Superstitions "Never wore a pack"

[kingmantraveler]

Got some neices and nephews coming out on Spring Break from Omaha. They want to go into the Superstitions. They're city folk, never wore a pack.
I was thinking about going up Peralta Trail, cutting East on the cutoff trail, then coming back down the Needle and Dutchmans Trail in two days.
I've taken the AzT through these mountains, and went in via First Water a million years ago, but have never been on the Trails I mentioned above.
I was thinking of camping after the first day in the area of the cutoff trail, then coming back the next day.
I'd like your thoughts on this. I don't know what kind of physical shape they're in, and it looks like about a 1300 foot difference in elevation, between the Peralta TH and the cutoff. Might this be too much for youngsters? If it is, we could camp at or near Pinon Camp, then return the way we came in.
I know what I can do. Just don't know about them.
Any thoughts / advice would be helpful. Thanks.

[JoelHazelton]

Never having worn a pack, I would think 1300 ft elevation change with an overnight pack might be a bit much. They can probably do it, but it might not be as fun for them. The Bluff Springs loop is shorter and with less elevation gain. Same trailhead, too. Just take it counter-clockwise.

[Crocodile Ryan]

Maybe Reavis Ranch Via 109 South

Its about the same in elevation gain ~1800ft,

but you have water at the ranch, cutting quite a bit of weight off those packs, which will probably be most of the weight with the weather generally being great at that time of the year

[SuperstitionGuy]

What are their ages? And do you have comfortable packs for them to use? Also you can still get some very nasty weather in the Sups all the way to the end of March. Have a plan B in lower elevations with a base camp where you can hike out from instead of backpacking. There are lots of short trips from various points around the wilderness that you can use to give them the experience that they are looking for.

[kingmantraveler]

You bring up a good point, regarding gear, Sup. guy. Good reason not to backpack. I have the gear, but the wrong size pack is a pain.
I'm done with the Eastern part, Crocodile. Walked the AzT segment last Fall, from Roger's Trough to the Lake. Beautiful country.
You mentioned the Bluff Springs Loop, AzPride. I have a 1:24000 map in front of me, Az Pride. Is there a connecting trail South of Bluff Springs Mtn? I see one, called 'Cave Trail'. Is that it?

[Hoffmaster]

If your relatives are "city folk" and have never worn a pack, then I'd seriously reconsider backpacking. That's just asking for trouble and an unpleasant experience. There are plenty of great day hikes in the Supes that will give them a good sense of the area and provide a fabulous experience.
Of course, my first backpacking trip ever was in the Supes and I went solo, so I suppose my advice is a bit hypocritical. However, I had been on many, many day hikes in the Supes beforehand and I knew my level of fitness was to be envied by many. ;-)

Just out of curiosity, which trail is the "cut-off trail?" There is the "cross-cut" trail south of Weaver's Needle linking the Peralta Trail and Terrapin Trail, but it is more of a suggested route than an actual trail.

[joebartels]

Scratch Cave Trail off any beginners backpacking list of options.
Here's the popular Bluff Spring Loop
http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=12
counter-clockwise is recommended as azpride mentioned
There's several camping options between the Dutchman and the Terrapin

An easier option would be
Hackberry Spring Loop
http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=539
albeit considerably less fascinating it's a good beginner option. Personally I'd push for more if it's a one shot deal.

There's likely several other good ideas out there too.

[te_wa]

youngsters on spring break... I would guess they are between 18-21.
Peralta past Fremont Saddle-very easy to follow then you can set up at Pinon camp and return via Dutchman to Terrapin trail where they intersect at the base of Black Top Mesa, then on to Bluff Spring. This is moderate, only sketchy part is the last 1/4 mile of the Terrapin trail seems to continue down a drainage/tributary but takes a sharp left over a very small ridge. All I can add is bring your compass, the Beartooth Superstitions map, a gps if you desire, and pay close attention to cairns. The end of the Terrapin Trail is unmarked at its southern terminus w/ Bluff Spring trail but is easy to see if you cross the creek where you will look about 3o'clock and you will see it (bluff spring trail) leaving the creekbed. Then you have it made all the way to the Peralta trailhead.

another fantastic and must see area is leaving the parking lot at the Canyon Lake Marina and taking the Boulder Canyon trail to its junction with La Barge canyon (creek). Turn left and boulder hop along the magnificient Battleship Mountain to its end where the creek bends a hard left into the most scenic, if not out of the ordinary, little funky canyon called the "lower la barge box". There is camping right before you enter the "box". The views from the top of the Boulder Canyon trail are breathtaking, for someone that just showed up from Nebraska, make sure they brace themselves.

[joebartels]

youngsters on spring break... I would guess they are between 18-21

that deserves a title update!

[JoelHazelton]

The only 18-21 year olds I know that want to spend their spring break backpacking are... well... me. Actually, I'll be 22 by then, and last year I certainly didn't want to. If they were true 18-21 year old spring-breakers they'd bypass the Supes and Phoenix and just beeline it to either Rocky Point or Lake Havasu.

