SARSAT Beacons

azrocks · Post by **azrocks** » Oct 17 2002 12:16 pm

I was at a Cody Lundin presentation recently, and was struck by the absurdity of
lost hikers signaling with mirrors, whistles and forest fires, when since 1982 we have
had a satellite based Search and Rescue system that has saved 12000 lives worldwide.
It's easy to find web links to cute hand-held beacons the size of a Talkabout, but you
have to get it from Australia/Italy etc. and it's compatible but illegal in the US except
in Alaska, where they have had a pilot Personal Locator Beacon program for some years.
The issue is that early systems had a high false alarm rate, and personal use would
overload the system, but the latest 406 MHz standard is much better.
I saw a news report that hiker SARSAT would be legal throughout the US from July 2002.
Does anyone know the status, or when we might see these in REI ?

Wiz · Post by **Wiz** » Oct 17 2002 12:32 pm

Satellite Search and Rescue! Good Grief! What would the pioneers say!

azrocks · Post by **azrocks** » Oct 17 2002 12:44 pm

I think they mostly said "Oh Sh*t".

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Oct 17 2002 12:58 pm

I wonder what the people that had their lives saved by these things had to say...

Check out this link azrocks: http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/

Daryl · Post by **Daryl** » Oct 17 2002 1:00 pm

I know they use them a lot in avalance areas. I also heard because of the false alarms, the only time search and rescue will respond is when they know someone is missing or they know there's been an avalanche.
I haven't heard of search and rescue around here using them.

Personally, I think a map and compass, or a GPS would be a much smarter thing to carry. Instead of being prepared to get lost, try to prevent getting lost.

snow22_5150 · Post by **snow22_5150** » Oct 17 2002 1:21 pm

Hey Daryl,

Since you mention GPS, what would you say is the best model out there that is moderately priced?

ck_1 · Post by **ck_1** » Oct 17 2002 2:35 pm

This was in Wednesday's AZ Republic...

Lost? U.S. will allow beacons
Public can buy rescue devices

http://www.arizonarepublic.com/news/art ... con16.html

Nighthiker · Post by **Nighthiker** » Oct 17 2002 5:34 pm

I utilized a signal mirror on three occassions, two to show location for medical choppers and one for law enforcement. Good advise by Daryl, Snow 22; my gps device is an Etrex (base model) and at work we use the GPS 12 its a good unit also.

Daryl · Post by **Daryl** » Oct 17 2002 6:26 pm

As far as GPS's go the etrex series is very easy to use. The basic one (yellow) is about $100 and will do just about everything you want. You can step up and get the version with maps programed in if you plan on using it to navigate around town.
The etrex is also very durable and supposedly fairly water proof.

If you carry one while hiking, always mark the trail head as a waypoint so you can find your way back without even having to think.

snow22_5150 · Post by **snow22_5150** » Oct 18 2002 7:31 am

Awesome! Thanks for the info!

SuperstitionGuy · Post by **SuperstitionGuy** » Feb 02 2006 1:31 pm

Lets reopen the subject of PLBs.

I will be searching this summer in the Unita Mtns for the remains of a missing 12 year old Boy Scout (Garret bardsley). Last year (2005) I also searched but had to do so solo as everyone else have given up the search effort. He was lost August of 2004.

Not wanting to become another lost sole I want to purchase a PLB by July of this summer. There is information on various web sites but I would like to know from the users of this forum if they have any first hand knowledge about the products available.

The prices are coming down and they are now legal in the US.

If I were to purchase one today is there anybody out there that would be willing to rent mine (at very reasonable rates) when I am not using it?

You can online change the registration and thusly share a unit.

Your comments would be appreciated....

justind145 · Post by **justind145** » Feb 03 2006 10:27 am

Having been on many searches that are centered around an ELT/PLB, I can tell you that these things are not the save all end all. Unless there is an accompanying signal (i.e. aircraft wreckage, fire, other unnatural disturbance) than they only serve to get search teams in the ball park. Additionally, for a ELT/PLB to activate the SAR system, it has to be picked up by the SARSAT which in some cases can take 12 hours. The unit is also susceptible to atmospheric distrotion and disturbance and the signal can only be received line of site, thus mostly useless in a canyon. The 121.5 mhz signal reflects and travels through anything metallic (power lines, fences and even strong mineral veins.) The 406 mhz beacons solve this problem a bit by combining GPS technology, but they are still rather pricey and not all units have the equipment that works with the high end beacons, and still rely on the accompanying 121.5 signal.

azbackpackr · Post by **azbackpackr** » Apr 24 2006 6:20 pm

I read about that lost Scout in the Uintas! I admire you for going back again to search for him. What a tragedy that was, still is.

I'm a member of Apache Rescue Team in Eagar AZ, and recently got a State of New Mexico Search and Rescue certification. And what did they require in our jump bag? A signal mirror and whistle, just in case we, the searchers, get lost! That beacon probably would be a good thing. As long as it is not too bulky or heavy.

SuperstitionGuy · Post by **SuperstitionGuy** » Apr 25 2006 7:05 pm

They are quite small, very portable but still very expensive. Sometime in the future the GPS folks will probably bring the PLB feature into their more expensive hand held products.

