FR25A

[Grasshopper]

On 11/4/06 & 2/9/07 I was in FR25A the 3 miles back to the South end beginning of Trail#86 (The Cornucopia Tr),..IF you plan to drive in (any portion) on "FR25A", I strongly recommend that to safely do so, you have a 4x4 vehicle with 31" Tires minimum, and a Rear Axle Locker, unless you plan to drive in on an ATV .

[Sredfield]

My concern is whether one could get a tracked trail machine into FR Trail 260 from FR 25 via FR 25A. Once at trail 260 you could rebuild quite a bit of trail that really needs it.

After the fire, wasn't FR25A permanently gated and locked at its intersection with FR25? Prior-to the fire and subsequent FR25A road damage further in, FR25A was a fairly serious 4WD Club Route to it's end at the TR260 intersection area (with TR260 a uphill to connect with the AZT Trail #95 connection).

I don't really know, but I would guess you would need a beefed-up, modified roll cage installed on a "tracked trail machine" thinking someone could drive that in. It would roll at least 12 times before arriving at the TR260/FR95 intersection and you would never find anyone crazy enough to drive it back out

I haven't been up FR 25A, but I know they hauled a bunch of stuff out of that area on it after the fire so a lot of it was passable. And if approved by the FS, getting past the gates shouldn't be an issue. A machine can get to about half a mile north of the FT 86/260 junction from the north, then the trail drops into the wash and goes over a couple drop offs that don't look very passable. May be able to hang the trail above the wash, I bet that is where it was originally. Have to decide whether rebuilding it where it is or rebuilding the alternate route makes the most sense. And we thought these trails were just "there" . . .

[hikerdw]

We hiked down 25a on October 26 and did see a few jeeps making there way up. Where we passed them they were making their way past a very difficult spot where one driver was driving all three jeeps past, one at a time, I suppose since he was the most experienced jeep driver. Here is one picture I took of the road if it helps.

http://hikearizona.com/photo=369621

[BobP]

here is another picture of that same spot...mine was from april http://hikearizona.com/photo=331098

[mazatzal]

Have to decide whether rebuilding it where it is or rebuilding the alternate route makes the most sense.

Where it is makes the most sense to me. Reroute? 86 & 260 seems like a weird jog to the SE and then back west?

[Sredfield]

The case for a reroute from the current location is that the current location is all way too steep. And it corners a Wilderness area in which rebuilding by machine doesn't work. Given the remote location getting volunteers to do it is difficult, so it will have to be done by paid crew and maybe a few ultra hardy volunteers. Just have to weigh the options and none appear compelling just yet. If a machine can get to the west end of 260, and that is by no means clearly possible yet, realigning and rebuilding the existing route with a combination of hand crews and machine may be the best.

Maybe I'll hike up Sycamore Creek this weekend, but I suspect it has been rearranged by the floods.

[mazatzal]

I understand about the steep parts of Thicket and Saddle. I was up at McFarland Cyn in October and the descent is a mess but still okay for hikers only.

I think it would take a lot of work to get a machine up Cornucopia and/or 260.
hikerdw just did 260 and I'm pretty sure it is still overgrown and contours along a narrow path above the creek that would need to be widened. Cornucopia does the same thing across an unstable, scary scree slope.

[CannondaleKid]

We hiked down 25a on October 26 and did see a few jeeps making there way up.

I'm a bit surprised by that because I was told by the FS it was unlikely they would re-open 25A for years if not longer. And when I was out to Mormon Grove TH on October 24 on the way back out I started going north on 25A but within a few hundred yards I came to the locked gate. Next time I drive by the Mesa FS office I'll stop in and ask them about it again.

[mazatzal]

I think you can drive around the gate

[CannondaleKid]

I think you can drive around the gate

I guess there's always those that will do that.

[CannondaleKid]

I checked with the Forest Service and although they (the FS) have done work on it, FR25A is CLOSED to vehicle traffic and will continue to be for a long time to come. The main concern is the number of trees in precarious positions that could fall onto vehicles.

Taking another look at photos I took near the gate on October 10th, bypassing it in close proximity doesn't appear very feasible. So if that group of Jeeps was past the gate, they either broke the lock (which the FS admits happens often enough) or bypassed they gate somehow. No matter how they got past the gate, it does not bode well for the future. Whether just lawless or monumentally stupid folks, their antics may keep the area locked down even longer.

[Sredfield]

We hiked up FR 25A yesterday, what a nice little trip!

The gate was open and there had been considerable vehicle traffic, we drove in a few hundred yards to a wide spot on top of the hill. The F150 could have gone farther but probably not been able to turn around if we had. There had been vehicle traffic of some sort for quite a ways; a motor bike had gone all the way and even past the 260 junction. I heard that there were fresh motor bike tracks on the AZT south of Sunflower--maybe someone was out exploring in a hurry.

I did get my answer to whether a trail machine could navigate up FR25A and beyond the official end of it to the 260 junction. I believe it could, but will reserve final determination to those with more experience than me. There are a few spots where it would be kind of dicey but I think it could make it. Will keep churning this decision for a while.

An advantage to southern approach is that the north end is really subject to weather conditions. We attempted to get to the Mt Peeley TH but the north slopes still have snow and mud from the storm last week. Puckered up a few times and turned around about a mile short of the end. I factored in the difficulty in getting help should something go awry plus it was just a joy ride to begin with. It cost me nearly $300 to get a tow several years ago on that road, don't need a repeat. We met a tow truck on our way in, so it happe

This was a nice little surprise of a trip. We enjoyed "discovering" the mine ruins--bath tub, mine shafts, water works, and the old blue bus.