Help keep this newb from killing himself (Sycamore Creek overnight)

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

Am 68.

Wisdom is supposed to come w/ age. Not always true, as I will soon show.

Total newb to backpacking. (Didn't do Scouting as a kid.) While I have good equipment (eg., "The Cadillac of Backpacks"), that doesn't mean I know how to 'drive.'

There's a winter storm coming to the Matazal area early this week. (Beeline Highway.) I'm an engineer type, and am somewhat obsessed with testing mods I've made to my 'sleep system.' I want to see how it performs below freezing.

The forecast low on Wednesday night south of Payson is around 20 degrees (F). Last year I tested my system to 29 degrees at the Houston Mesa campground in Payson, and it was fine. But the FS closed HM this February, so I can't camp there this coming week.

The KOA campground in Payson is available. But it doesn't sound like fun.

So, I'm thinking about driving to the Sycamore Creek area of the AZT and doing an out & back hike on the AZT with an overnight to brave the cold. (And have some fun.)

(FWIW, I've been training here (N Phx) and hiked 5 miles today with 25 lbs without any issues. I don't know how I would do at 3500' altitude though.)

There are a lot of things that I don't know. For example, I don't know about the trailhead.

From what I've read on HAZ, I'm supposed to loop around from the north on Old Highway 87 to a trailhead. ("The" trailhead?) But according to my GPS map and a satellite image, I can drive to a differnt trailhead from the south portion of Old Highway 87 that connects to the AZT in a half mile.

From the satallite image, it looks like I drive onto business lots. And then the asphalt ends. Is that the trailhead? Or do I continue on the dirt road to the dirt oval? (My truck is a 4x4, and I checked engagment today.) Hard to tell from the satellite. But it looks like a fence blocks vehicle access to the oval.

The weather forecast there is for rain (and possibly snow) Tuesday. Does that mean that the dirt roads will be impassible? Or that I will get myself in, but not out? (I doubt that AAA will come to save me.)

Once on the AZT, I thought that I would pick a direction and hike for a while and then pitch my tent around 5 pm.

Is it safe to leave my truck there? Or will I come back to find my tires stolen?

Would it be better to return near my truck for the night? Is that allowed? (I read that we're not supposed to camp on private property, and I understand that. I can't tell from the satellite if it's private or public.)

Or, alternatively, I could loop around on the north side of Old Hightway 87 to a dead end oval where they broke up the Highway. (I wonder why?) Can I camp there?

I'm leaving the security of improved campgrounds for the uknown. Which is kind of dumb to do for the first time solo.

(The good news is that there shoudn't be any rattlesnakes out.)

Would you please share your wisdom with me so I don't do something too stupid.

(Or if someone wants to come along - I'm mild mannered (I don't swear.))

[nonot]

Take a look at this map and figure out the way to MacFarland Trailhead via FR626 to the old Beeline Highway road:
GPS :: Saddle Mountain - AZT #22

As to the rest of your questions, I am too confused about what you are asking about.

[ALMAL]

As to the rest of your questions, I am too confused about what you are asking about.

Agreed? You should probably stay closer to the city. Try a Supes loop like Marsh Valley loop. You'll get plenty a workout and it will be pretty cold there. Being a loop, a newb shouldn't get lost.

[ShatteredArm]

Is the goal to test out your cold weather sleep system? If so, I'd suggest you just car camp, so you have a bail out option if your setup turns out to be inadequate.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

@nonot
Thanks for the link. I've decided to try the Little Saddle Mountain Trail, which starts from the same trailhead that you showed me. (And that was my main question: "Where do I park?")

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

@ShatteredArm
Thanks. That's an alternative for me to keep in mind.

If, when I arrive in Sunflower, it looks too much for me, snow hasn't melted, or if I start the trail and the altitude proves too much, I'll turn around and simply set up my tent next to my truck.

(I'm not very worried about my 'sleep system' not being up to the task, since I was warm at 29 degrees, and I have improved it since then, and I now have two puffy's if needed.)

[garyc57]

If I'm not too late to the party...

