Superstitions "Never wore a pack"

[kingmantraveler]

Got some neices and nephews coming out on Spring Break from Omaha. They want to go into the Superstitions. They're city folk, never wore a pack.
I was thinking about going up Peralta Trail, cutting East on the cutoff trail, then coming back down the Needle and Dutchmans Trail in two days.
I've taken the AzT through these mountains, and went in via First Water a million years ago, but have never been on the Trails I mentioned above.
I was thinking of camping after the first day in the area of the cutoff trail, then coming back the next day.
I'd like your thoughts on this. I don't know what kind of physical shape they're in, and it looks like about a 1300 foot difference in elevation, between the Peralta TH and the cutoff. Might this be too much for youngsters? If it is, we could camp at or near Pinon Camp, then return the way we came in.
I know what I can do. Just don't know about them.
Any thoughts / advice would be helpful. Thanks.

[kingmantraveler]

djui5,
I'd like to, but they're out of a few books I've read about the Superstitions, and I'm sure y'all have read the same ones.
The fun is in the telling, around a campfire at night, maybe a quarter mile NNE of Weaver's Needle, when the coyotes are harmonizing and there's a new moon.
Instead, it looks like the kids, (the Spring Breakers) are going to get an earful about how Gen'l Crook almost bought the farm, down at Camp Date Creek, and how the cavalry and Yavapais had a running gun battle near the Santa Maria river. Too bad. Always liked the Superstition stuff better.
Mike

[djui5]

Ahh yes then I've probably read the stories
Well have fun! Maybe next year you can take them into the Supers. Sure is a while place when you know the history.

[kingmantraveler]

djui5
The stories I got about the brothers is what came out of books I'm sure you've already read. Fascinating tales. And perfect for telling, around a campfire a little way North of Weaver's Needle, on a night when the coyotes are harmonizing, and there's a new moon.
Not this time around, though, unfortunately.
Interesting too, that Julia Thomas is described as White in some references, and Mulatto in others. Those mountains bring out the imagination in people.
Mike

[kingmantraveler]

damn! Didn't see my original post when I re-posted. Either I'm getting old or impatient.

[kingmantraveler]

Well, it looks like the Keystone Kops are running this show.
The youngsters want to come to see the Superstitions, so that's what we're going to do. Now I gotta re-print all those maps I dumped today, and set my brain back to the East Valley.
Actually, I'm happy. Beats the h**l out of Quartzsite and Burro Creek for sheer beauty.
I'll likely be coming back here for more advice and counseling. thanks again for all you people have already contributed.
Mike

[te_wa]

Im staying at Boulder Canyon and I feel I have a strong hand (or bluffing fantastically)
I doubt that water in Boulder will be an issue at the end of March unless we get mucho rain again, dont count on it.
Just the thought of that short trudge to the top of the hill to have an eye opening encounter with such a panorama filled with new wildflowers, no less, reminds me of D. Barrymore's expression when she looks out the boat window at the beauty of Alaska. Yeah, it'll be like that.

[azbackpackr]

I used to live next to Tucson, where some of the trails are packed on winter weekends. I always went by what I call "the three mile rule." Hike in three miles, lose most of that crowd. Hike in five miles and you'll probably have the place almost to yourself. The trick is to reach the trailhead very early in the a.m. when there is still parking left. You won't see many people hiking in if you start at 5:30 or 6:00 a.m., and once you pass the three miles, you will see mostly backpackers (in the Supes, that is, not in Tucson, where backpacking isn't very popular--go figger).

My son lives in the Valley now, and he says it is more like the "one mile rule" for Peralta. I have hiked out of that trailhead, and I kept telling him to go hike there. He drove up to the trailhead a couple of times and said it was too crowded, he didn't want to hike there. I reminded him of the "three mile rule." He said "Okay, I'll give it a try." He said that after only one mile he saw only a few hikers.

There is one thing I did NOT like about backpacking in the Supes. It was February. We camped at Charlebois ("Charlie Boy") Spring. We set up the tent, but slept under the "stars." What stars? Dusk lasted and lasted and lasted. I finally realized it was NEVER going to really get dark out! It wasn't the setting sun I was seeing, but the light dome from Phoenix! YUCK!!! The sky stayed really bright all night.

I like the Supes very much--don't get me wrong--but that light dome really took the wilderness feeling out of the trip. At my house in the White Mountains I can see the Milky Way in my front yard. I'm very spoiled indeed.

[nonot]

You can see plenty of stars from Charlesbois, provided there are no SAR choppers looking for lost hikers shining a spotlight on you at night.

Maybe you can't make out some super distant ones that you need to live 1000 miles from nowhere to see anyway and have pristine conditions and super optics on your telescope.

[SuperstitionGuy]

Camp in a narrow canyon if you don't want to see the lights from Phoenix. Then you will have at least a dark but narrow view of the skys and can even see the satellites passing over. A backpacking buddy asked me once how you can tell the difference between the American and Russian satellites? The answer is - that the Russian satellites are the ones full of parts from Radio Shack....

