Peralta HQ cave in Peters Canyon via Tortilla Flat - July 7

[DarthStiller]

I read about this in the Hiker's Guide to the Superstition Wilderness and want to go find it. From Tortilla Flat this is listed as about 5 miles RT, so the heat shouldn't be too much of a limiting factor. It's along the creek bed and some moderate boulder hopping and bushwhacking, according to what I read and what Wally told me. The advantage to the heat might be that there shouldn't be much water, if any, in the creek so there won't be an issue of wet feet. Anyone feeling adventurous enough to brave the heat in the Supes?

[wallyfrack]

OK, I'm ready. I decided to test the heat and hiked the Pass Mt Trail starting at 11:30a today. No problem. I only used 3 quarts of water and the long sleeve white shirt shielded me from the sun. The salty sweat tends to burn the eyes and the heat drains your energy but as long as you bring extra water and keep the distance down it's good.

[djui5]

I'm considering it...

[nonot]

Do you mean Peter's Cave? Tortilla creek may have a little water in the potholes, but I doubt there will be anything flowing.

[djui5]

+1, there won't be any water in the creek on this hike. There is a spring further down Tortilla Creek, but that's pretty far past the Peters Canyon intersection. It's not even worth hiking to actually, not in this heat.

[joebartels]

I was highly considering this as I didn't want Stiller to go alone. With Wally in my concerns have eased. I might go depending if it's a good early start and I'm not committed to something else.

[SuperstitionGuy]

If it gets really hot on this trip your planning, hike just beyound the headquarters and cave and you will come to a large tank where you can swim and cool off. There is a waterfall into it when the stream is running but it is usually nothing but a dribble this time of year. The tank is very deep and I was not able to swim to the bottom of it the one time I tried.

Take and post pictures for those of us that can't join you on this trip and please be careful out there....

[DarthStiller]

Wow, sounds like alot of people are concerned about the heat and our safety. For the record, my first summer in Phx I used to hike both sides of Camelback Mt. as a day hike starting on the Cholla side in July and August, starting my hike at noon. If I could handle that, I think I should be able to do this. I'm kind of goofy like that. Plus, ask Wally, I always take way more water than what I expect to need. I do prefer to have at least one other person with me, and the more the merrier. If this was just a normal trail, the distance is no issue at all in the heat. the bushwhacking will be the variable of concern. I'm also thinking of getting an early start, but not my normal 4:30am wake up time for a 10+ miler out there.

I'm not expecting any water in the creek, which is one of the reasons I want to do this at this time of year.

I think this is also referred to as Peter's Cave, from the title given this thread.

That pool sounds really interesting. But I'm not much of a swimmer.

I'm thinking a bowl of chili at Tortilla Flat at the bar on those saddle stools washed down with a beer afterwards might hit the spot. A hike in the heat always make the beer taste better... maybe that's why I like the AZ summer hikes.

[nonot]

spoiler: http://hikearizona.com/phoZOOM.php?ZIP=38345

I wouldn't want to swim in it when I went, it was clear though in Feb.

[SuperstitionGuy]

Peters Cave and Peralta Headquarters are two seperate and distinct caves. Peralta Headquarters being the higher and its floor has mostly been dug out by pot hunters. Peters is closer to the water and every time I passed by there it was full of modern trash and fire rings.

My swimming in the pool below the waterfall was to cool my body down after hiking from Tortilla TH and then down Peters Canyon on a very hot June day. This was the first and only water I found that day until I reached Tortilla Flat and guzzled down a pitcher of ice water. Which I found was also a mistake! Hiking during the day in the Supers June thru September is not recommended but hiking at night and very early in the morning can be quite rewarding.

[rally_toad]

Are any of the trailheads in the Supes day use only? Just curious cuz next time I head out there I wanted to leave at about 3 am and begin hiking by 4.

[Hoffmaster]

Are any of the trailheads in the Supes day use only?

I don't know of any that are "day use only", but you must make sure you buy a Tonto Pass for the appropriate amount of days that you will be gone. Otherwise, you will be ticketed (I know from experience ).

