Camping Flatiron, South Rim Canyons, other overnighers?

[surfer349]

Hey guys,

So I'm back on the trail after a broken collarbone in July/August. I'm pissed because I missed all the hot weather and had some trips planned to canyons and water around Payson. Anyway, I'm trying to find some good fall hikes to do with the Fiancee. We have all the gear, are experienced, just don't know where to go.

I've got a few specific questions and then a general question:
1. Is there camping at the top of Flatiron (http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=45)? I'd love to hike up it and camp at the top, but I just don't know. Anyone do this before?
2. How about hiking around the South Rim Canyons, with all the water? I was going to do White Box/Hanging Gardens over the summer before the injury. Is it just too damn cold now unless we both wear wetsuits? Any cool stuff like this for fall/winter hiking?
3. Any recommendations for cool 1 or 2 night trips around the Phoenix area? I've heard about going on a a overnight around the Superstitions. I guess, I'm just looking for something different than just driving up to a campsite in a car. Maybe a cool hike in/camp/hike out.

What do you think, HAZ elders?

[toddak]

I was going to do White Box/Hanging Gardens over the summer before the injury. Is it just too damn cold now unless we both wear wetsuits?

The water in West Clear Creek is quite chilly by now, I personally wouldn't descend it without a wetsuit. Maybe I'm just a wimp, but I'd say you've probably missed the canyoneering season for most of the high country. You might consider the Marble Canyon area, those canyons are often nice this time of year (Cathedral Wash, Sevenmile Draw, Jackass Canyon, Badger Canyon, Rider Canyon, Soap Creek Canyon, North Canyon, South Canyon - note: some of these are technical).

[chumley]

1. Is there camping at the top of Flatiron (http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=45)? I'd love to hike up it and camp at the top, but I just don't know. Anyone do this before?

Camping is permitted. I've seen people camp up there. The views are nice, but you certainly won't find any solitude! There's no water so you have to carry everything you need. Though the views aren't as nice, there's a site next to a couple of Pinions about half a mile east on the ridgeline route.

2. How about hiking around the South Rim Canyons, with all the water? I was going to do White Box/Hanging Gardens over the summer before the injury. Is it just too damn cold now unless we both wear wetsuits? Any cool stuff like this for fall/winter hiking?

White Box is pretty cold and the mandatory swimming makes it less than ideal. But you can put together some backpacking loops in West Clear Creek where you can stay mostly dry (just crossings). Maxwell, Tramway, and Point Trails are options for that.

3. Any recommendations for cool 1 or 2 night trips around the Phoenix area? I've heard about going on a a overnight around the Superstitions. I guess, I'm just looking for something different than just driving up to a campsite in a car. Maybe a cool hike in/camp/hike out.

The Superstitions offer endless opportunities for one, two, or multiple night trips. Reavis Ranch is an easy favorite, but there are many other options from numerous trailheads.

Piece together anything from this map: http://hikearizona.com/map.php?X=469

Another close-to town option would be the Mazatzals. Barnhardt and Y-bar make nice access trails. Rock Creek is a little thick at the top. Mazzy Divide is a nice trail to make a loop with and Horse Camp Seep is a fantastic spot to camp.
http://hikearizona.com/map.php?X=442

[JasonCleghorn]

There are some really cool campsites on the trail from Peralta TH to Charlebois Spring, in particular about 3/4 of the way to Charlebois from Peralta TH with some established fire rings with overhanging sycamores, making your campsite look more like the Appalachians than Arizona...

[ALMAL]

1) Multi-day trip along the Highline trail will still get you up to Payson. Plenty of water along the way and the nights aren't too cold yet. String together; Horton creek, Tonto creek, East Verde river, Christopher creek, and a host of smaller creeks too.
2) Hells Hole, Salome Wilderness. Not too difficult but far enough away from PHX to keep most folks away. Nice backpack camping and much warmer than the rim country. Perennial creek.
3) If we get some rain, Marsh Valley Loop. There's your Supes trip... There are numerous secluded sites in Marsh Valley. Also a good trip Jan - March, usually water for sure then.
4) Pine Mountain Wilderness, Verde Rim Loop. West facing slope stays warmer longer, water, backcountry sites. Crappy road leading in though.

[surfer349]

Alrright, we finally have some rain this week and I finally have a free weekend. What do you think is best? I'm stuck. I've got Saturday night free, so thinking of driving out and hiking in Saturday afternoon, camping along the trail, hiking out Sunday morning.

Pine Mountain Verde Loop (http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=290)
Marsh Valley in the Supes (http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=644)
Barber Shop Canyon (http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=15762)
and I still have an itch for Flatiron, but Chumley said it wasn't the best choice.

I got to be honest, this will be the first time doing an off the cuff hiking trips like this, so I'm still unsure of stuff like where to camp and for water. Previously I've done car camping, where there's designated camp sites. Do I just plan on finding springs along the way to fill up my water packs?

Any and all tips welcome.
hopefully I can get a good trip planned for my (new) wife and I.

1) Multi-day trip along the Highline trail will still get you up to Payson. Plenty of water along the way and the nights aren't too cold yet. String together; Horton creek, Tonto creek, East Verde river, Christopher creek, and a host of smaller creeks too.
2) Hells Hole, Salome Wilderness. Not too difficult but far enough away from PHX to keep most folks away. Nice backpack camping and much warmer than the rim country. Perennial creek.
3) If we get some rain, Marsh Valley Loop. There's your Supes trip... There are numerous secluded sites in Marsh Valley. Also a good trip Jan - March, usually water for sure then.
4) Pine Mountain Wilderness, Verde Rim Loop. West facing slope stays warmer longer, water, backcountry sites. Crappy road leading in though.