Following is a good site for information on PLB's
http://www.equipped.com/faq_plb/default.asp

I am still looking for a partner or two to share this device with. I will use it this summer from July through October but the rest of the year I won't have to much need for it.

Any SOBs out there?
(Solo Off-trail Backpackers)

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Apr 25 2006 8:52 pm

Seems at $750 you either

buy it and tell yourself that's cheap insurance, cause you ain't spending that money if your dead

or

if you can't afford it, be smart
- study the area your are entering in detail
- leave a solid itinerary and stick to it, a cheap gps unit will keep you on track if you can't read a map
Though that obviously looses value on long backpacks.

Not sure I'd enter into a share on that bad boy with such stiff penalties on false alarms.

But if your willing to go that route, buy it, use it, then sell it on ebay. Much cheaper then that $50 per week

rental gouge.

BTW... you can RENT a satellite phone for $40 per week (or buy used $300)
phone a friend, give them your coordinates and save the embarrassment and possible fee of a rescue. Plus you don't have to go through all the starving/dieing stuff waiting for the rescue

wetbeaverlover · Post by **wetbeaverlover** » Apr 26 2006 7:17 am

I agree with you 100%..Careful planning, weather, water, food and shelter considerations and letting others KNOW your destination, time frames and routes and understanding your strengths, AND OR limitations when traipsing through the wild country is FAR better insurance(and much cheaper) than relying on the Starship Enterprise and crew to come save the day when you get lost in the wilderness. Besides, McGyver would just rig up a LandSat commo system with a couple pine cones, his belt buckle and bootlaces

Old Bill Williams would be rolling in his grave : king :

Al_HikesAZ · Post by **Al_HikesAZ** » Apr 26 2006 4:38 pm

wetbeaverlover wrote:..Careful planning, weather, water, food and shelter considerations and letting others KNOW your destination, time frames and routes and understanding your strengths, AND OR limitations when traipsing through the wild country is FAR better insurance(and much cheaper) than relying on the Starship Enterprise and crew to come save the day when you get lost in the wilderness. . . .

Sometimes the unexpected happens!
We're not talking about simply being lost. A PLB is only for life or death situations. It is not a panacea, but it does tilt the survival odds in your favor.

You are bushwhacking miles from nowhere where no one has gone before (or will likely go in the near future), its noon on Saturday and you are expected back at 7:00 when your hiking partner a) has a diabetic reaction or b) a stroke or c) gets hit by lightning or d) leans on a bush that collapses causing a 30 foot fall and unconsciousness. What does all your planning do for you now?

I carry an ARC Terrafix 406 I/O on most serious group hikes (A or B depending on location) and on solo hikes where I am hiking in places where cell phones won't work and it could be days before I'm found. I won't carry it this Saturday going to Humphrey's Summit. It weighs 12 oz and maybe it's just the Boy Scout in me, but I feel better prepared with it. Or maybe I just watched too many Felix the Cat cartoons when I was young.

The ARC Terrafix 406 I/O notifies Sarsat within 5 minutes and provides location within 10 meters - not pinpoint but at least it's close. Get out the mirror, use the bandage tape to make a big X and stay calm. SURVIVE.

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Apr 26 2006 4:46 pm

wetbeaverlover wrote:You are bushwhacking miles from nowhere where no one has gone before (or will likely go in the near future), its noon on Saturday and you are expected back at 7:00 when your hiking partner a) has a diabetic reaction or b) a stroke or c) gets hit by lightning or d) leans on a bush that collapses causing a 30 foot fall and unconsciousness. What does all your planning do for you now?

I misunderstood. I thought you had to push an activation button.

Al_HikesAZ · Post by **Al_HikesAZ** » Apr 26 2006 4:56 pm

joe bartels wrote:I misunderstood. I thought you had to push an activation button.

You release the antenna, flip up a protective cover and push 2 buttons on the I/O model which has GPS built in. On other models you have to connect a GPS by a cable before pushing the buttons.

If I'm unconscious I would be SOL (or DOA), but if I'm conscious or it's someone in the group, the biggest delay is pulling it from my pack. And I don't whip it out unless it is a life or death situation. A few of the hike leaders I enjoy hiking with know that I carry it, and until know no one else even knew.

The ARC 406 Terrafix 406 I/O picture

FAQs on PLBs

ps: I hope I never need to use it.

RedRoxx44 · Post by **RedRoxx44** » Apr 26 2006 5:44 pm

I guess I am a dinosaur with all this technology. I think it is good, trying to find those ill equipped to be in the wilderness lost, experienced folks who have suffered an accident.

For me, I sometimes go out without a map, compass or anything. And off trail. Our ancestors figured out their way around ( with lots of death from getting lost, no water, falling off cliffs etc.). A lot of them survived, or we wouldn't be here today. I like to study the land, the sky etc. A lot of times it will tell you where you are. I got separated from a group up on the Mongollon rim last year. I guided myself by the setting sun to a road and hiked out. Hooked up with them on the road.

We are separated from nature in todays' world, rely on marked trails or things to tell us where we are. IMO, the less reliance on that in "everyday" hiking, the better. If you want it for an extreme remote adventure, then that may be advisable.

SARSAT Beacons

SARSAT Beacons

Personal Locator Beacons

PLB's