Lower Verde River

gringoantonio · Post by **gringoantonio** » Sep 23 2009 1:30 pm

Has anyone ever paddled the Verde through the Fort Mcdowell reservation? If so, what did you think of the river between Box Bar RAP and the Salt? Was it difficult to get a permit? Expensive?

Thanks!

gringoantonio · Post by **gringoantonio** » Sep 24 2009 12:00 pm

Ehhhh, forget it. I just heard back from a res representative who told me that the reservation is closed and nobody is allowed to use the river for anything.

azbackpackr · Post by **azbackpackr** » Sep 24 2009 12:02 pm

gringoantonio · Post by **gringoantonio** » Sep 25 2009 5:28 pm

If anyone's interested, the river is at 611cfs right now, which is pretty fun for this stretch. Last time I went, the water was only at 258cfs and we had a blast. See pics:

http://hikearizona.com/photoset.php?ID=8287

Bartlett Dam to Box Bar RAP (on Box Bar Rd. south of Needle Rock) is about 8 miles. If you have 4WD you can drive farther down the dirt roads below Box Bar and add 2 miles to your paddling, before you hit the rez border. If you have 2WD and good clearance you can drive the same roads, but you'll have to park farther from the river and lug boats+gear to your vehicle.

AZ Hiking Shack rents inflatable NRS Maverik kayaks for only $35 w/ a PFD and dry bag. It's the best deal I've found anywhere in AZ. And the Maverik is one of the best IKs I've ever paddled. Far better than the Aire IKs.

azbackpackr · Post by **azbackpackr** » Sep 26 2009 4:29 am

I have a printout of a Bandit thumbtacked to the wall next to my computer. It's on my wish list! $895 for the I. A friend of mine has the II for multiday trips, holds a lot of gear. Also still on my wish list is a set of whitewater lessons--I found there are instructors in Phx. but it's a bit expensive. I have an old hardshell Perception Dancer ww kayak. That one needs serious lessons, of course--Eskimo Roll, bracing techniques, self-rescue techniques, etc., etc. I also have a Wilderness Systems tandem recreational kayak which we enjoyed using all last winter in Yuma, on the Colorado River and its lakes. I'm a serious wannabe...!

Azbackcountry · Post by **Azbackcountry** » Sep 26 2009 3:24 pm

azbackpackr wrote:I have a printout of a Bandit thumbtacked to the wall next to my computer. It's on my wish list! $895 for the I. A friend of mine has the II for multiday trips, holds a lot of gear. Also still on my wish list is a set of whitewater lessons--I found there are instructors in Phx. but it's a bit expensive. I have an old hardshell Perception Dancer ww kayak. That one needs serious lessons, of course--Eskimo Roll, bracing techniques, self-rescue techniques, etc., etc. I also have a Wilderness Systems tandem recreational kayak which we enjoyed using all last winter in Yuma, on the Colorado River and its lakes. I'm a serious wannabe...!

Just a thought but if you are looking to spend that much on a kayak, why not spend around the same amount for a packraft that you can easily carry with you on your hiking adventures into the back country? I know...they are expensive but I am glad I bought mine, it was worth every penny I spent on it. In fact, in the next year I plan on buying 1 more for friends to join me on adventures. I have used it to run the Verde twice now, both being multi-day trips. I plan on submitting for a permit to run the upper salt this coming spring, do that as a multi-day trip as well.

Anyways...check em out http://www.alpackaraft.com

PaleoRob · Post by **PaleoRob** » Sep 26 2009 5:53 pm

I like the looks of those packrafts. Would be nice to have for the Escalante, Dirty Devil, etc., and a great "fun" boat on the San Juan for others to play in.

azbackpackr · Post by **azbackpackr** » Sep 28 2009 10:32 am

They do look neat, although questions arise regarding their durability, since they are so light. However, they may be very useful for certain situations!

Azbackcountry · Post by **Azbackcountry** » Sep 28 2009 12:45 pm

azbackpackr wrote:They do look neat, although questions arise regarding their durability, since they are so light. However, they may be very useful for certain situations!

Perhaps you should read up a little on their packrafts at their forums, or better yet shoot an email to Roman Dial or Forrest McCarthy from their forums and ask them about the alpacka durability, since you think there will be problems in that regard. Kayaking may be fun and more useful for certain situations, but packrafting is growing fast and its opening up so many more possibilities to see new places and travel in a way that can't be done with a canoe or kayak. Read up on some of the trips Roman Dial and many others have posted trip reports for and video's on youtube, and then come back and see if you can still tell me that would have reservations about the durability of a packraft....if you do, I still wont believe you

Heck...you are more than welcome to try out my packraft any time you want. Just shoot me a PM and I'm sure we can meet up somewhere. You can look it over in fine detail and put it on the water and see for yourself how it feels and handles.