[chumley]

Out of those three I would recommend Marsh Valley for this weekend.

Barbershop got as much as a foot of snow yesterday, and even if it melts by the weekend it will be in the low 20s at night.

Pine Mountain will only be a few degrees warmer and still will require some extra layers at night!

Temps in the Supes will be much more moderate/pleasant (75/50 ish).

There are some reliable springs in the Supes as well as some seasonal water sources but I haven't been out there recently so I'd hesitate telling you to rely on any of them. Perhaps somebody else can provide some guidance on potential camp spots and water sources on that loop...

[surfer349]

Out of those three I would recommend Marsh Valley for this weekend.
Temps in the Supes will be much more moderate/pleasant (75/50 ish).
There are some reliable springs in the Supes as well as some seasonal water sources but I haven't been out there recently so I'd hesitate telling you to rely on any of them. Perhaps somebody else can provide some guidance on potential camp spots and water sources on that loop...

Awesome! Looks like Marsh it is. http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=644
so I'm guessing by this time of year, its too cold and snowy to do much further north unless snow camping is what you're looking for? Last call for other trips?

So on this Marsh trail, the write up by AZ-outdoorsman looks pretty solid, except he did the whole thing in one 6 hour trip. Anyone have tips for where along that route to camp and put up a tent? Where can I find rules about building a small fire if its ok? Any cool spots that are tucked up against a rock wall or protected from wind?

Sorry for all the n00b questions, I've just never done a hike/camp/hike trip like this before.

[trekkin_gecko]

if you pull up the marsh valley triplogs, you can select mode = backpacking
there are ten that might shed some light on good camping spots

[FOTG]

@surfer349

Anyone have tips for where along that route to camp and put up a tent? Where can I find rules about building a small fire if its ok? Any cool spots that are tucked up against a rock wall or protected from wind?

I would recommend making the approx. 1.5 mile detour off your Marsh Valley Loop and up the Dutchman to the Charlebois Spring area. There will be water there for sure and there are some great sites along the way, just be sure to camp an ethical distance from the main spring area. No restrictions on fires, just be smart and safe. There are also opportunities for some light exploring near camp and old favorites like the Peralta Map in the area. I would not be 100 percent confident that there is water in the Marsh Valley area right now, even with the recent rains, pot-holes here and there I am sure, but maybe not near good camping sites. There is always water at Charlebois enough to even take a dip and nice options for camping. It will only add three miles to your weekend, but I think you will be happy you made the side trip.

[RowdyandMe]

@surfer349
I couldn't agree more with Friendofthundergod. If you do Charlebois Spring you will not be disappointed. You can build a fire and if your really tough you could cool of in the pool.

[surfer349]

if you pull up the marsh valley triplogs, you can select mode = backpacking
there are ten that might shed some light on good camping spots

Well feces, I didn't even know about that tab. Such great beta.

[surfer349]

@surfer349
I would recommend making the approx. 1.5 mile detour off your Marsh Valley Loop and up the Dutchman to the Charlebois Spring area. ... It will only add three miles to your weekend, but I think you will be happy you made the side trip.

Awesome beta. SO i printed out maps and a list of directions and all the trailheads, so I finally have a good mental picture of all these places. I really like this idea, as many of the triplogs recommend camping along the trail from Cavalry/Dutchman toward Charlebois.

I did see another person said they hiked up to the top of Blacktop Mesa and camped, along with a picture which looks real cool. http://hikearizona.com/photo.php?ZIP=489580

OK, so final question then is clockwise or counter clock wise? 6 of one, half-dozen of another? Starting @ first water TH, it looks to be about the same distance to Charlebois...

[nonot]

3rd the recommendation for Marsh with a stop by Charlesbois.

Counterclockwise is easier, in my opinion.

[ALMAL]

I agree with nonot, and and maybe on your return detour off 2nd water across garden valley down into and up FW creek back to the trailhead (Hackberry loop) for more excitement.

[Tough_Boots]

I went through Marsh Valley today. Its bone dry-- fyi. Boulder Canyon has some small pools but not very many. Charlebois of course has beautiful clear water and there's plenty of water in La Barge between the Cavalry/Dutchman junction and Charlesbois (a real sweet campsite below the trail, too, right by big clear pools).

[RowdyandMe]

@Tough_Boots You really can't go wrong with Charlesbois

[Tough_Boots]

You really can't go wrong with Charlesbois

except on a weekend when everyone else out there is thinking "you really can't go wrong with Charlesbois"

[RowdyandMe]

@Tough_Boots
I didnt think tourist went that far.

[surfer349]

OK, back. I'm guessing it was 18-20 miles total, including detour to camp @ Charlebois. Nearly no one else out there. One guy camping right next to the spring head, a solo backpacker nearby, and a family at the base near the wash/charlebois trail.

Man, definitely good beta on heading to Charlebois. The entire loop was DRY except for some stinky puddles near Aylors Arch/Black Mesa, and then down by 2nd water Spring head. I didn't see much else. We would have had a bad time if we didn't head to Charlebois spring. I thought we'd see more water, so about 5 miles in, I made the call to start rationing water, just in case we had to backtrack and not stay the night. Charlebois spring was a lifesaver. We camped on the SW side of the wash, maybe 50 yards down the trail. There's a big 'spot' with maybe a dozen different tent sites, a big firepit, collected firewood, rock seats, etc.

We went CCW. I can write up a triplog soon. Oh boy, I think this was the max of my daily limits. Including Charlebois, it was about 9-10 miles each day. I've got plenty of scratches and cactus injuries, and that climb up from 2nd water to moon valley sucked pretty hard. We also saw some interesting animal: a lemur looking animal, with a long prehensile tail, snout, maybe the size of a small dog. It was climbing trees on the way up to Charlebois.