searched for four days, assisted by helicopters rented from Maine and Vermont.

Mason had hurt his ankle and tried to take a shortcut, only to get stranded by melting snow and swollen streams that also hampered the searchers. During his three nights on the mountain, he had built a rock shelter and started a fire using hand sanitizer* as an accelerant.

Bogardus says Mason was negligent because he did not turn back on the trail after he was injured.

Mason, who declined comment, is in negotiations with the state Attorney General's office over the fee, his lawyer Jed Callen says.

Since the negligent hiker law took effect in June 2008, the state has billed 13 hikers other than Mason an average of $203 for their rescues.

"People (who) make poor judgments at some point in time have to be responsible for their actions," says Democratic state Rep. Dennis Abbott, who sponsored the law. "You don't rent helicopters for nothing."

National groups say billing for rescue is like a firefighter dousing the flames and then billing the homeowner.

Sometimes hikers are foolish, says Charley Shimanski, president of the Mountain Rescue
Association. "But at the same time, you also have people who don't know how to use a welding torch
… burning down their garage. And they still need the help of the fire department."

Bogardus and other New Hampshire officials point out that while everyone's taxes pay for the firefighters, search-and-rescue teams are funded by a $1 surcharge on snowmobile, boat and off-road vehicle licenses.

That covers only 84% of the annual cost of search-and-rescue missions, a department performance audit shows. The state averages 138 rescue missions a year and spent $258,000 on them in 2007.

Almost half of the missions are to help hikers, Bogardus says. And almost half of those hikers are from out of state, department records show.

An earlier New Hampshire law allowed the state to recoup expenses in rescuing "reckless" hikers. The new focus on negligence, Bogardus says, "is a much easier standard to prove."

Freddie Wilkinson, a climber and writer who was part of the search party that found Mason, calls the new standard a dangerous precedent because "the government assumes the authority to regulate personal decisions made in the wilderness."

Says Bogardus: "Take care of yourself and don't expect big brother."

[base871]

luckily my insurance covered me when they scraped me off the mountain I jumped and broke my back last month! But I made it a point to let them know NO HELICOPTER!!!!!

[PaleoRob]

Why is "hand sanitizer" starred?

[nonot]

There was a footnote to use hand sanitizer as treatment for poison ivy and other maladies.

[ssk44]

Unfortunate fact is, there is no way to stop stupid people from doing stupid things.

Thank you Wendy! I can not believe that this topic is still dragging on. Yes there are problems. Yes there is misuse. That basically applies to everything in life. The Spot has essentially taken the “search” out of “search and rescue”. Rather than taking days to find someone it literally only takes hours. Doesn’t that save significant taxpayer dolors? The “Spot” is good technology that is only going to get better. Why fight it? There are still dinosaurs out there that are actually not giving in to using GPS. You could argue that my GPS inspires too much confidence. We should probably take those away also. This is ridiculous. Why should the large majority of responsible people be punished for the stupidity of a select few? There are zero legitimate arguments to justify why responsible people should not carry a Spot or something similar while hiking in the remote backcountry. Stupid people are a part of life. Stupid people are not going to go away. Don’t punish the majority for the ignorance of the minority. :roll:

[PaleoRob]

There are still dinosaurs out there that are actually not giving in to using GPS.

For me it is one more thing that could break down/etc. It is a useful tool, but that doesn't make it the end-all, be-all in outdoor navigating or enjoyment.

[BobP]

I lifted this from another site. I guess its in the fine print.

False SOS/911 Emergency Transmissions. You are solely responsible for any charges that may be assessed by emergency responders for either false SOS/911 emergency signals and/or in relation to search and rescue activities resulting from you or your authorized users transmission of a SOS/911 Emergency Signal. Should you deliberately or negligently misuse the SOS/911 Emergency Service, the SOS/911 service provider, GEOS, reserves the right to assess a fee in order to recoup their costs in relation to responding to such misuse. Negligent and deliberate misuse includes, but is not limited to, pressing the SOS/911 button to ‘see if it works’ or otherwise knowingly pressing the SOS/911 button when no emergency situation exists. Should it be determined by Spot that you have deliberately or negligently misused the SOS/911 Emergency Service, Spot shall provide your credit card information on record to GEOS. GEOS shall then, without further notice, bill your credit card the appropriate fee, calculated at a rate of US $345.00 per hour, or stated part thereof, for a minimum charge of one (1) hour and maximum charge of two (2) hours, for each such false SOS/911 Emergency Signal event, and you shall be responsible to pay any such fee. If you purchase the optional Search and Rescue Service, such Search and Rescue services shall be subject to the terms of your separate agreement with GEOS, located at http://www.geosalliance.com/sar/.

[chumley]

Only halfway off-topic ... this has absolutely nothing to do with SPOT (except I hope this woman NEVER goes hiking), but it does fit perfectly under the subject line of this thread.

Oh, and you can spend more than a few minutes reading the responses for entertainment.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 626AAqNCZa

[base871]

That just made my day!

[azbackpackr]

Well, now it's gone. I clicked on your yahoo link, chumley, and now it says "This question has been deleted." Now I know why Joe would prefer that we'd copy and paste!