Researching GPS

Robdice · Post by **Robdice** » Jul 29 2009 2:48 pm

I'm looking to buy my first GPS receiver. Right now I'm looking at the Garmin Venture HC GPS receiver. (http://www.rei.com/product/761620). Anyone know much about this? Or one in the $150-300 price range that is great?

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Jan 30 2010 11:24 pm

That's the "improved" model, pray you never have to stop and squint with a 400

DarthStiller · Post by **DarthStiller** » Mar 03 2010 10:44 am

I’m going to be buying a new GPS soon because my Magellan Triton 400 is an unreliable POS that only uses proprietary software and keeps crashing my computer when I try to download tracks from it. In addition, the customer service is just about non-existent. This company has really gone by the wayside and offers horrendous products and service.

Anyway, I’ve already decided that I’m likely going to buy a Garmin. The main reason is because from what I’m hearing, you can get the mapping for free from a variety of sources and upload it in just about any Garmin. I have also recently found a website that offers topo of Serbia for free, but it can only be put into a Garmin. This pretty much seals the deal for me on the brand, but I haven’t decided yet which model.

I’m probably leaning towards the Oregon, but there are still some questions I have:

Screen visibility: My Triton 400 is hard to see in the sunlight, but if you push any button, it’s backlit and that solves that problem. Is there a similar feature on the Oregons?

On the “-t” models, does that topo have a lot of known trails? The only good thing that I can say for my Magellan is the fact that almost every hike I go on (except for recent trails in municipal and county parks) the trail is already on the mapping which makes it way easier in terms of doing prep work (downloading a track or plotting out a track from other mapping I have).

Do the “-t” models have expandable memory also, or are you stuck with what they have built in? do they other models take SD cards?
About once a year I do get outside of AZ to do a hike, so I think in the long run, I would like something that I can download as much topo as I can into, like the whole US, plus Serbia, and as time goes on, maybe other places in Europe. Is there any one model that lends itself to this more than the others?

Any feedback is appreciated, thanks in advance.

imike · Post by **imike** » Mar 03 2010 10:51 am

I just bought a Garmin 60csx... really like it. specs said it comes with only 64K chip, but in fact it had a 1 Giga card installed...getting over 30 hours on the batteries... unfortunately, thinking it was going to be 64K I had already ordered a 2 Gig card... it was cheap (less than $10)... use and screen visibility are both nice, plus it seems to be a really tough unit overall... picks up signals even in the narrow canyon defiles I spend lots of time in.

BobP · Post by **BobP** » Mar 03 2010 10:53 am

imike wrote:Garmin 60csx

+1 I really like mine.

Sredfield · Post by **Sredfield** » Mar 03 2010 11:08 am

I like my 76CSx, have the bigger chip and I sprang for the 1:24K set of maps for AZ and NM. With a bit more technical ability on my part, that probably wasn't necessary but WTH, it's only $$. I have climbed just far enough up the learning curve to where I can hurt myself if I'm not careful.

Never bet your life on them tho, they fail you or you fail it all too often. The mistakes/issues I still encounter include inadequate batteries (I know-always carry spares-but sometimes I forget or think I have them and don't), and creating and loading a track off an outdated map.

DarthStiller · Post by **DarthStiller** » Mar 04 2010 12:13 pm

Ok, here’s a question. If I buy a Garmin with the pre-loaded topo, can I expand the memory from there? For example, if I were to buy one of the new Oregons with the topo of the entire US on it, can I from there add an SD card with the topo for another country on it later on without affecting the preloaded topo?

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Mar 04 2010 12:27 pm

On the 400t yes
You can select which map to display which has an option to turn off the internal map. For instance I have Steve's masterpiece loaded and can turn off the internal topo then turn it on. However it's slower than the internal map so I run the internal map with only his "routes" layer over it. So you can stack them too.

Though I haven't a clue on your international stuff

DarthStiller · Post by **DarthStiller** » Mar 04 2010 1:11 pm

I'm assuming the international stuff can be done similarly but i won't know for sure until I try. All I know for sure is that I need a Garmin for the stuff I found to be useful.

My only other concern is the antenna sensivity. I was getting the impression from reading here and other forums that the 60CSx maybe has a stronger antenna than an oregon. the specs on the Garmin website says they're both "high sensitivity", whatever that means :roll: . Probably have the map flexibility is more important, but I have had issues sometimes where keeping a signal is a problem, mainly in heavy foliaged areas. Back in PA 2 years ago, keeping a signal long enough to have a useful route from a hike thru the Allegheny NF was impossible.

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Mar 04 2010 1:33 pm

I don't think antennas are much of an issue these days, more of a placement on your pack/body issue.