About half way up the trail that nonot posted, the Farout app shows a yellow connector trail "Little Saddle Mountain Trail 244" I don't think it's the Mcfarland Trail. Anyway, over 10 years ago (has it been that long?!) my family and I hiked that connector trail up to the AZT. At the bottom, on the "Old" Beeline Hwy, there was a pull-out/turn-around spot, on the north side of the road. As I recall, It goes around some trees. Quite possibly, you could park your truck there, and either hike up the connector trail a ways, or pitch your tent beside your truck. It's quiet and remote enough you may not have to worry about vandalism. Your call.

Be safe, and let us know how it went.

Don't worry about the mistakes. I've made a TON! The folks here are generally quite patient with us newbs. Welcome to the club!

[nonot]

The Arizona Trail is a collection of trails/roads that individually have their own names. Technically, the Arizona Trail doesn't exist - individually the trails and roads exist, and when you hike them together, you call that the Arizona Trail.

[ Little Saddle Mountain Trail #244 ]

The little Saddle mountain trail is the same as the AZT, for the 4 miles heading north from this MacFarland Trailhead. (Except for the first few hundred yards)

[ Saddle Mountain Trail #91 ]

The Saddle Mountain trail picks up after those 4 miles near Mormon Grove Trailhead and IS the remaining about 3 miles of AZT until Sheep Creek is reached.

The short, less than quarter-mile segments that connect from the AZT to the trailheads are not considered a part of the Arizona Trail.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

@garyc57
Not too late. I appreciate all the advance information sent my way. (I found a two week old picture of the trail and a potential camp site from that.)

A former Scout leader (as old as I am) stopped by this afternoon to do a "shakedown" of my kit. He hasn't taken the scouts out for 9 years and was a bit overwhelmed by the new lightweight technology stuff. But he thought that I had the basics covered.

He thought that the biggest safety concern at our age is physical injury - falling and breaking a bone or twisting an ankle.

I've never broken a bone, so I don't know what that's like.

But I had twisted my ankle in my early 20's. So I know how debilitating that can be. My Plan if it happens on the trail is to 1) ditch my backpack and switch to the daypack with water and some high energy bars, 2) break down one of my trekking poles and Ace Bandage it to my leg with a chemical cold pack, 3) call for help if coverage allows (since the Beeline is somewhat near, might have coverage if I'm high enough?) and 4) hobble back toward Old Beeline Hwy.

I'm more concerned about animals. A pack of hyenias came through Christopher Creek last year at 3 in the morning. I've seen a pack of cyotes at Payson. Being raised in the suburbs all my life, animals noises at night are scary. (I just learned what a moose calling for a mate sounds like from a video, and I had heard that too at Payson.) It terrifies me hearing something moving outside my tent, in the pitch black, not knowing what it is.

Also, living in Phx now for more than 40 years, my hands no longer work when temps fall below 50. So that will also be a concern/problem. I recently saw a video of another Old Man (older than I am) who is hiking the AZT NoBo. He complained about how difficult it was for him to break camp in the morning due to his hands not working.

So I'm bringing a hand-warmer along.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

@nonot
If I have it correct, I am planning to hike [ Little Saddle Mountain Trail #244 ] . Thanks for the link.

[The_Eagle]

A pack of hyenias

a moose calling for a mate sounds like from a video, and I had heard that too at Payson

Neither call Arizona home. Maybe javelina and elk.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

@The_Eagle
Interesting. Well, as I said earlier, I grew up in the suburbs. So I don't recognize many animal sounds.

The night at Christopher Creek campground, it was the diminished "laughing" sound/high spirited yelping? (I suppose I could search on line for the sounds of hyenias, jackals, etc.)

Whatever they were, the Host/Ranger drove around the campground to make sure everyone was all right.

Edit: You're correct: Elk. (I inaccurately said 'moose.')

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

I found this video, with common Arizona animal sounds. But it doesn't have what I heard.

Possibly jackals?

This is more like what I heard, but in a pack. The video description says that there are some at a Park at Camp Verde. Maybe some escaped?

[Alston_Neal]

Being an AZ. native I've learned that there are few animals here that wish to have you for dinner. There are animals that will cost you an arm and/or a leg. But that has proven to be linked more to testosterone and alcohol. Wherever you decide to go have a great time.

[nonot]

Coyotes will yelp and howl at the moon, and often at dusk a pack of coyotes can sound like they are "laughing" similar to a pack of hyenas in Africa. Coyotes don't generally bother any people larger than about a 6 year old so you have little to worry about. If you bring a dog or a cat with you, make sure it is leashed or tied and cannot wander off.

