State Parks under attack (again)

[PaleoRob]

Looks like the temporary reprieve that the state parks got is going to vanish again. State legislators are planning on shutting all state parks and slashing pay for all state employees (does that include the legislators as well?) in order to save money. Never mind that the state treasurer said that the state could lay off every single state employee and still be in the hole, but oh well.
No much of a person to get on a political rant, but I feel that our legislature over the past decade or so has generally done us a terrible disservice, and their current behavior is right in line with that. Why not let the voters decide themselves if they want a sales tax increase? Uh oh, the uninformed masses might do something that goes ideologically against what you like. Guess what? The public should get the final word, not you. So irritated this morning.

[dysfunction]

The only other Co $$ I know of is the $$ that funds the additional space in the Pima Co Morgue for ID.

BTW, we have what.. 1 trauma center in Southern AZ? How many can we lose?

[Jeffshadows]

The only other Co $$ I know of is the $$ that funds the additional space in the Pima Co Morgue for ID.

BTW, we have what.. 1 trauma center in Southern AZ? How many can we lose?

Your correct on both points. We actually pay a great deal to process and maintain those remains. Last I heard they had a few hundred sets sitting there...

[hikeaz]

As long as the Az. state legislature has the means to strip the state parks of funds there is no point in shoring up their balance sheet. The solution is to change the legislation that allows the shell game.

Still not a solution here in Arizona (see above) but at least in New Hampshire they have ideas (they may not have the same 'rob-Peter-to-pay-Paul' laws)....


New Hampshire Union Leader Staff

CONCORD – A proposed license place could act like an E-ZPass for state parks, letting motorists zip past the admission gate.
Legislators are considering offering motorists the plate in four different designs. It would cost them an extra $85.
The plate would allow day use at parks such as Monadnock and the beaches at Wellington or Ellacoya. It would not, however, displace the meters at Hampton Beach or the ticket window at Cannon.
Plates depicting hiking, skiing, the seashore and lakes are all part of House Bill 1620.
Rep. Andy R. Peterson, R-Peterborough, sponsor, worked with Resources and Economic Development Commissioner George Bald and fellow legislators to develop the idea.
They believe it would help struggling parks, raising revenue while encouraging more day use by state residents and keeping gate fees down.
Peterson estimates sales of the plates could bring in $1 million a year, and help pay for repairs and other projects at state parks.
For 19 years, parks have been self-funded. Operating costs come only from gate proceeds.
A study committee appointed by the Legislature is looking at ways to help parks.
Dick Ober, chairman of the State Park System Advisory Council, welcomed the license plate idea without endorsing it.
"I am glad people are thinking creatively about parks and how to pay for them," Ober said.
Ohio, North Carolina, Washington and Tennessee offer state parks license plates for an added fee, usually about $40. Maine's loon license plate has been helping pay for parks since 1993.

[Jeffshadows]

I like it!

[big_load]

Interesting. I finally caved in and signed up for EZ-Pass last week. The annual fee is probably twice what I pay in tolls, but the speed differential between EZ-Pass and cash payers at toll booths frightens me enough now that I consider it an investment in safety.

[rally_toad]

I'm confused. I hike down there with frequency and have yet to see any concerted effort to clean up after the garbage and devastation that they have left all along the border in our wild places. What's more, the border enforcement efforts themselves go a long way toward destroying even more habitat and pristine land. In fact, the government response is to close natural places that belong to all of us and keep us away because they can't control the problem.

The most confusing part is that fact that AZ tax dollars ARE NOT paying to track illegals, clean up after them, or detain them. US federal tax dollars are. How does this translate into an economic impact on AZ over other states in the union?

In reality, the true costs of this whole crisis hit health care hardest. Tucson and other southern AZ hospitals lose tens of millions a year on treating illegal immigrants. The state used to help with those costs (Not directly) and the feds ignore them as the cost of free enterprise. Trouble is, federal law requires a hospital to evaluate and possibly treat anyone who presents in the emergency department. The state used to help cover the costs of the disproportionate number of poor for certain hospitals, but that has been cut by our genius legislature. You're going to see hospitals in this state start to go out of business or scale their operations way back in the next few years. Those are services that you and I can no longer have at our disposal; and more people unemployed.

