State Parks under attack (again)

[PaleoRob]

Looks like the temporary reprieve that the state parks got is going to vanish again. State legislators are planning on shutting all state parks and slashing pay for all state employees (does that include the legislators as well?) in order to save money. Never mind that the state treasurer said that the state could lay off every single state employee and still be in the hole, but oh well.
No much of a person to get on a political rant, but I feel that our legislature over the past decade or so has generally done us a terrible disservice, and their current behavior is right in line with that. Why not let the voters decide themselves if they want a sales tax increase? Uh oh, the uninformed masses might do something that goes ideologically against what you like. Guess what? The public should get the final word, not you. So irritated this morning.

[Jeffshadows]

I think this entire situation is a travesty and I utilize the Arizona State Park system frequently as an outdoor enthusiast. The most important question here is what can we do as a cohesive group do to postpone or completely eradicate the plans to close the parks? Does anyone have suggestions?

Re-elect no one! ;)

Shawn...better yet I think one of US should be elected!!!!

The issue will still be where to get the money from. Our genius legislators overextended our state's resources. We have three choices: Make those who actually do pay taxes pay more, make everyone pay a fair (flat) tax, or cut other programs. The latter would result in deeper cuts to healthcare and education. If we cut either of those any deeper a lot of hospitals in AZ will simply close their doors, crime will balloon, and we'll have even sicker people flooding the few emergency departments still in operation with absolutely no way to pay.

My solution? We need a flat-tax NOW. You make $500 a year? you pay $10. You make $500,000? Yes, I'm sorry, you have to pay $10,000. I think you'll survive. No more tax incentives or breaks for anything, ever. End of problem, permanently.

[chumley]

They're gonna return it!

State may return bequest forparks
by Mary Jo Pitzl
Jan. 22, 2010 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

The state Legislature drew scorn when it was learned that in its rush to sweep funds to balance the budget, lawmakers also took a bequest left by a Danish-born woman who wanted to preserve Arizona's parks.

The nearly $250,000 bequest from Asta Forrest was mistakenly taken by the Joint Legislative Budget Committee, state Sen. Al Melvin said. The budgetmeisters didn't realize it was a legacy contained in the woman's will.

"We feel confident we can get that money restored," said Melvin, vice-chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee.

It would be a nice gesture. Although with 21 of the Parks Department's 30 properties marked for closure, the money won't go far.

[SuperstitionGuy]

Tourists decry decision to close Lost Dutchman State Park
Jan. 21, 2010 04:03 PM The Arizona Republic

Winter visitors who spend weeks, if not months, at the iconic Lost Dutchman State Park don't understand why Arizona would sacrifice tourism revenue to cut the $3.2 billion state deficit anticipated in the coming fiscal year. Plans to close the park - the closest state park to Mesa -- on June 3 have left visitors wondering if it will reopen and whether they will have to go someplace else next winter, taking their money with them.

Gay and Martin Bruce of Sidney, British Columbia, Canada have been camping at Lost Dutchman since late November, spending $2,000 a month on camp fees, groceries and other supplies. The Bruces could stay in a recreational vehicle park for half the $450 a month they pay at Lost Dutchman, but that wouldn't afford them the spectacular mountain views, the chirping birdsong and the roaming packs of coyotes they enjoy.

Sitting in their campground at the base of the Superstition Mountains on a crisp and clear winter morning, the Bruces said they are sickened by the thought that a "gem" like Lost Dutchman would close. They want to keep spending their money in Arizona, but said they would have no choice but to go someplace else warm if the park stays closed next winter. "This is natural for us. We love this place. That it's closing down is a shock to us," said Martin Bruce, 67.

Jim and Cheri Kent of Delta, Colo., spend a month each January visiting several Arizona State Parks, including Lost Dutchman, where they were hiking earlier this week. Jim Kent, 62, said the couple will spend a maximum of $1,500 on their trip, money that might go to a different warm weather state if Arizona closes the parks for very long. "They are cutting off their noses to spite their face," he said.