Javelinas are typically not vocal in my experience, except for an occasional snorting/grunting sound, they make sound just moving around though. Some people claim they are dangerous, but not in my experience from having them in my campsite on more than one occasion - I yell and half-heartedly chase them, and they flat out ignore me unless I get within 10 feet, then they stumble away.

There are three types of animals that come to mind you may encounter, which are slightly dangerous
1) mountain lion. If you hear a high pitched woman shrieking at night, don't go to investigate it. Otherwise they will leave you along
2) black bear. If a bear comes into your camp, and doesn't run away when you yell at it, it may be a habituated (human fed) bear which could be dangerous. Carry bear spray if you are particularly worried. Otherwise black bears will run away from people.
3) Rattlesnakes. If it rattles, stay away from it. If you are close, move away slowly. If you see it and it doesn't rattle, stay away from it. Staying 20 feet away from a rattlesnake will prevent you from getting bitten. Almost everyone who gets bit is because they tried to pick up the rattlesnake, or touch/pet it.

Other animals that come to mind you may encounter for which "common sense" generally applies but can cause problems:
-squirrels (statistically, the animal that causes the most injuries to humans)
-skunks
-porcupines
-tarantulas
-pretty much any animal if you try to corner it or pick it up or feed it from your hands. Don't do that!

The most dangerous animal:
Other humans: there are lots of weird. deranged, and dangerous people in this world. But they are in the minority. If you get an odd feeling, stay away. Most people will respect you keeping your distance from others, and at worst might think you a loner.

[Sredfield]

@nonot
I'd add bees to that list.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

@nonot
Thanks for the information on the animals. Very comforting.

It will be too cold for rattlesnakes (unless I pitch my tent over whatever hole they hibernate in?). I don't know if bears will be foraging in the cold at night.

But I do have bear spray. How practical it will be to spray from a tent - with the wind blowing - I don't know.

(The only food that I will have that can be smelled are some high energy bars, wrapped in plastic from the manufacturer. I will hang those far from me just in case they're enough to create a Siren Song.)

Regarding humans: I remember the Harold Fish story from FLG. The reports I've read about this trail is that hardly anyone is on it.

I'm wondering how muddy it will be after this rain? Here in N. Phx I can hike a local Reserve after a rain storm and it is very passible, since the ground here soaks in the water quickly, and since the gound is mostly rocks. And sloped, so runoff toward the man made culverts.

From the photos of the trail, I'm expecting it to be fine. But I hear stories of ppl hiking the AZT north of FLG this time of year and complaining about how muddy it is after the snow melts.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

Well I'm back from my (solo) Little Saddle Mountain overnight backpacking hike. (Trail #244. )

Only 796 more miles to go. (Am joking. No intent to thru-hike the AZT.)

I didn't die, although I could have. I almost twisted an ankle. (Caught myself because I use two trekking poles.) And I slipped on some clear ice on the return trip down and slammed against a large (taller than me) bolder. Fortunately, neither my ankle or shoulder hurt or swelled up.

To my amazement, there was cell phone coverage for about half of the trail on my 3rd party provider.

Lots to tell if anyone is interested. (Photos of animal trails in the snow that this newbie/suburbanite doesn't recognize. (All I know are rabbit trails.))

But the most important piece of information for this group is that the Cross F Trailhead has moved.

All the data that I have seen, GPS maps & logs has it wrong. They all show the trailhead on the east side of the Old Beeline Highway. But that is no longer the case. The trailhead is further down the road a few hundred feet, on the west side. (It's that oval that I saw on satellite, that I mentioned in my initial post.)

You'll see a sign that says "Trail Access." Turn right (west). You'll see a large oval parking lot. There is a large AZT sign at the west end and that's where the feeder route to # 244 begins.

Even the USFS has the old information on its website.

P.S. If you hike the trail and find an Emergency Whistle, it's the one that I lost.

[LosDosSloFolks]

@TooOld2HikeQ
You might consider posting a triplog and photoset of your adventure here on HAZ. Use the drop down menu at the top of the page titled "+ ADD" to get started.

[big_load]

I almost twisted an ankle. (Caught myself because I use two trekking poles.)

That's one of the great things about poles. They've helped me avoid countless such mishaps.

I'm glad your trip worked out well. It's a good time of year to be out and about in AZ.