Deer Creek/Thunder River loop

[rally_toad]

Hi all,

Seems a fair amount of you have done the loop portion of the hike. How is the route along the River from Thunder River to Deer Creek? Is the route easy to find? Is there a lot of exposure in these three miles?
Thanks

[arizona_water]

@Tsd906
Although the park service said that you can't drive in through Jacob Lake, there is still an un-gated gravel road from Jacob Lake that bypasses the NPS entrance gate. I think it's still a doable option. I know a friend who did that in April 2015...

[chumley]

^ What H2O said.

Forest Roads 461 and 462 connect to 22 from Jacob Lake. The barricade for the winter highway closure is just south of the junction with 461, so access is not restricted. While snow can make these roads impassible during winter, I believe that the North Kaibab district does not actually close gates on their roads up there. And I'd be very surprised if there's any snow on those roads now.

FS road map: https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/kaibab/m ... eprd490027
The phone numbers to the FS North Kaibab offices are on that page too if you want to call and verify that your planned route is passable in current conditions. They'd be the ones who know, rather than NPS.

[Tsd906]

@chumley
Awesome, Thank you all!

[johnsonfam77]

Can anyone tell me the location of any ruins in Surprise Valley or the Esplanade?

[chumley]

Can anyone tell me the location of any ruins in Surprise Valley or the Esplanade?

I didn’t see any when I went through. Try checking with an NPS ranger at the BCO when you get your permit.

[johnsonfam77]

@chumley Thanks, Chum. Will be down there May 4.

[ddgrunning]

@johnsonfam77
There is at least one overhang along the esplanade that was walled up as an enclosure, though I'm not sure whether it was of prehistoric or "modern" construction. I can't imagine anyone wanting to set up living in Surprise Valley--aka the GC's convex oven ....

[johnsonfam77]

@ddgrunning
Thanks dd. How 'bout lower down @ Upper Tapeats -seems like favorable living conditions?

[ddgrunning]

@johnsonfam77 I’m not aware of any in that area, but wasn’t looking for them when we hiked there, and I haven’t researched it.

[ultrazona]

Just an FYI we were down there to do the loop counter clockwise last weekend and had our food destroyed at Upper Tapeats Campground. The food was in a Outsack Spectrum tied to a dry bag of dishes. It was laying against a rock on the ground while we went and did a hike for 1.5 hours. The first person back to camp witnessed a ringtail (I thought they were only out at night, but he is certain thats what it was) working on it. The creature managed to tear a whole through the metal mesh in multiple locations. I spoke withe a backcountry ranger who was down there and he had never heard/seen anything like that. The final day we hung our food in our secondary sack (Ursack All White) from a tree with our packs and it appears the creature attempted entry but was unsuccessful. Even while hanging all the packs were opened and any bags (clothes bags, wet wipe bags, etc.) were torn open. Be prepared.

[big_load]

a ringtail

Grand Canyon ringtails can use most simple hand tools and some are licensed to operate heavy machinery. I've seen them unzip unattended packs in broad daylight and pull out the contents one item at a time until they got to the food. (The unzipping part is true).

[rally_toad]

@hikeaz
Would you say the hike from Upper Tapeats to Stone Creek and back is a good day hike option? Have two nights at Tapeats so won't be able to spend a whole day at Stone.

[hikeaz]

Sorry for the delay... back from the Royal Arch Loop and a week rafting the San Juan.

Sure... it would not allow as much 'splorin time @ Stone, but better than not visiting at all. It would also give you a taste of the area for a future trip. Or..
Have you considered calling the BCO and attempting to modify your permit?
Judging from the river traffic I saw recently getting a hitch from Stone should be pretty simple - some trips stop at Stone as a matter of course. Others, you may need to ask 'shore to raft'.

[johnsonfam77]

Anyone have a current update on F22 and other roads to Bill Hall Trailhead (more recent than 4/5/18). Going in next week to Thunder. Guy from Montana.

[ultrazona]

@johnsonfam77
We came in from Kanab two week back and the roads were in great condition. A huge portion of 22 is paved and makes for fast travel. Once on the dirt the road was still pretty smooth with the occasional pothole. We took a 2014 Forester, but with a lower clearance car it could be done if you take tour time.

[johnsonfam77]

portion of 22 is paved and makes for fast travel.

Is 22 west out of Kaibab Lodge the best way to access Bill Hall this time of year or does a guy get on 22 @ Jacob Lake? Thanks a lot for your help.

[ultrazona]

@johnsonfam77
Honestly I don't know for sure, but it was just the way we went because we spent the night in Kanab.

[chumley]

@johnsonfam77
Both work just fine. The choice should be made based on the direction that you are coming from.

[johnsonfam77]

I thought there might be another gate closed until May 15 located just a little south of JL on 67 that forced traffic east onto 22. We're coming from north (Kanab).

[johnsonfam77]

Forcing travel WEST, I should have said.