William Johnson, 59, of Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada spent 2 ½ weeks staying in a friend's recreational vehicle at Lost Dutchman, where he trained by running on the lower trails and eventually ran in the P.F. Chang's Rock n' Roll Marathon. "The incoming tourist revenue is still here," Johnson said. "If anything, they should encourage it, instead of doing the opposite."

Faced with an $8.6 million cut to the state parks budget, the State Parks Board voted on Friday to close 21 of 30 state parks and recreation areas, including Lost Dutchman. All the closed facilities are money losers.

Rep. Barbara McGuire, D-Kearny, said she's working with State Parks and Gov. Jan Brewer's office on other possible funding options, including a modest vehicle registration surcharge or using Heritage Funds from lottery sales. She said Arizona needs tourism revenues, especially in bad economic times. "For Arizona to be a state without parks, I can't imagine that. To me, that's a great sin," she said. "You are closing out the public from public lands."

Lost Dutchman, the state's eighth most popular park and the closest to the East Valley, lost $9,545 in fiscal year 2008-2009. The biggest loser was Oracle State Park near Tucson, which lost $253,262. In contrast, popular Slide Rock State Park near Sedona turned a $254,249 profit.

But Stephen Filipowicz, Apache Junction's economic development director, said the Arizona State Parks Department estimates that Lost Dutchman generates $4 million a year in tourism revenues each year. If the park were to close for a year or more, the $4 million would be a huge loss for Apache Junction restaurants, gasoline stations and grocery stores, he said. "I'm hoping it's a one summer hiccup for us," Filipowicz said. "Don't let this be the end of the story. Let's talk about when we are going to reopen parks."

He said one silver lining is that the city of Apache Junction is building stronger alliances with State Parks officials. Even though the park is a quarter of a mile outside the city limits, Apache Junction patrol officers are turning around in Lost Dutchman's parking lot to provide a level of crime deterrence. "They're not patrolling throughout the camping area. They are sort of showing the flag," Filipowicz said. Apache Junction also is making equipment available to Lost Dutchman employees and businesses are donating hand tools and other supplies.

Although the looming Superstition Mountains are a major part of Apache Junction's identity, "maybe in the past we just took for granted they were here," he said. State Parks officials, Filipowicz and a spokeswoman for the Pinal County Sheriff's Office all said they are concerned about security at Lost Dutchman during the closure. "We've had problems with them when they are open so I imagine it will be exacerbated when it closes," said Jay Ream, assistant state parks director. "Closing them means no one is there to watch them."

He said ownership of Lost Dutchman also could revert back to the federal Bureau of Land Management if the park remains closed for at least a year, but he expects federal officials to give Arizona some latitude because of the budget crisis.

Assistant Manager Steve Jakubowski said the Superstitions have become a major tourist attraction in the past 20 years, with maybe eight times the number of people who pay to enter the park stopping by to ask questions. Many visitors also are loyal, returning year after year to have Thanksgiving dinner outdoors, for family reunions and for other events, he said, but those traditions may soon come to a halt.

"It's not a good thing at all, it's terrible," said Johnson, one of the winter visitors from Canada, about the closure. "These facilities, with the rates and services and the Arizona color, you can't get it anywhere else."

More on this topic - Lost Dutchman fiscal snapshot:

Lost Dutchman State Park revenue for fiscal year 2008-2009:
Revenue: $266,808
Operating costs: $276,353
Net revenue: -$9,545 ---------- and for this they want to close the park? - Stupid is as stupid does!!!!!
Visitors: $98,802
Revenue per visitor: $2.70
Attractions: Hiking up Siphon Draw to Flat Iron, campground, spring wildflowers, nearest state park to East Valley.

[nonot]

Remember folks, you all elected these nitwits...