[kingmantraveler]

Love it!! Wonder if they keep their receipts.

I'm trying to get hold of a NF rep who can tell me if there's tent camping available on the 1st Water side. I'd rather have a base camp for the mothers and aunts of the kids to be a little cleaner, fewer empty beer cans, crushed glass, shotgun shells, etc. than the Peralta side.

I'd like to start at 1st Water, and go straight through to the Peralta TH, but I seriously doubt it'd work - 1st timers, ill-fitting packs, not used to sleeping out. . .

[nonot]

I think the first good camping spots you'll find will be near Aylor's camp in the open basin the Dutchman goes through as you approach the Black Mesa Trail.

There's always flat spots in Garden Valley if you take second water there, but that isn't on your itenerary..

There's a few campsites you can find near the intersection with Peralta and more near the Pinyon camp along Peralta.

If it's not too busy the backup horse lot near First Water could probably be used for camping, and I usually see people car camping in and near the lost goldmine trail parking lot near Peralta.

If you don't want to see beer cans and shotgun casings, you'll have to pick them up yourself and bring a garbage bag, unfortunately.

[SuperstitionGuy]

Camp your relatives a few hundred yards north east of the north east corner of the 1st Water Trailhead horse trailor parking lot. There they will have easy access to their vehicles and the restroom at the parking lot. Backpack to Hackberry Spring by using the old abandoned and fenced off road that goes over the hill to the east and to an abandoned ranch site. You will find this road approximately halfway to the last parking lot. It will have a sign at the entrance that says emergency vehicles only. If you have foul weather, camp under the corral ramada as it will give you some protection from the rain.

If the weather does not threaten rain continue on downstream until you reach the hardened campsite across the stream from the spring itself. Don't camp there. Continue on downstream about a quarter of a mile to where the trail turns right and up and east. Do not turn right. Go left (west) across the stream to the grove of large trees and camp there. This spot is almost never camped on and the grass may be quite long and high. Just tramp it down. The advantage with this campsite is nobody will be walking thru it, it is somewhat private, there is large trees for the kids to climb and you will find ample firewood there.

Day hike the trail to the east and hike up to the abandoned mine tunnel. Take along flashlights and check the tunnel out. It has bats but they will not hurt you. One time however we did find a skunk inside. He was more scared of us then we were of him. Just back out if you see one. There are no shafts or side tunnels in this mine. Quite a safe tunnel to explore.

There are other trails to Hackberry springs that start from the north east corner of the horse lot parking area. You can hike them as you check out the area. There is enough fun canyons, cliffs, caves and water, etc in this area to satisify your family for days. Check it out and look at the posts and trip reports on HAZ about this area. PM me if you have any questions.

[kingmantraveler]

Back again. Hopefully people won't think this subject's dead. Questions keep popping up.
My one remaining problem is the site for a base camp, outside the wilderness area.
The Peralta area is always an option, but I talked to a Tonto NF Rep in the Mesa office this morning (again) and he suggested we set up a base camp in the Bulldog Rec Area. I explained I'd like to find a fairly remote area to use as a base camp, and asked if there were roads that OHVs probably would not travel, (he'd mentioned that OHVs used the area) He said yes.
Does anyone have information on that area?
I don't want to have to be dodging quads, or having to have a person hang around the camp site all the time for security.
Many thanks.
Mike

[nonot]

Bulldog is more of the Goldfields, it probably sees less traffic than the Supes but I've never stayed there.

It's going to be tough getting away from the crowds doing car camping this close to Phoenix. Your best bet might be to go to the far side (east side) of the Supes and setting up camp somewhere alongside the road in.

Or if you have a really good 4x4, you could attempt Tortilla Road, that generally thins out the population.

[SuperstitionGuy]

The Bulldog Rec Area is a place that the USFS has set aside for large group camping where they can control the access. IE - this is where they send the groups that have little or no Leave No Trace values and love to sit around their fires all night shouting, singing and keeping everyone else in the canyon awake until 3 am in the morning. You would be very disappointed in the place. Think - Boy Scouts - ages 14 to 16..... And red necks ages 18 to 99...

:yuck:

[kingmantraveler]

Thanks, folks.
I'll stick with a site off the Peralta Road.
Mike

[SuperstitionGuy]

Mike,

If your going to be hiking out from the Peralta TH - consider doing the Barks Canyon (Lower) loop. It is a wonderful route when the water is flowing. Check it out on HAZ..

[kingmantraveler]

Well, our guests won't have "Omaha" weather next week out here, but it won't be super warm either. Oh well.
I'm thinking about starting out on 1st Water and walking straight East, down Peralta Trail. That way the ladies, who aren't bp'ing won't have to drive around to the 1st water TH a second time to pick us up. Looks like we'll be going through Bark's Cyn, too. Right, S. Guy?
Mike

[Reavishiker]

I agree with Joel. Even doing the entire Miner's Loop covers the vastness of the area with moderate terrain and great views.

[kingmantraveler]

(showing my ignorance) What trails comprise the "Miners' Loop"?