Private firms charge for trail, picnic site use...

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There is a forest concessionaire in charge of the area and you will have to pay the concessionaire to park. The Tonto Pass is NOT valid for this area. Parking fees must be paid to the concessionaire.

What kind of nonsense is this? There are separate troll permits outside the Tonto Pass? Is there a good reason for this absurd complication?

[chumley]

What kind of nonsense is this? There are separate troll permits outside the Tonto Pass? Is there a good reason for this absurd complication?

You ask that as if it's somehow surprising? Nearly all NF campgrounds are run by a concessionaire. I'm guessing that since the campground was destroyed by the fire, the concessionaire is still trying to hold on to some of the revenue that they were "promised" in whatever contract they have with the fs.

Of course, it wasn't previously a fee area for day use, so that's BS anyway. I figure if I have to pay a fee for a daytime recreation area on taxpayer funded land there should at least be a full-time ranger out there writing fines for people littering and burning the place down.

[Dschur]

What kind of nonsense is this? There are separate troll permits outside the Tonto Pass? Is there a good reason for this absurd complication?

Forest fee plan spurs protest
Ranger district plans to have private firms charge for trail, picnic site use
By Pete Aleshire

April 19, 2011

The Tonto National Forest’s decision to expand its use of private contractors to run campgrounds, day-use sites and possibly trails in the Payson Ranger District has triggered protests by a group fighting fees on public lands.

Supporters say the proposal for bids from concessionaires will merely expand the program from half a dozen existing campgrounds to include the new day-use areas along the East Verde River and other sites.

“It works well in districts that don’t have a lot of staff people,” said Greg Schuster, a recreation specialist with the Tonto National Forest’s headquarters in Phoenix. “Payson has traditionally been a concession district.”

Critics say the proposal represents an end-run around court cases that prevent the Forest Service from charging fees for lightly developed facilities — like hiking trails and roadside parking.

“The Forest Service defends recreation fees by claiming that they retain the money and use it to directly benefit the place you visited. But by leasing federally owned recreation facilities to private firms, they completely discredit that argument. These fees are just another tax and concessionaires are just private tax collectors,” said Kitty Benzar, president of the Western Slope No-Fee Coalition, based in Colorado.

Much of the debate centers on a string of day-use picnic areas along the East Verde River, where the Forest Service added paved parking and toilets in the wake of the Wagon Wheel Fire that two years ago started near an unregulated, informal camping area and threatened to consume both Beaver Valley and Whispering Pines.Other sites on the bid list are Christopher Creek, Horton Creek, Midway and Flowing Springs. None of these sites have undergone a review that establishes they meet federal standards for fees, say the no-fee coalition.

The debate gains an added wrinkle for local residents because the private concessionaires will not have to honor the Tonto Forest Pass, which allows unlimited access to Forest Service-run sites for $80 to $95 annually. They will also not honor national passes or passes for seniors or those with disabilities.The proposal would require the concessionaires to give a 50 percent discount for seniors and to issue an annual pass for all the sites operated by the concessionaire. Currently, fees for the privately run campgrounds in the district range from $14 to $20 per car.

The existing campsites generate about $344,000 annually in fees. The concessionaire must pay a minimum of $18,000 to the district to get the contract.

Schuster said officials at the forest office are reviewing the complaint. The current schedule calls for the private contractors to submit bids by May 7.

The Forest Service hopes to award a bid by the end of the year. In the meantime, the Forest Service will continue to manage the sites.

Some local residents have decried the plan to impose fees on anyone who takes advantage of the parking in the new East Verde sites to hike the river and fish.

The rules continue to ban camping along the river and campfires. They say they’ll have to now pay a fee to use areas in which they’ve long enjoyed hiking, camping and fishing.

Moreover, they may have to buy one annual pass to use the areas run by the concessionaires and a separate pass to use Forest Service-operated areas in the rest of the forest, which includes Roosevelt Lake and the string of lakes along the Salt River near Phoenix.

On the other hand, some local residents welcome the fees and the increased supervision of the areas along the East Verde, where campers often leave trash and smoldering campfires.

The Western Slope Coalition has gotten involved on the grounds that the proposal represents the camel’s nose under the tent of a big increase in fees.