[Jeffshadows]

Remember folks, you all elected these nitwits...

Luckily the two people I have any control over from my district agree with my views and are in the minority at the state. My hands are clean!! ;)

[Jeffshadows]

I have to admit that LD is the most shocking decision of them all...

[big_load]

He said ownership of Lost Dutchman also could revert back to the federal Bureau of Land Management if the park remains closed for at least a year,

I wonder if this is the real reason. Does the BLM have some non-recreational application in mind?

[joebartels]

$700+ a day to run LD(although by government standards is amazingly low) is ridicules. They're not closing all the parks so I doubt they're saving basic overhead like HR and whatnot.

[rally_toad]

Why wouldn't they add LD to Forest Service land instead of BLM? I think the state should be looking into other options and talking to land managers in the area for instance it would make sense to have a FS ranger or volunteer staff the VC at Lost Dutch, and Im sure the Hopi Tribe wants to keep Homolovi up and running and patrolled and would do what they can to help, same idea with Payson and AJ, they would both do what they could to keep the parks open. I think they really haven't considered all the options here.

If anything close all the stupid lake parks, I have only used Alamo lake for its campground when herping in the area, and could have easily camped elsewhere on BLM land. I'm so annoyed that many of the parks that will stay open have no natural or historical significance, they are just man made lakes!!!

[big_load]

They're not closing all the parks so I doubt they're saving basic overhead like HR and whatnot.

It's probably worse than that. When NJ parks were going to be closed, they closure was to be enforced by state troopers on overtime. Not only would there be a net increase in staffing, but the per-hour cost of that staffing was much higher than regular parks employees. (I've probably said that twice on this thread already :bdh: ).That's why I believe so strongly that this isn't about saving money on those particular closings. It's about creating leverage to do something else.

[Sredfield]

. . . this isn't about saving money on those particular closings. It's about creating leverage to do something else.

I have to agree with that, closing parks or cutting critical services is a front for something else, maybe creating an enraged consitituency or alerting the masses or ????

But then, given that the track record of our elected officials, it may be unwise to apply conventional wisdom to their actions.

[joebartels]

I'm not sure if it's leverage or the top dogs simply don't have a clue.

On Thursday evening when Governor Brewer went on the air declaring Arizona in a state of emergency she wasn't prepared with facts. If I didn't know better I'd think Ferris Bueller set the whole thing up. The newscaster asked her which area she felt was hit hardest and in the most need of help. After a pause the newscaster offered some suggestions... Oak Creek, the Verde...

[azbackpackr]

Sheesh, that is frickin' scary!











(Is frickin' allowed on here Joe? Because if not, you should allow it this time!)

[PaleoRob]

I like that idea Trish!

[Jeffshadows]

I'm starting to smell a "Real estate developer" rat, here...

[PaleoRob]

I'm starting to smell a "Real estate developer" rat, here...

Could be!

[Jeffshadows]

I'm starting to smell a "Real estate developer" rat, here...

Could be!

Why else close Dutchman?!! ...Or am I paranoid?

[SnakeWrangler]

You seriously believe that Vaporman?? Mexicans??!! Lets look at all the other states that are having problems, and many of them do not border mexico. However, all of them contain people who own cats.
I say if we get rid of the cats, we get rid of the budget crisis!!

Chumley was pointing out how CA & AZ have different ideological backgrounds but are in the same economic situation and I was just pointing out an obvious problem we both share. There's other common denominators at work as well like bad legislation and fraud. Any time a gov't has some program to give away free money, there's always going to be someone who finds a way to illegally recieve it. So no, Mexicans aren't the only problem but they definitely are not part of the solution... And no I'm not saying that because I'm racist, my boss is of Mexican descent but is very much American while some of our customers are fresh from the border Mexicans. They're not bad people, but getting paid under the table w/o taxes, sending much of it down south, getting free medical from the hospitals, free education for their kids that don't speak any English & bogging down the poor teachers, doing hit & runs on Americans because if they stop they'll get deported, and a certain percentage bring a nasty criminal element with them esp the Coyotes and the Mexican drug cartels. I'm just down on the front lines making my own observations and reading the local news. Something you're probably not seeing from that liberal college campus, but you still have plenty of time for learning esp when you get a job in the real world.