What you're getting into is the difference between patch and quad-helix antennas. The Oregon has a patch, whereas oddly enough the Colorado's have quad-helix. eTrex are patch. My old Magellan SporTrack was quad-helix and it was great but this excerpt sums it up best...

http://gpsinformation.net/ wrote:Some people suggest that the Quad Helix antenna is "best" consumer GPS antenna under tree cover. This is not categorically true. There is little difference in performance between patch and quad helix antennas which have the same effective APERTURE. Aperture is directly proportional to antenna size and antenna gain is proportional to antenna aperture. Note that the Garmin G-12xl, G-12map, and eMap (among others) have a patch antenna while the G-76 series and the Magellan Meridian series use quad helix antennas. These models all have similar performance and sensitivity. All GARMIN models except the GPS 12 and eTrex series can be used with an external antenna. Some recent Magellan models have external amplified antenna capability.

The more recent units do have slightly more sensitivity but this is due more to improvements in semiconductor technology than anything else. The trend of improvements in effective sensitivity in newer technology units is likely to continue for the forseeable future and is not necessarily related to antenna type.

Note also that the eTrex models are more compact units than the others listed. As a result, they have slightly less antenna gain (on the order of perhaps 2db
less) than the physically larger models and thus will have slightly less sensitivity which may be important under forest canopy.

Thus, as a rule-of-thumb, physically larger GPS receivers are likely to have better forest canopy receive performance than more compact units regardless of
antenna type.

Sredfield · Post by **Sredfield** » Mar 04 2010 1:40 pm

My 76CSx is pretty good in tree cover, and canyons, but it can loose it in a tight one. I find once it's got a fix on the satellites it keeps them, seems more sensitive than if it is started up in canyon or under tree cover.

Thoreau · Post by **Thoreau** » Mar 04 2010 2:21 pm

big_load wrote:I have an older Garmin 60CS (before the x). If I were buying today for trail use, I'd go for the Garmin eTrex Vista HCx. It has great sensitivity and battery life and is very lightweight. My second choice would be the 60CSx.

I've had that very model (Vista HCx) since I started hiking and it's been rock solid the whole time. The battery life on it with a pair of Eneloop rechargeables is more than any hike I've been on could deplete. My only real gripe is the control 'joystick' thingy can make moving around on a map a little tedious.

Grasshopper wrote: ..the HCx does not have an adequate design solution to hang your GPS on your pack shoulder strap.. the 60CSx has a great in the box solution with a relatively strong clip to attach high on your pack shoulder strap that the 60CSx unit attaches to;

Been using this one for a while and can't honestly say anything bad about it:
http://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Carabiner- ... ikearizona

That said, as well as it's worked for me for years, I'm a gear head, so I'm about ready to put my hat back into the ring for a new model. Maybe after getting a PLB...

pencak · Post by **pencak** » Mar 04 2010 9:48 pm

I got the Colorado precisely because it has a quad-helix antenna, which I thought was supposed to be better reception under tree canopies. I go to Central America and I need something that can get readings in the rain forest and in field tests it works great. The Colorado I have and the 8 or 10 car models from Garmin I have at work use proprietary map software. You can't get free maps as far as I know. However, once you buy the topos they seldom change. The street maps are another story and you should expect them to hit you up for the $100 update every year. As for topos get the regional maps. I believe they are 1:24,000 instead of the whole U.S. which is 1:100,000 (I'm guessing on the resolutions but you get the point.) I believe they have Europe covered as well but I don't know if they have the higher resolution regional maps like they do for the U.S. My Colorado works great. Upload/download is without a glitch, saved tracks, etc.
Useful software: ExpertGPS, GeoSetter, National Geographic TOPO.
I only use the Garmin Mapsource software to pull out saved tracks but ExpertGPS probably does that as well but I'm familiar with the Mapsource interface for doing that. ExpertGPS is excellent for drawing/modifying tracks and adding waypoints in preparation for a hike. It uploads to the Garmin without a hitch. Nat.Geo TOPO is great for printing (I always print a small map as a backup for the GPS.) Geosetter is the best geocoding photo software I've come across (free download BTW.) For the few hikes I've done where the trails are not on the topo maps (like South Mountain, White Tanks & San Tan) I used Bing and the free drawing tool to zoom in and see the trail on the satellite image. I can save the drawings to GPX and load them into ExpertGPS. However, that is practically unnecessary now that I've discovered HikeArizona.com with the thousands of GPS routes.