Federal law and previous court cases have held that the Forest Service and the Bureau of Land Management can only charge fees for developed amenities, like toilets, campgrounds and boat ramps. Judges have ruled the Forest Service can’t impose fees for things like hiking across public lands, parking alongside the road and undeveloped campsites.

However, the Coalition insisted that the inclusion of day-use areas and trailheads on the list of sites to be managed is an effort to circumvent that legal limitation by using private contractors.

Previously, the Coalition helped challenge the Red Rock fee imposed by the Coconino National Forest in Sedona. That prompted a court ruling the Forest Service could not charge for parking in an undeveloped area or hiking across public land.

“This new prospectus vastly expands the number of fee sites and puts them into private hands,” said Benzar.

“It’s a clear attempt to evade federal legal requirements and prohibitions on where fees can be charged.

“What’s more, the new concessionaire would not be required to honor federally issued recreation passes that are legally required to be accepted at day-use sites, but would instead be allowed to create and market their own annual pass, keeping all the revenue from both pass sales and use fees.”

Benzar said the need to get both a Tonto Forest pass and a separate pass from the concessionaire would make the Payson Ranger District “the most expensive federal recreational land in the country.”

The proposal says the concessionaire cannot charge people solely for parking, picnicking along roads or trail sides, general access, use of “dispersed areas with low or no investment,” driving or hiking through the area, undeveloped campsites, stopping at scenic pullouts, use of the roads or waterways or extra services needed as a result of a disability.

However, the permit also includes a list of trailheads that could be included in the contract. Those ”optional” trailheads include See Canyon, Pine, Fossil Springs, the East Verde Picnic Area and the Flowing Springs Picnic Area.Schuster said “just because it’s included in the contract doesn’t mean it’s a fee area.” For instance, he said a concessionaire might offer to put trash facilities or a portable toilet at the trailhead without charging a fee to sweeten the deal in hopes of getting the contract for the developed campgrounds.

He said the fees have to roughly match the fees charged in the campgrounds and recreational facilities in the rest of the forest.

Generally, the Forest Service charges $6 per day for most facilities and $10 a day for specialized facilities, like the boat ramps at Saguaro and Canyon lakes.

However, the concessionaires already operating in the Payson District charge $14-$20 for the existing developed campgrounds, which include toilets, group facilities, campfire rings, tables and other facilities.

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Thanks for the info, Dawn. I'd rather see it all administered through the FS with costs incorporated into the Tonto Pass, even if private contractors do some of the actual work. The patchwork is beyond difficult for outsiders to keep up with. I'll go a step farther: even a lot of people who ought to know are wrong about what fees apply to which areas, especially the vendors who sell them. I also don't trust private vendors to enforce fees fairly after watching what went on with the fee demonstration program at the Superstitions trailheads.

[Nighthiker]

Visit the Tonto National Forest website and review dispersed camping on the Payson Ranger District at this time.

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@Nighthiker You raise an interesting point. It is possible to find that information on their site, but not always by the most obvious way. For example, check out this paragraph on the Tonto Pass FAQ page:

Who will need to purchase a Tonto Pass?
This is a pass for use in developed recreation sites on the Tonto National Forest. Visitors to the forest will be required to display the Tonto Pass in their vehicles when recreating at these sites. The Tonto Pass is a local forest pass, required only on the Tonto National Forest. Go to the link below to view a listing of the recreation sites that require a recreation fee.

Designated Recreation Sites

If you click on the link for the URL of Designated Recreation Sites, this is the message that appears:

Content could not be located

Of course it is possible to find fee sites by other means. The Lower Tonto Creek is confusing, because it is listed under the "Dispersed Camping" heading, but the entry says day use only, and it lists a fee of $8.00 without reference to whether that's a concessionaire.

[Nighthiker]

Possible plan to limit/restrict dispersed camping in the Payson Ranger District. Some existing areas for designated camping areas that have few improvements will be turned into day use and vendor operated.

[WilliamnWendi]

I was curious about this new fee at Horton Creek TH. I wanted to know if it was accurate, and why it was so much higher than the National Forest's usual rates. My google search resulted this PDF by SAHC [ 2020-05-19 dead link removed ]
SAHC posted this back in April. Read it for yourself but I will summarize.