There you go again bringing facts into the discussion and ruining it for everyone!! ;)

Ok guys, I get that you don't like illegal immigrants. Can you find anyone here that does?? I doubt it, we are all pissed as hell that we have to put up with drugs on our public lands, and have to be worried about our safety when hiking near the border. But how can logically place the blame for our deficit and the state parks closing solely in the hands of mexicans?? I will point out that vaporman originally said nothing about illegal vs. legal immigrants, but just merely mentioned mexicans.

If there is anyone to blame its the legislature, and ourselves. I mean lets get real, we can sit here and talk about it for hours, but how many of you have actually called your state reps mad as heck and demanded answers? I'm frankly sick of the blame game. Blaming mexicans, conservatives, liberals, college campuses, people with cats etc. We voted Jan Brewer into a power position (although not for governor), and we voted our state legislature into power, so we all have the blame, even more so since we're not calling our leglislature demanding answers.
To me the state parks isn't even the worst of it. Brewer wants to cut all funding to adult education, that means no GED tests or degrees. All those "welfare bums" some of you complain about, (the ones who constitute less than 2% of the budget) won't be able to better themselves and prepare for a real career. But its cool, they're all lazy anyway right?
Don't even get me started on university and higher education funding... but thats disposable to our state legislature too. Combine this with the fact that they wont even let us vote on a tax increase in order to save jobs, and keep the parks open, or keep funding our universities. So who gets to foot the bill?? Well all of us do, we don't get to use our state parks, we can't pull off the side of a highway and stretch our legs at a rest area, we can't even let someone take the test to receive their GED and get a start on some sort of career path, we(and by we I mean students like me) will pay higher tuition for an education whose quality has not increased or even remained the same.

Meanwhile this November the people of Arizona are going to send all these old, rigid, radical, ideologically bound legislators back to the state capitol, because thats how it works in Arizona. Hey! At least we dont have to deal with a half percent sales tax increase right!!??

[joebartels]

What where the answers you got when you called?

[PaleoRob]

Last time I sent an e-mail to Jane Goodale, I got back a snarky response saying that if I have a better idea let her know, but otherwise to stuff it. She gets enough letters telling her what she's doing wrong, and since she (and her colleagues) are in charge of fixing it, they'll fix it the way they see best, without our help, thank you very much.
Not getting a vote from me next election.

[rally_toad]

What where the answers you got when you called?

Are you kidding? I never get answers when I call the state legislature. They never even have the courtesy to take a message and not debate with you like the U.S. Senators and Reps.

What I always get is a spirited debate from our Arizona lawmakers (or in most cases, the people answering the phone). Phone answerer: "Bla, bla, bla, the representative has never supported a tuition increase." Me: "Well, did he support the budget cuts to higher education??" Phone answerer: "Yes" Me: "Well then seems to me like the representative did support a tuition increase." Then more debate for another 10 minutes before I finally say "So are you going to give the representative my message or not? You aren't going to change my mind."

[dysfunction]

Face it, without special interest money.. our voice is extremely limited. Could always start a PAC...

[joebartels]

In response to rally_toad:
They probably listen better when you are presenting them a check

I'm liking my idea more and more!

Instead of voting for people to convey our thoughts the US needs to move government to the people. Cut out the middle man and give everybody the opportunity to vote the whole shebang online.

[rally_toad]

In response to joe bartels:

Exactly!! "The only solution for the ills of democracy is more democracy!"
The thing is, I'm not sure I have that much more faith in the intelligence of the majority Arizonans than I have in the intelligence of our legislature.

