Caves?

[sprottm]

Looking for a good cave to hit up on the weekend. Heard cave of the bells and onyx cave were decent. Anybody have any suggestions?? Or even would like to come?? let me know plan on doing it this sat..

[Davis2001r6]

Come on, cave people don't let there secrets out. The only cave I've been too is the Lava River Tube north of Flagstaff, not exactly a secret though.

[te_wa]

I dont know if you want to go serious spelunking?
there is a shallow (100' deep) cave near Tony Ranch.
another larger one right next to Devil's Chasm.
on the side of Horseshoe mesa.
those are the only ones I know of but Im not a caver...
you'll have to ask Redroxx for more, she's the cave gal.

[Jeffshadows]

Onyx and Bells are both gated. To get the key you have to file a trip plan with the State Cave Resource Coordinator, and then get the key from the Escabrosa Grotto (Local caving club) "key holder." They charge a deposit to cover re-keying the gate if you don't return the key. Most of the better caves in the Tucson area have gates, or have been blocked to allow bats and wildlife in and out but prevent human passage. If you're feeling daring, attend an Escabrosa meeting, but keep your expectations in check...it will take a long time for them to warm up to you. One good way to get out right away is to go to a meeting or two of theirs and then volunteer for one of the clean-up trips. You'd probably get a chance to go to a decent cave with an experienced member and have some fun...

Caves and their locations are protected. This has been true since the late seventies and is also the reason why they no longer appear on topos or in GNIS. If anyone wishes to know why, an object lesson named "Peppersauce" sits just north of the Catalinas. Anyway, don't read all of this and think I'm trying to be a jerk or something; I just want to point you in the right direction without "crossing the line" so-to-speak... ;-)

Jeff

[Davis2001r6]

Yeah, Jeff said what I was thinking. If it's something your interested in, find the local caving club and go to some of there meetings. I'm not a caver myself, but have researched it enough to know how it works.

-TIM-

[joebartels]

Sir mix-a-lot preached the same approach to guns
"give a criminal a gun, and your public is losin"
so I take it cavers are anti NRA?

(I'm just kidding btw... he wasn't a preacher)

[Jeffshadows]

I know...I know, it all probably seems Draconian; but the reality is caves are extremely fragile ecosystems and the general public is the proverbial "bull in the china shop"...

Just so everyone knows where I actually stand - I think most of the spelunkers (As they prefer to be called ) at Escabrosa that have been die-hards for decades are over-the-top and derive satisfaction from controlling caves in southern AZ. I really isn't about conservation over there any more, trust me. Which is not to say that they don't have a point.

I dabbled in caving years back and am still a lifetime NSS member, though I really did lose interest. Maybe I'll get back to it someday...

[RedRoxx44]

There is a reason a lot of the cavers' adhere to the saying " Arizona has no caves to speak of". A lot of traffic trashes the cave. Get with a grotto group or a responsible, mature caver and get with the "cave softly" method. Not only to save the resource of the cave, but to prevent interesting injuries and less interesting SAR's.
In Tucson it's mainly Escabrosa, then SAG. Each has it's own style. Phoenix CAG is the one. These are grottos sanctioned by the NSS. And as was pointed out, it's own politics. I'm an Escabrosa member, although I haven't attended meetings recently, and can say they were instrumental in my take off into caving.
Also, it's considered bad form to mention cave names in a public forum. I know it's done, and the information out there, but still considered not a cool thing by more than a few Arizona cavers.

[Jeffshadows]

Sprottm: Please don't let any of what I have said deter you, if you're interested then definitely try to get active with the club. It's really going to be your best way to get underground...

[PrestonSands]

Caves and their locations are protected...they no longer appear on topos or in GNIS.

The same with ruins.
I had wondered why a cave I'd been to had disappeared from a new edition topo.

Thanks to all for the cave etiquette. I'm learning things...

Sir mix-a-lot preached the same approach to guns
"give a criminal a gun, and your public is losin"
so I take it cavers are anti NRA?

(I'm just kidding btw... he wasn't a preacher)

Now you're speaking my language, Hip Hop Soldier! ;-)

[Jeffshadows]

I was off a little, it wasn't the seventies; the federal Cave Resources Protection Act was passed in 1988, apparently.

[sprottm]

Wow...well i've done quite a bit of "caving" up north where i'm from in michigan as well as some here and there in missouri. I definitely wouldn't consider it "spelunking" but i am not inexperienced. I didn't realize mentioning cave names on a forum was a sin like it is apparently but you can always PM me there redroxx lol...The way some of you talk you make it seem like you must be a member of the caving cult to know nething. I have of course googled my choices of what i can and cant get into. I know all about the key situation from the fed building down town but i didn't know anything about the club that one of you were speaking of. Maybe thats not a bad idea for me to meet some people considering im quite new in the area. This weekend on the other hand i was just hoping to do a little exploring with a couple hiking friends of mine. Nothing too serious we of course have our helmets and lights and such but were just looking for something to explore i suppose you could say. Thanks for the input!

[Jeffshadows]

Yea, it really kind of has become that, for sure. Especially in the southwest. I remember going to Washington to visit friends years back and it seemed like every outdoor person up there knew where all of the awesome caves were. We must have hit up two or three in one overnighter. Anyway, it's a totally different political clime here in the SW when it comes to caving... ;-)

[jkern15674]

PM me and I'll tell you the locale of a couple that I know of (nontech) and certainly not "secrets"

[azbackpackr]

A truly non-technical one is located at Coronado National Monument near Sierra Vista--we took Scouts there one time. You tell the ranger you want to see the cave, they give you a permit to go in there. You are required to have a helmet and two or three light sources, as I recall. So there we were, looking pretty silly, walking around with bicycle helmets on! It's pretty mundane, I'm sure, as caves go. It was fun, though.

My kids used to go in Peppersauce, near Oracle, every year with their YMCA summer camp, which is just down the road from the cave. They said it smells like pee and beer when you first go in, but they still thought it was pretty neat once you got back in a ways. Anyway, it introduced them to the idea of being in a cave, in case they wanted to pursue that type of adventure. The only other cave I've been in is Brown's Cave in Harper's Ferry, WV.

[jandrews]

@azbackpackr
Hi,

We are trying to get more info re Peppersauce cave/camping to take our Boy Scout troop later this month. Do you have any more details or contacts?

Many thanks,

John

[Jeffshadows]

@azbackpackr
Hi,

We are trying to get more info re Peppersauce cave/camping to take our Boy Scout troop later this month. Do you have any more details or contacts?

Many thanks,

John

It's wide open and not far off the Control Road. You could probably camp comfortably at Peppersauce campground.

[azbackpackr]

I have never been there, just my kids went there. Apparently it is pretty icky in there and smells like beer and pee. Here is the HAZ writeup about it: http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=738

[Wild Bill]

Diamond point, East of Payson there is one, and there is another one on Hwy 87 just about 500 ft. before the Pine trail head on the east side of the road, about 1 mile south of Pine.

[imike]

...recall years ago crawling around in a nice little cave east side of Baldy (Garner Canyon?). Had to have a key to access the gate... found an interesting signature carved into the walls on an upper shelf: Walter Reed. Guess he was stationed out of Sierra Vista and did not have a great cave conservation perspective.