Our taxes and use fees paid for amenities at recreational sites and now(?) new fees collected by private firms for the use of these trails and amenities. These private firms are not required to reinvest any portion of the money back in to the sites where the money was collected. They are not required to honor National Forest Annual passes or similar pass vehicles. Further more as I read it the sites may not even meet the National Forests standards for their Recreational Sites.
Does anyone have other info? Horton Creek was one of the sites listed as a candidate for this fee affront but I am not sure if they came to their senses or did indeed loose control of them. I haven't been to Horton yet, Wendi and I have planned it for this or the following weekend.
I have never minded paying fees, I am a stickler for paying them even on the honor system because I know that my money goes to benefit the land and residing flora and fauna, which is a benefit to me. This however, makes no conscionable sense. Please say it ain't so. We already paid for the construction, we pay for their upkeep, why would we would allow a third party to come in and charge a surcharge without placing some/all of the burden of construction and maintenance on them?

[paulhubbard]

Wow, that stinks! I heard some rumblings about this a while ago, but I thought (for some reason?) that the proposal had been shot down. I hope they put up big signs that inform people that the money they're about to shell out is filling the pockets of a private company and does NOT go towards site improvement/maintenance.

Google search "tonto forest private fees" and you'll find tons of stuff about protests, etc.

Sounds like letters to our state representatives are in order!

[WilliamnWendi]

The forest service website lists Recreation Resource Management 2100 North Houston Mesa Road Payson, AZ 85541 Phone: (928) 468-7135 as concessionaire for Upper Tonto Creek, which is near Horton Creek, safe to assume the same company is running both?

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... so much higher than the National Forest's usual rates. ...
... These private firms are not required to reinvest any portion of the money back in to the sites where the money was collected. ...
... Further more as I read it the sites may not even meet the National Forests standards for their Recreational Sites. ...

[joebartels]

Tonto Forest seeks plan to reduce fees
The Payson Ranger District continues to study the impact of imposing fees on people who use day-use areas and trailheads, in the shadow of legal challenges and complaints.

Tonto National Forest Acting Manager Tom Klabunde said the Payson Ranger District will likely work out lower fees and a low-cost annual pass that will reduce the expense of using parking areas and trailheads, especially for... [ 2020-05-19 dead link removed ]

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It's nice that they want to reduce fees, or offer a lower-cost pass. However, it really doesn't address the basic problem.

“If the Payson District concessionaire is allowed to establish their own day-use pass, that will make at least six types of fees or passes to keep track of in order to commit recreation on the Tonto National Forest,” said Benzar.

Visiting a National Forest should not require so much time researching who needs to be paid, how (or if) payment can be made in advance (and from a distance), and how to obtain valid proof of payment (and get it accepted as such by legitimate enforcers and paid lackeys).

[nonot]

Not to mention the Tonto Natl Forest is cited as the forest service with the worst record for trail maintenance in the nation. Fees will not help, other than to feed their overspending on things unrelated to hiking.

[Dschur]

New pass would allow use of East Verde day-use sites
By Pete Aleshire

July 22, 2011
A new, $15 annual pass will provide unlimited use of the day-use sites along the East Verde River and popular trailheads such as Horton Creek and See Canyon, but the new pass may not calm the critics of fees charged by private companies to use public lands.

Residents can buy the annual pass at the Houston Mesa Campground. The pass only covers the East Verde sites.

The $85 Tonto National Pass provides access to Forest Service operated sites on the 6-million-acre forest, but doesn’t...

For more information see [ 2020-05-19 dead link removed ]

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but the new pass may not calm the critics of fees charged by private companies to use public lands.

Good call there.

At least it's a step in the right direction, especially for more frequent visitors. It's a good political move for the contractors, since it may damp down more local opposition, but it does nothing to address the complexity of the payment landscape and seems to increasingly target outsiders. Also, since I expect most users are in the frequent visitor category, it begs the question of how fair the price was to begin with. If you can offer a whole year of access for the previous cost of two days, somebody was getting a really bad deal, and I don't think it was the contractor.

[Nighthiker]

Looks like the recreation sites along the East Verde will become day use only including Verde Glen. Also Tonto Creek will also become day use only including Horton Creek.