gringoantonio · Post by **gringoantonio** » Sep 28 2009 11:31 pm

Infra wrote: Perhaps you should read up a little on their packrafts at their forums, or better yet shoot an email to Roman Dial or Forrest McCarthy from their forums and ask them about the alpacka durability, since you think there will be problems in that regard. Kayaking may be fun and more useful for certain situations, but packrafting is growing fast and its opening up so many more possibilities to see new places and travel in a way that can't be done with a canoe or kayak. Read up on some of the trips Roman Dial and many others have posted trip reports for and video's on youtube, and then come back and see if you can still tell me that would have reservations about the durability of a packraft....if you do, I still wont believe you

Heck...you are more than welcome to try out my packraft any time you want. Just shoot me a PM and I'm sure we can meet up somewhere. You can look it over in fine detail and put it on the water and see for yourself how it feels and handles.

Infra,

What are the advantages of a packraft over an IK? Are they lighter? More maneuverable? Better tracking? Are any of them self-bailing? They look interesting and I'm curious...

Thanks!

azbackpackr · Post by **azbackpackr** » Sep 29 2009 3:23 am

Very interesting indeed, and thanks for the offer! Since all these things cost an arm and a leg, I am only wishing, not actually shopping, at this time. Thanks for the added info, too.

RedRoxx44 · Post by **RedRoxx44** » Sep 29 2009 4:30 am

I picked up two el cheapo Seyvelor packrafts that weigh under 4 lbs each. One will be a backup for my IK and one will be shall we say a possble disposable for a creek float I hope to get to in 2010. They are definitely not in the leaque with Alpacka, but I got both for a deal under 60 bucks. Paddles are cheesy. If you look at the Alpacka videos on youtube they are definitely tough, but packrafts are not as precise as IK esp with keels, but are smaller and backpackable as most IK are not.
I plan to backpack the Dirty Devil maybe next spring and will be taking a packraft for that.

Azbackcountry · Post by **Azbackcountry** » Sep 29 2009 7:08 am

gringoantonio wrote: Infra,

What are the advantages of a packraft over an IK? Are they lighter? More maneuverable? Better tracking? Are any of them self-bailing? They look interesting and I'm curious...

Thanks!

Well I have never owned an IK and know next to nothing about them, now with that being said...my alpacka definitely weighs much less than an IK, with the attached spray deck my packraft weighs 5lbs 4oz so it is definitely much much lighter than an IK. I have only been in an IK twice and from those experiences I DO believe that a packraft is much more maneuverable than an IK. As for tracking, packrafts are horrible but improves if you have weight on the bow such as your pack. They are not self bailing but you can get an attached spray deck which works great.

RedRoxx I have looked at those Seyvelor packrafts and they are what they are, I definitely would not even contemplate running white water in one of those. You definitely got a smokin deal on them thats for sure, and they have their uses. Dirty Devil with a packraft sounds fun...keep me in mind when that trip comes around!

My offer above is open to anyone who wants to try out the packraft. I am located in Tucson but could find a good reason to float the lower salt since I never have....and people can try out the packraft if they wish. Just post up if anyone is interested.

gringoantonio · Post by **gringoantonio** » Sep 29 2009 1:02 pm

Lower Verde is now at 920!

canyon trekker · Post by **canyon trekker** » Apr 19 2010 6:05 pm

I took the Verde from Needle Rock near Dynamite Road in Rio Verde down to a 1/2 mile above the Granite Reef dam a couple years ago. The water level was perfect at 900 c.f.s. and have been waiting since then for that perfect flow again.

The trip only has one small fast water pocket right after you pass under the bridge at the Beeline Highway.

All in all is was a great trip that took about 8 hours for the 23 miles.

The biggest pain was leaving a vehicle at both ends. It would help to have someone drop you and meet you at each end instead.

The bird life along the river is incredible with numerous bald eagle sightings.

I highy recommend this trip in a shorter kayak (like our Swifty's) and with a flow of 700-900 cfs.

sneakySASQUATCH · Post by **sneakySASQUATCH** » Apr 19 2010 7:27 pm

Pm me if any of you guys plan on getting out to the Verde. I have yet to paddle any rivers in Az. And my Jackson kayak is feeling neglected. I know there are a couple others that are posting some paddling triplogs lately. Might be cool to plan a day trip. Sounds like everyone has different floating preferences. I personally have never seen duckies and have only used ww kayaks and gone on large commercial ww rafts.

canyon trekker · Post by **canyon trekker** » Apr 19 2010 8:08 pm

Check the lower Verde daily and plan on going the next day.

Here's a link to the real-time water data from USGS.

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http://waterdata.usgs.gov/az/nwis/uv?cb_all_00060_00065_00045=on&cb_00060=on&cb_00065=on&format=gif&period=7&site_no=09511300

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