I love how you ignore everything else that has been said on this topic by others and attack my comment from almost a month ago..... :roll:

Well, I have to say I totally agree with this post. I've lived in Arizona my whole life and camped, hiked, hunted, etc..... near the border. I don't necessarily think it's the jobs that are taking a toll on Arizona but the tax dollars they use to clean up their trash, tracking, the drug runners, "coyotes". I think he hit the nail on the head with this post. I have very many friends who are of Hispanic descent and from Mexico but they are here LEGALLY! That's all I'm asking of them. Just my two cents...

[rally_toad]

I'm starting to smell a "Real estate developer" rat, here...

Perhaps its a Mexican Real estate developer who owns a cat??

[Jeffshadows]

You seriously believe that Vaporman?? Mexicans??!! Lets look at all the other states that are having problems, and many of them do not border mexico. However, all of them contain people who own cats.
I say if we get rid of the cats, we get rid of the budget crisis!!

Chumley was pointing out how CA & AZ have different ideological backgrounds but are in the same economic situation and I was just pointing out an obvious problem we both share. There's other common denominators at work as well like bad legislation and fraud. Any time a gov't has some program to give away free money, there's always going to be someone who finds a way to illegally recieve it. So no, Mexicans aren't the only problem but they definitely are not part of the solution... And no I'm not saying that because I'm racist, my boss is of Mexican descent but is very much American while some of our customers are fresh from the border Mexicans. They're not bad people, but getting paid under the table w/o taxes, sending much of it down south, getting free medical from the hospitals, free education for their kids that don't speak any English & bogging down the poor teachers, doing hit & runs on Americans because if they stop they'll get deported, and a certain percentage bring a nasty criminal element with them esp the Coyotes and the Mexican drug cartels. I'm just down on the front lines making my own observations and reading the local news. Something you're probably not seeing from that liberal college campus, but you still have plenty of time for learning esp when you get a job in the real world.

I love how you ignore everything else that has been said on this topic by others and attack my comment from almost a month ago..... :roll:

Well, I have to say I totally agree with this post. I've lived in Arizona my whole life and camped, hiked, hunted, etc..... near the border. I don't necessarily think it's the jobs that are taking a toll on Arizona but the tax dollars they use to clean up their trash, tracking, the drug runners, "coyotes". I think he hit the nail on the head with this post. I have very many friends who are of Hispanic descent and from Mexico but they are here LEGALLY! That's all I'm asking of them. Just my two cents...

I'm confused. I hike down there with frequency and have yet to see any concerted effort to clean up after the garbage and devastation that they have left all along the border in our wild places. What's more, the border enforcement efforts themselves go a long way toward destroying even more habitat and pristine land. In fact, the government response is to close natural places that belong to all of us and keep us away because they can't control the problem.

The most confusing part is that fact that AZ tax dollars ARE NOT paying to track illegals, clean up after them, or detain them. US federal tax dollars are. How does this translate into an economic impact on AZ over other states in the union?

In reality, the true costs of this whole crisis hit health care hardest. Tucson and other southern AZ hospitals lose tens of millions a year on treating illegal immigrants. The state used to help with those costs (Not directly) and the feds ignore them as the cost of free enterprise. Trouble is, federal law requires a hospital to evaluate and possibly treat anyone who presents in the emergency department. The state used to help cover the costs of the disproportionate number of poor for certain hospitals, but that has been cut by our genius legislature. You're going to see hospitals in this state start to go out of business or scale their operations way back in the next few years. Those are services that you and I can no longer have at our disposal; and more people unemployed.