[chumley]

Just as a point of fact, America's government is NOT a democracy. It is a Representative Republic. The founders seemed to think that it was a better way to do things, and for about 200 years, it seems to have worked pretty damn well. It's lost some of its luster of late however as corruption has taken over. Not sure that there's a better alternative though. Well, except for a dictatorship, but that would only work if I was in charge

[joebartels]

Yeah it's been quite an infrastructure created in such a short blip of the history of the earth. Glad we don't have a president doing anything foolish like creating a false incentive to create more babies in this over populated world plz:

[JimmyLyding]

<<The most confusing part is that fact that AZ tax dollars ARE NOT paying to track illegals, clean up after them, or detain them.>>
Actually, the state of Arizona has paid well over $100 million to detain illegal aliens. When she was Governor Janet Napolitano sent a bill (somewhat symbolically) to the federal government in an attempt to recoup those funds. I'm pretty sure the feds threw the bill into the old circular file.

[tibber]

Working with legislators can be a little tricky. Sometimes it's a matter of who you know, not what you know. However, if you can take the "what you know" to "who you know" and the "who you know" has a contact with a legislator and can gain an audience, at least the "what you know" can be conveyed with some meaning.

Back in the late 70s I worked as an intern during two terms of the MT legislature both in the house and senate and I interned in Wash DC for our US congressman. From that I could watch all the action up close and see what worked politically. I decided I wanted to become more involved so I became very active in my local party politics. You don't have to tow the party line completely to be active. I was with a group of young guns that were trying to help the old guns of the party make a bigger difference so that really helped. As I moved up the ladder I was able to take my "what I knew" to "who I knew" and at least have an audience and make my point. I could do that on my own or with a group or as a representative of a group.

My point is, persuading the legislature is not as difficult or impossible :bdh: as it seems. I always believe there is a happy medium but sometimes you have to show them how to get there. Even though I was involved in politics over 20 years ago, I don't think the process has changed that much. I think a lot of your discussions are quite valid and have some excellent points, it's just a matter of getting them to "who you know". If you don't know a "who you know", there is a Plan B.

[Jeffshadows]

<<The most confusing part is that fact that AZ tax dollars ARE NOT paying to track illegals, clean up after them, or detain them.>>
Actually, the state of Arizona has paid well over $100 million to detain illegal aliens. When she was Governor Janet Napolitano sent a bill (somewhat symbolically) to the federal government in an attempt to recoup those funds. I'm pretty sure the feds threw the bill into the old circular file.

Perhaps, but not merely because they were illegal aliens.

For the record: I don't like or dislike border crossers; in fact, I'd rather see the border disappear. It's existence costs us a fortune every year and does relatively little in return. I like Mexico and my Mexican, Tohono O'odham, Apache, etc; neighbors. If I were in their shoes, I'd cross over here, too. I can completely understand and empathize with the conviction it takes to do whatever is needed to take care of one's family and obligations. I wish they would quit having so many kids, but not because I want less Hispanics; rather, because it locks them into a cycle of poverty they will never have an opportunity to escape. I don't blame them in the slightest.

I will say the same thing here I say to people I encounter in town who Mexico-hate: "Where do you think you are?" This is not Kansas, we are 90 miles from the international border. Don't like that fact? LEAVE! ...OK, I feel better, now.

And Joe is right - the are too many people on the planet.

[dysfunction]

In response to tibber:
To be honest, given the political climate currently.. as well noted by the Supreme Courts recent ruling vis-a-vis businesses and political advertisements, it's pretty obviously different from the climate of the late 70's. At least from what I remember of the late 70's. I'd say closer now to the early 1900's, before TR's trustbusting.

[RickVincent]

City of Mesa wants to spend 84 million on a new spring training facility for the Cubs. State parks can't come up with $9000 shortfall on Lost Dutchman Park, so they are going to close it. Typical government action. Spend 84 million on a few overpaid crybaby athletes who don't live here. Close a park used by thousands of people who DO live here. If the City of Mesa wants me to vote yes on more bonds, then maybe they should pick up the tab on Lost Dutchman. The extra 9 grand amounts to about .01% of the "projected" cost of the new facility, which we all know will end up costing much more than planned.

[azbackpackr]

I hate professional sports. Calling them "sports" is a real stretch. More like big business combined with brainwashing advertising. And the players are all mentally retarded misogynistic millionaires, who complain constantly. Yuck.

If I were the least bit interested in sitting for hours on my butt watching sports, I'd attend college and high school games, especially of girls, and give them my support and ticket money, and buy their fundraising items, etc.