Hell's Gate-memorial day weekend trip

pfredricks · Post by **pfredricks** » May 06 2003 12:10 pm

Does anyone have any interest in a 3 day 2 night memorial day weekend trip?? I personally dont have a destination picked out, but, would like to do a trip that weekend. Anyone?
Thanks
Pete

pfredricks · Post by **pfredricks** » May 11 2003 3:54 pm

OH well if they are that cheap, then forget about it. I'll go check that out on Monday. I thought that it would be like 60 bucks or so. I would love to hear about your test run. I will try a few things out myself. Will also report results. IF I am planning to be out in the middle of nowhere for four days, I dang sure want to have dry gear. I just want to be sure this will work.
THanks so much for your time and help

mttgilbert · Post by **mttgilbert** » May 11 2003 4:42 pm

O.K. I just threw my bag in the pool and The results were definately positive. I got two sizes of the bags, one small one for inside the pack (just in case) and the large one for the outside of the bag. I put the bag into the large waterproof bag, then I blew up the bag and tied it off using the attached strings (a nice feature). Then I tied it all up again with a length of nylon cord. The other end of this cord could be attached to a belt or an ankle to facilitate hands-free swimming. The bag weighed around 15 lbs and floated just fine. I dragged the bag around the pool and the bag withstood the rough edges of the pool deck. The bag I got wasn't large enough to hold a pair of shoes though, if I were going I would get a seperate bag for my boots and socks and then carry a lightweight pair of water shoes (walmart - $3.00).

Hope that helps,

...now I wish I was going with you...

jimserio · Post by **jimserio** » May 11 2003 5:34 pm

Matt,

Thanks for the tests. Did you get any idea if the bag could hold more weight (30lbs)? What pack did you test this with?

...now I wish I was going with you...

What's stopping you?

Coaster

mttgilbert · Post by **mttgilbert** » May 11 2003 7:11 pm

All right, I use a camelbak Transformer http://www.camelbak.com/mil/cb_prod.cfm ... uct_id=154. The waterproof bag is something like a 3.5 - 4 gallon bag (if that means anything to you). Since the whole thing was proportionatly smaller than the one you would be using I think it would definately hold more weight if you had a bigger bag.

Incedentally the transformer is the bag I use for 2-3 day backpacks in the summer, so if you could get away with bag this size also, you'd be all set.

I am still trying to get time off of work (yes I know its a holiday) and also time off from my fiance

If I can get the time I will go, but so far it doesn't look good...

Added Later:

So now that we have discussed, at length, how to get across water with a bag, does anyone know the answer to the question that sparked all this; will there be a lot of water crossings. I would also be interested in knowing what type of hikers you are, I tend to hike slowly, I like to take everything in and I find myself easily distracted along the trail. I would like to try and come along but I also don't want to slow anyone down. Also how much equipment is really needed for a trip like this, I never do water trips and the bulk of my backpacking trips have been overnighters or two nights. If anyone has an equipment list they would like to share with me I would appreciate it.

jimserio · Post by **jimserio** » May 11 2003 10:33 pm

Maybe Kurt can better answer this as I've never done this type of trip (done part of the Zion Narrows but not overnight) but it seems that water won't be an issue. So tablets or a filter and a quart or two would suffice. Other than that and a pair of water shoes and maybe a swim suit, the rest seems to be standard backpacking fare (sleeping bag, food, stove, medical, light, dry clothes, etc). From the photos of the Tonto (and from Kurt) looks like a tent is won't be necessary (or even a possibility) so we'll be sleeping under the stars on the banks.

I hike at a rather quick pace (a month on the PCT with a tight schedule will do that to you). I tend to "take it in" during rest stops although I tend to push myself harder than necessray so stops aren't plentiful.

