Scary NRA Militia types?!!

pixelfrog · Post by **pixelfrog** » Aug 05 2002 10:44 am

Hi All,

I was on a beautiful hike this past saturday morning on the Bluffs Springs Trail in the Sups. The Temperature cooperated, the sun was behind clouds, there was a nice breeze and of course anyone who's been out there knows the scenery is increadible.

The only weird thing about the hike was on the way back to the trailhead at the end of my hike probably within a half mile of the peralta trailhead, I ran into these two guys that were all suited up for war games or something. Camo, Knives strapped to gear suspenders, a pistol at the older man's side who had so much facial hair, you could barely see his face.

As I passed them with my hiking poles out the older guy said to me all suprised, "Ski Poles?!!!" I quickly explained they helped the old knees on the way down after I noticed he had a gun at his side. I pretty much smiled and nodded then continued on my way.

Now I'm all for everyone's right to bear arms and all, but seeing this kind of freaked me out. I know it's legal to carry handguns in Arizona and that's fine, but I was thinking there isn't a very large reason to carry a gun out there, especially if you are with another full grown adult male.

I have no idea what their reason would be for bringing those types of weopons out there, and the whole incident was a bit disturbing. I was glad that I encountered these yahoo's close to the trailhead. Anyone else run into any of these gun toting militia type weirdo's?

Paul

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Aug 19 2002 9:42 pm

So let's take Viagra. It's expensive, therefore stemmed unapproved versions which are being sold on the internet and through private channels. But I haven't heard of bodies being stuffed with viagra.

tobacco is legal, heck even diet pepsi is legal

I'm just kidding, I hope to hear more thoughts on this cause I really don't know what to think!

Though I do have an interesting photo embedded in my mind of ck1's students now. I picture a weed lovin', catcus huntin' group.

ck_1 · Post by **ck_1** » Aug 19 2002 9:51 pm

teva wrote:Though I do have an interesting photo embedded in my mind of ck1's students now. I picture a weed lovin', catcus huntin' group.

Yea, and I teach in a district with a tradition of high test scores, strong parental involvement and a high SES.

olesma · Post by **olesma** » Aug 19 2002 9:57 pm

Nice reply Colin. I agree. Legalizing drugs is NOT a good answer. Alcohol is brought up as an argument for legalizing drugs - but I don't feel that's a proper example.

Like Colin, I don't have statistics, but I am willing to bet that if you compared the two: drugs (generically - the illegal ones anyway) and alcohol, and look at the number of deaths per year attributed to each, the results will be fairly lopsided. Alcohol will be the big winner there. Why? because it is legaized and more available. Sure - we legalize it and I personally won't be affected immediately, simply because I don't use them. But, in the long term I will be dramatically affected. Alcohol use already causes enough damage (societal, and economical) that I don't need to have more dangerous substances widely available on the market.

The cost of controling and licencing alcohol distribution is probably on par, or more expensive, than the controlls extended toward the drug trade as well. Then there is the question of minority access - a subject close to Colin's heart. We can barely (if at all) keep alcohol out of the hands of minors as it is, and there are plenty of laws to prevent it - if we legalize drugs, well, guess what - same result, minors will have easy access.

Also, despite what people think, alcohol is also quite damaging to the human body. Drugs even more so.

I think some people look at the legalizing drugs issue as one of "freedom of choice." Well, that's not the whole issue. Personal freedom of choice is fine, but when it begins to affect the lives of others around you (as already mentioned in this thread), then it is no longer something that can be argued for in the same vein as "personal freedom." Now it becomes the realm of "public good" - legalizing drugs will not benefit the general public. All we need is one more abundand substance open for abuse (just like alcohol) where someone can get high and drive a car or wave a gun around or any number of other destructive acts that become deadly when the individual has lost the ability to reason and think. Alcohol is one too many.

Yes, it is expensive to control these substances, and yes, the control of them fuels a large and extensive underworld and a bevie of avenues for curruption (just look at Columbia - a whole country and a system of govenrment - allbeit temprarily rebelious - devoted to the manufacture and distribution of illegal drugs), and some would say that we have created our own H*LL in our efforts to control it, but the alternatives are far uglier and would affect far more people.

Although I will admit - I think that in another 20 years (probably less) most "soft" drugs (like the hippie lettuce) will be legalized. I'm not looking forward to it.

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Aug 20 2002 4:38 am

mike t wrote:And we could tax the crap out of it too!!!

The recent Awatukee robberies of cigarettes were reported a couple weeks ago.

I didn't think much of it until I was watching the 4am news. There was a story on cigarettes in New York. A pack goes for $7.50 which is the highest in the US. It's pretty much all tax. The story was about the explosion of gangs turning from hard core drug distribution to cigarettes.