Robdice · Post by **Robdice** » Apr 06 2010 9:43 pm

I'm looking to go on my first solo backpacking trip the first weekend in May. I'm looking to get a GPS unit, but not sure which way to go. I'm looking at the Garmin eTrex Venture HC GPS Receiver. Can anyone tell me if they like this or maybe point me to a better one?

nonot · Post by **nonot** » Apr 06 2010 10:10 pm

I recommend you get a model that is HCx. The x is for expandable memory. You will likely find you want expandable memory sometime in the future.

JimmyLyding · Post by **JimmyLyding** » Apr 06 2010 10:27 pm

Get a Garmin because that's what is most-compatible with HikeArizona.COM. I've taken to using a leftover Blackberry stylus on my (mom's) Oregon 400t, and it works great when my hands are covered in grime, sweat, and sunscreen. The screen view definitely becomes degraded when it gets dirty. Take Joe's criticism of its visibility with a grain of salt because his 400t looks like it's been through a Cuisinart. That being written, however, the visibility in bright sunlight is not very good. I have better luck when I view the screen in the shadow of my big head, and let my pupils adjust to not focusing on a bright view.
Joe uses a 400t so you can bet that this site's routes won't be optimized for anything radically-different from that unit any time soon.
I don't know if the HC units have these features, but the 400t is very customizable and has some interesting features like sunrise/sunset for a given day and interacts with HikeArizona.COM very very well.

Grasshopper · Post by **Grasshopper** » Apr 07 2010 9:55 am

In response to Robdice:

I believe we have advised you on this same subject before:

"Re: Researching GPS
Postby Robdice » Jul 30 2009 2:25 pm

nonot wrote:I would recommend that you consider a bump to get a model that has HCx, the x is the expandable memory, useful for loading maps.

This is great info guys. Thanks for helping out.

Re: Researching GPS
Postby nonot » Jul 29 2009 7:36 pm
I would recommend that you consider a bump to get a model that has HCx, the x is the expandable memory, useful for loading maps.

Re: Researching GPS
Postby rlrjamy » Jul 29 2009 3:27 pm
The only thing I've heard about the lower end Garmins are the lack of memory. If you want to download lots of maps and routes you'll need to upgrade. Just what I heard never used a Venture. The reviews looked pretty good for it though.

Re: Researching GPS
Postby joe bartels » Jul 29 2009 3:07 pm
In response to Robdice:
It's a good choice in my opinion. I had the Vista for 3 days. That stupid inkling in the back of mind that I was buying an older model got the best of me. I returned it and got the Oregon. It's a piece of junk but they changed they're return policy that week so I'm stuck with it The newer model Oregons just came out and appear to have better screen resolution. At any rate the Venture works perfect and they've sold millions. You could step up to a Vista but personally I wouldn't bother.

Re: Researching GPS
Postby rlrjamy » Jul 29 2009 2:57 pm
I have a Garmin 60csx that I've been real happy with it... 98% of the time. Its about $300 on Amazon. A few others on here have the same one.

Researching GPS
Postby Robdice » Jul 29 2009 2:48 pm
I'm looking to buy my first GPS receiver. Right now I'm looking at the Garmin Venture HC GPS receiver. (http://www.rei.com/product/761620). Anyone know much about this? Or one in the $150-300 price range that is great?"

big_load · Post by **big_load** » Apr 07 2010 10:09 am

I was torn between the eTrex Vista HCx and the 60CSx. Somebody elsewhere that has both strongly preferred the 60CSx because he found the user interface easier to deal with, so I went that way. It wasn't much of an adjustment, because I already had a 60CS. The main advantage of the Vista is battery life and little weight.

The_Eagle · Post by **The_Eagle** » Apr 07 2010 10:40 am

I don't believe the Venture is avail in Hcx (just Hc)

When I was tring to decide on a GPS and getting lost with what GPS, had what feature, this is one of the sites I used.

I have it set up to compare (from less to more expensive)
- etrex Venture Hc
- etrex Legend Hcx (adds longer batt life, adds SD memory slot, 500 addt'l waypoints, auto routing, POI's)
- etrex Vista Hcx (adds electronic compass, bar alt.)
- 60Csx (adds larger screen, less batt life, ext ant. jack, tide tables!)

http://www.gpscity.com/compare/etrexven ... ahcx&60csx

I settled on a Vista hcx, but got a Legend hcx for Xmas and am very happy with it.

nonot · Post by **nonot** » Apr 07 2010 8:40 pm

I recommend you choose between the legend hcx and 60csx.
legend: better battery life, smaller size, best for backpacking long distances
60csx: better screen, larger screen, less battery life, best for dayhiking

I seldom use the compass and barametric altimiter on the vista hcx.

azbackpackr · Post by **azbackpackr** » Apr 08 2010 5:12 am

I have a 60Cx (not csx, but they are similar) and love it--it will do just about everything except wash the dishes. Too bad its operator is so dense...