Regarding your pack... are you able to fit a tent and bag in there (what tent/bag do you have?) with enough food and water for 2-3 days? How much water are we talking about? I'm looking for a smaller day-pack and something that can double as an internal pack (I mainly use an external) would be a plus. Any local dealers carry this?

mttgilbert · Post by **mttgilbert** » May 11 2003 10:55 pm

I don't use a tent, never felt the need to in summer in Arizona. I don't use a sleeping bag either, I have a military poncho liner I use as a blanket, and if there is any chance of needing a shelter I throw the poncho in as well (the liner ties in and the poncho folds over and buttons into itself turning into something like a waterproof sleeping bag, which has worked for short downpoors but I imagine would be very uncomfortable if I had to use it for an extended duration). Overall I sleep warm anyway but I also carry several layers of clothing wich I have found to keep me warm in those colder moments. As a base layer I use a jersey-type shirt (its almost fishnet) and then I put a wool button-down shirt over that. Then I have a down vest to cover that. I usually end up using the vest as a pillow though. I have an open cell foam pad with water resistant cover that straps on to the outside of the pack (its described in one of johnnycakes topics) For food I take mostly jerky and dried fruit, or sometimes I take MREs, basically anything that I don't have to cook. I still carry a pocket esbitt stove and military hexamine tablets, they are only good for boiling water or heating something up, but I like to have my tea. The bag has a 102 oz bladder, which will usually see me through two days in moderate weather. If I intend to be out much longer than that I carry a First Need water filter. There are a few other things I cram into the bag also like map, compass, monocular, extra underwear and socks. The whole setup with food and water usually weighs in around 22 pounds. Overall its been a good setup, it has its drawbacks but its worked for me so far.

I am actually interested in setting up a larger internal frame pack for longer and multi-season trips. I would like a pack that can hold about 3000 ci. Unfortunatly I am "financially challenged" and won't go buy a brand new pack, I just keep my eyes on ebay...

The pack I use is a military camelbak and can only be ordered through a couple of places that I know of. I ordered it from larada's, but for any special order on camelbaks it takes like 6 months to get.

hikeaz · Post by **hikeaz** » May 12 2003 9:50 am

We will swim a minimum of 11 pools of varying lengths.

I have used the doubled (one sealed and then placed inside another, sealed) trash compactor bags numerous times. I have always taken 2 more as backup, and have never used one of the spares.
Remember... the trash compactor bags are placed INSIDE your pack. So the only things that you need to watch would be any sharp edges on items like stoves, etc. A sock can be placed over items like these.
The bags mentioed as available @ Larada's sound good, as well. Especially as they are reinforced. As I do a lot of rafting & canoeing, and already have one, I'll be bringing a Boundary Bag. Basically it is a dry bag with shoulder & waist straps, like a backpack.

Yes, your pack will get wet. But in the end of May it'll likely feel good.

Otherwise, in order that your pack will not be too cumbersome, go as light as possible. Synthetics and fleece dry super-fast in the hot, dry, May air. Wool, as well, is good.

"Do not burn yourself out. Be as I am-a reluctant enthusiast...a part time crusader, a half-hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the land; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it is still there. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forests, encounter the grizz, climb the mountains, bag the peaks. Run the rivers, breathe deep of that yet sweet and lucid air, sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness, that lovely, mysterious and awesome space. Enjoy yourselves, keep your brain in your head and your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much: I promise you this one sweet victories over our enemies, over those deskbound people with their hearts in a safe deposit box and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this You will outlive the SOB's"
Author unknown

mttgilbert · Post by **mttgilbert** » May 12 2003 12:41 pm

So how many people are you expecting on this trip?

jimserio · Post by **jimserio** » May 12 2003 1:19 pm

Any idea what the water temp of the Tonto will be this time of year?

hikeaz · Post by **hikeaz** » May 12 2003 1:42 pm

Figuring that the HikeArizona group will net 2-3; I'd say 10 total.

