A question about the Birds and the Bears
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chumleyGuides: 94 | Official Routes: 241Triplogs Last: 7 d | RS: 65Water Reports 1Y: 78 | Last: 8 d
- Joined: Sep 18 2002 8:59 am
- City, State: Tempe, AZ
A question about the Birds and the Bears
I thought of this question yesterday after snapping a screenshot of the webcam at Fort Valley.
We all know that when bears are allowed to access human food sources they can become "problem bears". This is true for many other animals as well. Squirrels, raccoons, etc. come to mind.
And yet, birds are "wild" animals too. Why is it OK to feed birds? Some can actually become quite a "problem" -- in areas such as parks and golf courses. Lets not even talk about sea gulls on the beach or pigeons in the city.
By feeding these birds in northern Arizona during the winter, aren't we doing a disservice to them and their own ability to survive winter?
Shouldn't it be just as "frowned upon" to have a bird-feeder as it is to leave your food/trash out for animals at a campsite?
Why is it ok to feed birds? Here we have the National Forest Service studying an experimental forest, and in the middle of winter with over 2 feet of snow on the ground for the past 2 months or so, there's a bird feeder that gets filled at least twice a day.We all know that when bears are allowed to access human food sources they can become "problem bears". This is true for many other animals as well. Squirrels, raccoons, etc. come to mind.
And yet, birds are "wild" animals too. Why is it OK to feed birds? Some can actually become quite a "problem" -- in areas such as parks and golf courses. Lets not even talk about sea gulls on the beach or pigeons in the city.
By feeding these birds in northern Arizona during the winter, aren't we doing a disservice to them and their own ability to survive winter?
Shouldn't it be just as "frowned upon" to have a bird-feeder as it is to leave your food/trash out for animals at a campsite?
I'm not sure what my spirit animal is, but I'm confident it has rabies.
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big_loadGuides: 0 | Official Routes: 1Triplogs Last: 596 d | RS: 3Water Reports 1Y: 0 | Last: 2,484 d
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears
There are people who see it that way. It's a moot point for us. We can't have a bird feeder because of the bears.
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BobPGuides: 2 | Official Routes: 17Triplogs Last: 6 d | RS: 58Water Reports 1Y: 4 | Last: 229 d
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears

https://www.seeitourway.org
Always pronounce Egeszsegedre properly......
If you like this triplog you must be a friend of BrunoP
Always pronounce Egeszsegedre properly......
If you like this triplog you must be a friend of BrunoP
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JoelHazeltonGuides: 16 | Official Routes: 1Triplogs Last: 17 d | RS: 1Water Reports 1Y: 2 | Last: 77 d
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears
^^^ 

"Arizona is the land of contrast... You can go from Minnesota to California in a matter of minutes, then have Mexican food that night." -Jack Dykinga
http://www.joelhazelton.com
http://www.joelhazelton.com
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joebartelsGuides: 264 | Official Routes: 226Triplogs Last: 7 d | RS: 1960Water Reports 1Y: 14 | Last: 9 d
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears
Hey let's start selling bear feeders stocked with naked-gun-totting-political-hikers with dogs!
- joe
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JimGuides: 73 | Official Routes: 36Triplogs Last: 8 d | RS: 67Water Reports 1Y: 9 | Last: 143 d
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears
When it comes to humans and wildlife, feeding wildlife only becomes a problem when the wildlife start to infiltrate human property and can harm humans. Feeding birds is considered fun because you draw them near and they are pleasant to see. Bear feeders would be a problem, but hummingbird feeders in National Parks are still common. I think Elk and deer that cause wrecks on highways are a problem. Think about the infestations of whitetail dear in the east, and the Elk on the highways up here. The deer numbers are high, and a lack of predators is part of the issue (though the automobile has replaced the carnivore), but the real issue is habitat improvements like endless suburban lawns and the creation of enormous areas of edge habitat which is perfect for whitetails. In our area, tanks which were created in the last 100 years or so for cattle benefit Elk and Mule dear. Before that time there was almost no surface water over much of the forested highlands of the western Mogollon Rim. A driver like myself, and an ecologist concerned about the health of the ecosystem in the area would see artificially high Elk numbers to be problematic, but I doubt hunters would ever see that as a problem unless disease infiltrates the population.
Feeding a bird is no cause for concern for 99% of people. It will undoubtedly raise the population of certain species. Most would see that as an inconsequential affect on overall avian richness. If for some reason, the birds that benefit from the feeding started to out compete other natives and a species began to decline, then it would start to be a problem. There would still be people who feed birds, and near human habitat that negatively impacted species would be affected. We aren't everywhere up here, and the effects of bird feeding probably are not, nor could they ever be as problematic as humans feeding bears and the bears then tearing open cars and houses to get to food they smell.
Pigeons aren't usually fed, and I never see a pigeon feeder. They seem to feed off of trash, so they are more like a flying rat. Gulls can be a problem, but they are attracted to the trash people leave out. Gull are notorious around landfills in coastal areas. The Canada Goose is a serious pest on golf courses, but it would be easy to contain if we just started killing them with out mercy, or eliminated lush green grass which they feed on. Either or.
Feeding a bird is no cause for concern for 99% of people. It will undoubtedly raise the population of certain species. Most would see that as an inconsequential affect on overall avian richness. If for some reason, the birds that benefit from the feeding started to out compete other natives and a species began to decline, then it would start to be a problem. There would still be people who feed birds, and near human habitat that negatively impacted species would be affected. We aren't everywhere up here, and the effects of bird feeding probably are not, nor could they ever be as problematic as humans feeding bears and the bears then tearing open cars and houses to get to food they smell.
Pigeons aren't usually fed, and I never see a pigeon feeder. They seem to feed off of trash, so they are more like a flying rat. Gulls can be a problem, but they are attracted to the trash people leave out. Gull are notorious around landfills in coastal areas. The Canada Goose is a serious pest on golf courses, but it would be easy to contain if we just started killing them with out mercy, or eliminated lush green grass which they feed on. Either or.
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chumleyGuides: 94 | Official Routes: 241Triplogs Last: 7 d | RS: 65Water Reports 1Y: 78 | Last: 8 d
- Joined: Sep 18 2002 8:59 am
- City, State: Tempe, AZ
Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears
How's the Canada Goose taste? 
I'm not sure what my spirit animal is, but I'm confident it has rabies.
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azbackpackrGuides: 27 | Official Routes: 23Triplogs Last: 79 d | RS: 0Water Reports 1Y: 0 | Last: 771 d
- Joined: Jan 21 2006 6:46 am
- City, State: Eagar AZ
Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears
That bear photo made my day!
There is a point of no return unremarked at the time in most lives. Graham Greene The Comedians
A clean house is a sign of a misspent life.
A clean house is a sign of a misspent life.
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JeffshadowsGuides: 28 | Official Routes: 7Triplogs Last: 4,049 d | RS: 0Water Reports 1Y: 0 | Last: 4,206 d
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears
Yea, that was greatazbackpackr wrote:That bear photo made my day!