Anyhow, as much as I like the theory, it's doesn't seem to be panning out as first thought.

mtoomeyaz · Post by **mtoomeyaz** » Aug 20 2002 7:38 am

Hi Don't get me wrong. I'm not necessarily advocating drug legalization. I'm just pointing out a possible different approach. I go back to personal responsibility and choice. For myself, I could be a raging alcoholic. I choose not to. I do not want the down side that goes along with it. I also don't want the down side of too much fast food and too little excercise. We all have to take responsibility for the results of our own actions.

Also gotta clear up a couple responses. Olesma wrote about alcohol being "quite damaging" to the body, "drugs even more so"
Not always true. I work in health care and see the result of alcoholism. It is not "quite damaging", it is EXTREMELY damaging. Long term alcohol does more damage to the body than heroin believe it or not. I think people sometimes don't realize just how bad alcohol really is. That ties in with ck1's comment that "something not as bad as something else doesn't make it ok". Agreed. He also says "Kids (and adults) would still kill braincells by the tons and lessen their lifetime intellectual capacity." Agreed. But I feel that is the point. People will do what they will do. A certain percentage of people will be addicted personalities and I don't feel we can legislate it away. People need to be responsible for their own actions.
This has digressed. My original post asked about liberty and responsibility. Drugs was just the example so I don't really want to get caught up in that. I just don't see more laws and limitations as always being the answer. Guns, seat belts, paying taxes, paying debts, diet and excercise, flossing, beating our wives and children, drugs and alcohol, good manners. Some of these issues have laws while others do not. Most of us do what is right because it is right, law or no law. Some do not.

BoyNhisDog · Post by **BoyNhisDog** » Aug 20 2002 9:43 am

MaryPhyl wrote:If you have a real grievience you should be able to sue. You should get however much you can prove you are out for example how much you would have earned had you not been injured by that drunk driver and of course medical bills and a new car to replace the one the drunk squished.

The problem seems to lie in the pain and suffering awards. My husband has suggested that these awards should go to the state--not as much incentive to sue in the first place if the lawyer does not get a slice of that.

Well I have a real grievience. We just returned last night from a beautiful backpacking trip up in Ontario's Algonquin on the Candadian Shield. I'll post a little story on that later with some pics. It was awesome.

What we had waiting for us was a nightmare. Someone has hit our block wall at about 50 to 60 mph and smashed into our storage building. It blew out the glass doors to the backyard, blew out a skylight, destroyed our glass dinning table and chairs, blew out the kitchen window and a whole lot of other things. Oh, and they left their critically injured buddy and ran.

The car was full of beer cans as I have heard from neighbors. My dog Winston was gone for two hours but he went up and demanded to be let into someones house and they rescued him. The car drivers ran off and left him to the dangers of the world. He could have been killed, they did not care. They left their buddy too, to save their own hides.

When it happens to you, it is personal. Someone is responsible for causing me a lot of damage and trouble.

While I don't like to see excessive awards, a little something for pain, suffering and plain old aggravation is not out of line. Insurance will pay for some of the material problem but believe me, it is hard to compensate one for the worry when you are thousands of miles away and you learn h#ll has come to breakfast (it happened at about 4:40 in the morning).

It looks like a bomb hit this place.

Oh well, it was a good backpack in a magic place. I'll try to get time to work up a post on it soon.

mtoomeyaz · Post by **mtoomeyaz** » Aug 20 2002 9:59 am

Sorry to hear that Glen. I got burglarized once while away. You're right. It is personal. Good luck! BTW I have a cairn that I adore and would be the most upsetting part of th scenario.

BoyNhisDog · Post by **BoyNhisDog** » Aug 20 2002 10:07 am

Mike, the Cairn was the most upsetting thing. The rest is just lots of work and phone calls.

My JRT stayed with the house. My neighbors are awesome. They really helped me out big time.

MaryPhyl · Post by **MaryPhyl** » Aug 20 2002 12:13 pm

Sorry to hear about your house. Dang!! My guess is that the kind of folks that would do something like that and run don't have insurance. Any hope of catching them?

BoyNhisDog · Post by **BoyNhisDog** » Aug 20 2002 3:13 pm

I don't know Mary. I guess the police are on it. I should hear something soon maybe. The insurance co will take a big interest too. I'll let them do their jobs and I'll try to get this place back together. That part is going well. It just is not something you want to do after a big trip but hey, things happen at the oddest times.

Abe · Post by **Abe** » Aug 25 2002 7:17 am

Sorry to hear about your place Glen. I hope all turns out well.