Water temps.... I'd guess maybe 65/67 degrees F. +/-

hikeaz · Post by **hikeaz** » May 12 2003 1:44 pm

Follow the flow rate of Tonto Creek here >> http://waterdata.usgs.gov/az/nwis/uv?fo ... o=09499000

pfredricks · Post by **pfredricks** » May 13 2003 1:16 am

Matt-
I drove from Peoria to Larada's today based on your suggestion. What a deal only 4.95 for this thing. I am really impressed. It is a very light nylon canvas that is rubber lined and waterproof. I probably spent more on gas getting over there.
Coaster- What part of town do you live in? I will proably be bringing at least my rainfly for my tent, so as to have shelter if need be. I do not like getting rained on. You may share this with me if you wish. My footwear of choice will probably be those TEVA things this site is so famous for. I would imagine you would only need to carry enough water for the first six miles. I have a good filter. IF you would like to get together and plan meals we could do that too. I already have all the food that I plan on taking. I usually have enough VOdka in my flask to share, but with this being a poss. four day trip. You should probably bring some back up, if you like that stuff :-)
Kurt- Where would one park their car at the end of this trip. Specifically that is.
Great info on the Tonto BTW.
I am sure you all know this, but for those that dont Hell's Gate 37 is the first part of this trip.
THis is the link and I also put up 19 pictures of this hike.
I am the guy in the gray rain jacket.
http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=301
I hope that you can make it Matt.

mttgilbert · Post by **mttgilbert** » May 13 2003 8:35 am

Im glad that worked out for you (especially since you drove from peoria).

Unfortunately its now final, I won't be able to attend. That possible fourth day would conflict with the start of summer session for me. I will probably do a different backpack trip that weekend (and oneday I'll get back around to hellsgate).

jimserio · Post by **jimserio** » May 13 2003 9:33 am

That possible fourth day would conflict with the start of summer session for me.

Ouch! I completely forgot about that as I've signed-up for an 8-week session. pfredricks: maybe we can cut out a day early?

Coaster

Added later:

What Teva shoes are you all taking about? I have a pair of the Teva Protons (http://www.rei.com/online/store/Product ... &langId=-1) which I used on a 3-day Wet Clear Creek hike. They were good for a few hours in the water but I'm not too sure about extended periods.

hikeaz · Post by **hikeaz** » May 13 2003 2:35 pm

There is an parking area northeast of Gisela, near the creek where we'd park the hike-end vehicles.

I am canoeing the Boundary Waters from Thurs., 5/15 thru 5/22, and will be incomunicado.

If anyone is attending, please call me before the 15th @ 602-339-8780, as the 22nd (late) will likely be too late to make adjustments.

I spoke with Tyler again, and he doubted highly that we'd need the 4th day.

pfredricks · Post by **pfredricks** » May 17 2003 5:35 pm

For those going on this trip, you gotta see this, and you may reconsider your waterproofing/pack floating plans.

good times!

http://www.becksteadphoto.com/HellsGate.html

hoppy47m · Post by **hoppy47m** » May 18 2003 9:46 am

A suggestion for floating your gear. I have always used those cheap kids swimming pool plastic innertubes. they are only a couple of bucks apiece at Wal-Mart, and unlike an airmattress you don't have to spend 1/2 an hour blowing the things up, and they will hold your gear high out of the water. They weigh nothing and can be disposed of at the end of the hike. Of course they are a little lumpy to sleep on...... :idea:

pfredricks · Post by **pfredricks** » May 18 2003 10:49 am

hikeAZ was not specific.
check out the link below.
Is this the end of the trip? Is this where one of us will park?
Three of us have to be out in three days. We will need to know for sure where the vehicle drop is. ONe of us is going to have to leave our vehicle at this drop point.

http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=132

jimserio · Post by **jimserio** » May 18 2003 4:26 pm

I mentioned the rafts as well. Maybe I'll re-consider those.

Jim

mttgilbert · Post by **mttgilbert** » May 18 2003 5:04 pm

I am checking into "dry-bags" they are used for rafting to waterproof items. They have some pretty large sizes at REI, they range in price from about $15 to $70. I am going to work on floating my bag tomorrow in a pool. If I can't get it to work satisfactorily then I may be considering one of those bags (remember this week is REIs 65 anniversary sale that means 20% off for members).

Hell's Gate-memorial day weekend trip

Hell's Gate-memorial day weekend trip

got it

Hi there-

ya gotta see this

Is this where the trip ends (where we park?)