Stiller, I think you are crazy. It's too hot. Besides, there is not water flowing down Peter's Canyon in the winter, let alone the summer. Good luck.

[djui5]

Wow, sounds like alot of people are concerned about the heat and our safety. For the record, my first summer in Phx I used to hike both sides of Camelback Mt. as a day hike starting on the Cholla side in July and August, starting my hike at noon.

It's a little different hiking in the Supes than Camelback. Camelback is exposed to wind and such. Back in the Supes, you're hiking in canyons that hold in heat like an oven, literally. You're down in a hole, versus on the top of a mountain like Camelback, so your exposed to more heat because the rocks hold in the heat. On Camelback you're in the open air. I hope that all makes sense.

It's really hot out and everyone on this site is concerned for everyone else's safety. Don't take it personal, we all like having each other around and want to keep it that way. It's a good thing

[SuperstitionGuy]

If you really think that "there is not water flowing down Peter's Canyon in the winter" think again! I have seen it flowing so fast and high that it was impossible to go up Peters canyon or Tortilla canyon from the point where they meet. If you get caught up one of those canyons during high water you may find yourself either stranded for a few days or having to climb over some very difficult terrain in order to get out. Flash floods leave their water mark in the trees if you want to know how high the water can get. Don't camp below this water line if rainstorms are threatening...

[joebartels]

of course that's pretty much the case for most desert canyons & creeks

sure is fun to witness those phenomenons as a non-victim

[wallyfrack]

I'm counting on us going in early while there's some shade on the trip in and before the rocks heat up. Stiller is pretty much a walking water tower so
hydration should be adequate. I know the short route over the hill and up Tortilla Creek so we'll make it quick. Even with all the precautions I know
I'll be drinking extra water the next 2 days to get back to normal. Fortunately, I can tolerate heat well. That's why I live here.

[Hoffmaster]

If you really think that "there is not water flowing down Peter's Canyon in the winter" think again! I have seen it flowing so fast and high that it was impossible to go up Peters canyon or Tortilla canyon from the point where they meet.

I didn't mean to imply that it never has water in it...obviously it does; that canyon got formed somehow! I've seen water flowing through Peter's Canyon as well. In fact, I had to change my hiking plans because it was too much water! You gotta admit though, water flowing through Peter's Canyon is a rare occurrence, even in the winter.

[DarthStiller]

I don't take it personally nor am I offended in any way about the concerns. I do appreciate it. I just wanted to give some personal info on the heat issue. I also jog every Sat., rain or shine, starting at about 3-4pm, so I'm pretty conditioned towards the heat. The breezes on Camelback are true, also for jogging on a canal. But the breezes arent always there, and the vertical climb the second time in that heat is very draining, breeze or no breeze. The bigger issue in the Supes is how remote it is (although by Tortilla Flat isnt too far off the beaten path) and how you can get disoriented in the canyons. I am glad to have at least one other person make the trip, as is my wife.

I remember seeing Tortilla creek flowing in Mar 2006 after that big snow/rain. It pretty much depends on the weather, which can be unpredictable at times. I got caught in the big snowstorm Jan 21 of this year when they were calling for a "30% chance of precip". Yeah, right. I've been almost stranded (ok, I got lost) out in the Supes with 114 degree heat in 2002 and the big problem was no water. then 4 years later I had the exact opposite problem with all the snow slowing us down that we ran out of daylight and hiked the last hour with flashlights. funny to have the exact opposite problems less than 10 miles away...

I never thought of it until now, but do we need the Tonto Pass to park at Tortilla Flat? I didnt think so, but has that changed? they never had a pay station there before.

[wallyfrack]

I usually park right off the road just past Tortilla Flat. There's a place to pull off and a trial going up over the hill
to Tortilla Creek. I don't think you need a pass for the trail head out there either.

[rally_toad]

I think Tonto Passes are only for Water Recreation at least thats what I was told by the people at Canyon Lake when I parked there to hike into La Barge. Although there are some trailheads that may have fees.