Abe · Post by **Abe** » Aug 25 2002 7:27 am

I brought this back up front to say I am back, working 55 hours a week wears me out and I generally do not get on the P.C.; I would rather kick back when I get home and go to bed early. Nevertheless, just like to say I appreciate the comments and opinions, it is what makes America great. In closing, I do believe in individual choice, individual rights, individual responsibility, individual accountability, discipline, and plain ol' horse sense. I do think on the whole our nation/society lacks many of these qualities.

Wiz · Post by **Wiz** » Aug 25 2002 9:22 am

Abe wrote:I do believe in individual choice, individual rights, individual responsibility, individual accountability, discipline, and plain ol' horse sense. I do think on the whole our nation/society lacks many of these qualities.

Amen to that.

kurthzone · Post by **kurthzone** » Nov 26 2002 1:27 pm

Maybe we ought to ask the Wonderful Wizzard of Haz. He comes from a neutral corner!

Seriously, if you have read this thread in it's entirety you know my stand on this issue. However, since the time of this old forum topic I have changed my mind on personal use. I no longer tote the gun while hiking or backpacking. Lizzard and others are correct. There are many more important and useful items to carry that are much better use of the weight. It does not bother me to see others with guns. Like I stated earlier, I grew up with guns being a big part of my life. I'm more concerned about idiot boys. Now if idiot boy has a gun, something the nature of nighthikers story of the juveniles shooting at cattle, that's scary!

azhiker96 · Post by **azhiker96** » Nov 26 2002 6:51 pm

I slogged through a few pages of this forum. It sure grew like a weed. Just an update to the question of packing heat. I've since received my CCW and purchased a sidearm, Glock 17. Sometimes I pack it but usually I don't. It's a lot of weight that I probably will not need on a hike. I also rarely pack a cell phone and my medical kit is less than a pound which means there's lots of emergency stuff other folks carry that I choose to leave behind. To me it's a personal choice on how prepared I want to be for emergencies. Usually, I'd rather pack light, keep a clean camp, be aware of my surroundings, and take the path less travelled.

Here's some interesting reading though:
http://www.senate.gov/~rpc/releases/1999/gc1083100.htm

A good site for pro-gun arguments and statistics is http://www.guncite.com/

Wiz · Post by **Wiz** » Nov 27 2002 6:00 am

Thanks for posting that report URL. No one believes things like that when I say them!

snow22_5150 · Post by **snow22_5150** » Nov 27 2002 9:11 am

I second that Wiz!

pfredricks · Post by **pfredricks** » Nov 27 2002 9:05 pm

This is kinda silly really...............deciding what to carry in your pack, is like most items, a personal choice. I prefer to carry a heavy metal flask filled with scotch, doesnt make sense, but hey, I gotta carry it. There are certainly some-although few-arguements for carrying a gun, but, I can't think of ANY legitmate reasons against carrying a gun, as long as it is used legally. (hopefully not used at all) That is unless your buddy is forcing you to carry it. I don't think many people are going to change their minds one way or the other. As long as you don't point a gun at me.......hey

pfredricks · Post by **pfredricks** » Nov 27 2002 9:59 pm

before anyone says anything............yes, I know that you can't carry a gun in your pack without a CCW. I just meant carrying the extra weight............holstered in plain sight. I also guess that I have more to say....(soapbox please!) I had two guys break into my house with my ex girlfriend and her daughter there and sleeping. I DETAINED the intruders with a shotgun. IF I had no gun, then I could only imagine. You really dont know how you would feel about guns until you have to protect the ones you love. Imagine meeting those militia guys out on the trail with your family, but in the middle of the night, way in the middle of nowhere. Probably never happen.......we hope. By the way, has anyone seen Deliverence????? da de dow di dow di dow di dow

j/k

Wiz · Post by **Wiz** » Nov 28 2002 5:00 am

pfredricks wrote:before anyone says anything............yes, I know that you can't carry a gun in your pack without a CCW. I just meant carrying the extra weight............holstered in plain sight. I also guess that I have more to say....(soapbox please!) I had two guys break into my house with my ex girlfriend and her daughter there and sleeping. I DETAINED the intruders with a shotgun. IF I had no gun, then I could only imagine. You really dont know how you would feel about guns until you have to protect the ones you love. Imagine meeting those militia guys out on the trail with your family, but in the middle of the night, way in the middle of nowhere. Probably never happen.......we hope. By the way, has anyone seen Deliverence????? da de dow di dow di dow di dow j/k

Well said!
And has anyone NOT seen Deliverance?! That could be the "Why I carry a gun camping" training film.

Scary NRA Militia types?!!

To pack or not to pack, iron that is...

Scary NRA Militia types?!!