AD-AVGVSTA-PER-ANGVSTA
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pencakGuides: 0 | Official Routes: 2Triplogs Last: 5,542 d | RS: 0Water Reports 1Y: 0 | Last: never
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears
I think the little plastic snowman on the bird feeder is the real problem. ;)
Pencak aka Larry Rudd
"I think I'm a verb"
Buckmaster Fuller
"I think I'm a verb"
Buckmaster Fuller
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joebartelsGuides: 264 | Official Routes: 226Triplogs Last: 7 d | RS: 1960Water Reports 1Y: 14 | Last: 9 d
- Joined: Nov 20 1996 12:00 pm
Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears
When I first saw the thread I thought Chumley needed "the talk"
- joe
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chumleyGuides: 94 | Official Routes: 241Triplogs Last: 7 d | RS: 65Water Reports 1Y: 78 | Last: 8 d
- Joined: Sep 18 2002 8:59 am
- City, State: Tempe, AZ
Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears
I purposely worded the title that way. (I figured more people would read it...?)
And the plastic snowman is a lot worse at night. It's actually lit up. (Well, usually it is. But not tonight apparently). Talk about an unnatural bird sanctuary!
And the plastic snowman is a lot worse at night. It's actually lit up. (Well, usually it is. But not tonight apparently). Talk about an unnatural bird sanctuary!
I'm not sure what my spirit animal is, but I'm confident it has rabies.
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JeffshadowsGuides: 28 | Official Routes: 7Triplogs Last: 4,049 d | RS: 0Water Reports 1Y: 0 | Last: 4,206 d
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears
...It was the only way to get readership away from the "Nude Hiking" and "Firearms" threads... 
EDIT: Changed "Nuke" to "Nude."
NOTE: The "Nuke" hiking thread will begin shortly. PageRob has some interesting Geiger counter samples he can share to shed light on the subject...

EDIT: Changed "Nuke" to "Nude."
NOTE: The "Nuke" hiking thread will begin shortly. PageRob has some interesting Geiger counter samples he can share to shed light on the subject...

Last edited by Jeffshadows on Mar 09 2010 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
AD-AVGVSTA-PER-ANGVSTA
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azbackpackrGuides: 27 | Official Routes: 23Triplogs Last: 79 d | RS: 0Water Reports 1Y: 0 | Last: 771 d
- Joined: Jan 21 2006 6:46 am
- City, State: Eagar AZ
Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears
"Nuke" hiking, Jeff? Was that a subliminal error? 

There is a point of no return unremarked at the time in most lives. Graham Greene The Comedians
A clean house is a sign of a misspent life.
A clean house is a sign of a misspent life.
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JeffshadowsGuides: 28 | Official Routes: 7Triplogs Last: 4,049 d | RS: 0Water Reports 1Y: 0 | Last: 4,206 d
- Joined: Jan 30 2008 8:46 am
- City, State: Old Pueblo
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