Keeping critters out of our food

[PA Hiker]

We'll be backpacking the Grand Canyon in a couple of weeks; spending nights at Hermit Creek, Monument Creek, and Indian Garden. We spend a week or two in AZ every year and we dayhiked the Canyon a couple of years ago (and we'll be spending a few days dayhiking the Santa Ritas and Superstitions before we start the backpack) so we aren't total greenhorns, but this will be our first AZ backpacking trip. In the Appalachians we hang our food at least 10' up to keep it from bears (and mice). My understanding is that bears won't be an issue on this trip but mice and ringtails definitely will. We've purchased an Ursack Minor with OpSak liner in the hope of foiling them. The Falcon Guide to the Grand Canyon recommends hanging food 4' off the ground using 30# fishing line. Is this sound advice?

[te_wa]

foodsack, or the other mesh steel sacks are good for larger animals, like ravens. mice can chew at the edges of your packaging or anything that may be near the loops of the chain-link style metal found in these bags.

Ursack is a winner. they cannot get into dyneema. just bring that.

[azbackpackr]

At Hermit Creek and Boucher Creek two weeks ago I hung an ordinary stuff sack with my food in it, no problems. My friend had a Ratsack. They couldn't get into it, but anywhere that the plastic bags inside came into contact with the mesh, as Te-wa said, they nibbled a little bit, tried to pull the plastic through. But, then again, my friend didn't hang the Rat Sack. http://www.armoredoutdoorgear.com/

There are racks at Hermit Creek for hanging up all your gear, including your backpack.

You can buy Rat Sacks at Peace Surplus in Flag.

Another thing to watch out for are the ravens. If you leave water bags lying around they will sometimes peck holes in them. I especially have had this problem if there is no good water source nearby. I learned to hide water bags under rocks. Have had no problems since with ravens.

[Al_HikesAZ]

Good advice so far. Bring the Ursack. A few other cautions. They will nibble your Camelbak mouthpiece so protect that. I had a habit of holding my Garmin 60Csx in my mouth by the antenna. No longer - the mice at Hermit Rapids nibbled a lot of the plastic off the antenna. Unzip your packs so that they don't nibble through trying to find what the smell was. Police your trash carefully.

I agree with Lizbeth - hide your water cache really well.

[PA Hiker]

Thanks all, that's a great help.
Speaking of water, the conventional wisdom seems to be a gallon per person per day. That seems to be based on summer conditions, though. Since we will have reliable water at each of our campsites (which we'll confirm with the BCO before starting out), and it will be fairly cool in late November, is that overkill? I was planning to calibrate our arid conditions water needs while dayhiking in the days before the backpack, and carry enough for a full day's hiking plus some extra (a liter each?). Does that sound reasonable? My goal is the enjoy the trip and not disturb SAR, but if I can eliminate a couple pounds of water from my pack without impacting those goals all the better.

[PLC92084]

I'm pretty sure 1 gal/day is not Summer recommendations in AZ (someone correct me if I'm wrong...)...

But... since it's late Nov and considering a gallon is equivalent to 3.785 liters, that's probably enough if you're just hiking around and not working up any kind of major sweat...

In So Cal, I usually burn through about 5 liters during the course of a long day hiking in warm temps. Where replenishment was a factor, I've carried up to 10 liters (ouch)...

[maxpower]

Water at Monument Creek was plentiful as always when I was there a few weeks ago. I've used it unfiltered with no issues, but your mileage may vary.

[joebartels]

I haven't read this whole thread so I apologize in advance if I missed something but personally I'd gauge water usage by mileage/AEG and days, not just days.

[hikeaz]

Ursack will work perfectly.
There is a hanging pole @ Hermit Creek for food/packs - that will keep the ground based critters at bay, and it will defeat the ravens as they have no purchase on which to 'work' on your pack. Water is perennial and was flowing very well last W/E.
Monument has no pack-hanging facilities, but the water is perennial and running very well last W/E. Suggest a hike up to the waterfall at the head of Monument or at least a trip down the narrows, just downstream of camp area.
I.G. has rocket boxes for food, so there is no worries there - the piped water is heavily chlorinated, but turned on year-round. For better tasting water I'd suggest the creek.

Santa Maria spring is trickleing (maybe 1 qt./5 min), but the (15 gal. +/-) basin is full - I'd carry maybe a quart down to there from Hermit's Rest and save your knees. From Hermit Creek over to Monument is short - maybe a 2 quart hike at most, more like 1. As you head east on the Tonto there will be trickles at Salt & Cedar and a good flow @ Horn - it's up to you whether to be bothered gathering water at these places. Water @ Salt will be below the trail crossing and Cedar will be above the crossing and maybe below as well. Horn will be just below the trail crossing and in the bedrock about 200' above the trail as well.
If you are planning to hike down to the River...... Both Hermit and Monument creeks go dry for a bit between the camp areas and the River, but the water will re-appear before you get to it.