[mttgilbert]

I'd go with the Hackberry loop that Joe suggested (hesitantly). Its an easy hike, it showcases some canyons. Though not as grand as La Barge or Boulder, its a good hike. There are also some mine shafts and indian ruins to pique interest. I don't know about normal 18-21 year olds (mostly because I never was one - normal, that is), but I would think that canyons, springs in the desert, indian ruins, and old abandoned mines couldn't possibly be a bad time. All you have to do is shoulder the bulk of the group gear, give them nice light loads (less than 25lbs) in the ill fitting packs (assume they're ill fitting), and everyone will have a great time! I would definately avoid elevation though, especially if you don't know what kind of shape they're in.

[kingmantraveler]

My TOPO calls it the "Needle Cutoff Trail", Hoffmaster. Probably known by another name by those who hike that area.
It runs E and W, between Peralta Trail and Needle Trail, (which I guess is really "Terrapin" Trail), just South of Black Top Mesa.
I'll check out the sites you listed, Joe. thanks.
The trail from Black Top South is called the Needle Trail for a ways, then changes to the Dutchman's Trail, farher South. I'll keep your directions in mind, te-wa, where you say it gets a little tricky. I'm beginning to wish they would goto Havasu. (shouldn't say that, but it's for their own good)
Really appreciate your humor, Matt. Me carry the weight, while they enjoy the scenery. I don't think so.
My daughter and I are walking the Az Trail, a segment or two at a time. So far, we've covered a little over 400 miles. She's 5'2", 120 lbs, and carries 35 lbs. I carry 10 lbs less, but can still barely keep up with her. The Republic's going to be running articles my local paper's been printing, (in a slightly longer format) so that gives me impetus to finish the final 400. I'll have to walk the GC, but, unless it's Wilderness, we'll probably bike a large part of the remainder. And, next to the Huachucas, the Superstitions was by far the most difficult segment we've done, so far.

[azbackpackr]

I feel compelled to comment that at age 18-22 (1971-75) I would have gone backpacking year-round if it had been possible! And I definitely went during spring break!

[djui5]

Here is my opinion. Take First Water (green) to 2nd water(yellow), then you can either cut across Black Mesa(red) or head down into 2nd water Spring and take Boulder Canyon (blue) South. Both trails arrive at a large "basin" where you can see Weavers Needle. From there you can take the Dutchman's Trail (green) out. This would be a great hike for them as it's relatively easy and not too far. Plus limited elevation change. Camping in the basin is recommended, though if you take the Boulder Trail you'll probably wind up camping either near 2nd water spring or somewhere in Boulder Canyon. The Boulder Canyon route would be a lot more work though, as it's a lot of Boulder hopping. Sure is a great hike though. I can make a much larger copy of this map if you'd like to print it. I put X's on the map where the trail changes would be (except the first one, it's a given). The trails on this route are VERY well marked too.

I'd HIGHLY recommend NOT taking the cutoff trail if you hike in from Peralta. That's not a trail for beginners (spring breakers). It's a bit rough cutting across there.

Either way please be very careful. You already know how it is back there Take lots of water of course, and gatoraide.

[kingmantraveler]

Great, djui5! Thanks. I want to study this more. I bp'ed into Parker Pass in '83 for a few days.
During the month of August. ( I think it's called masochism).
Anyhow, as I remember, it wasn't a hard hike. I'll get ink for my trusty printer tomorrow, and copy the map, and, like I said, study your comments.

[tonyp]

Boulder Canyon with high stream flow is not a good route for novice hikers, especially if they're under a load.
Two weeks ago, I lost count after my 14th crossing - all of them deep and wide. That makes poor odds.
You're best outcome is that when they fall in, it will be warm enough that you can all laugh about it.
Personally, I'd take Dutchman down to the upper part of Boulder Canyon, dip your feet a bit, camp around Caballo, then cut across Black Mesa, show them the garden, and be back at First Water with daylight to spare.

Learn from my mistakes:
Novice hikers guarantee a slow start and a slower pace. Deep breath. Ten miles/day max. Have a fallback plan in case one of them melts down.

[kingmantraveler]

I'll be going down to the Valley this weekend, plan to walk part of the trail tomorrow.
Looking forward.
It's been 24 years since I last was on it
Back then, there were a bunch of squatters outside the Trailhead living in travel trailers and old motor homes. I understand that area's been cleaned out for quite awhile. I've not been to Aylor's Caballo Camp, but it sounds like a good place to drop a sleeping bag, at least in the middle of the week, which is when all the Spring Breakers will be here.
Thanks again for all your help. I'll stay in touch.

[azbackpackr]

Someone said ten miles a day max? I'd say ten miles a day is a lot for novice hikers toting gear. I'd look for a route with no more than five miles per day. Set up camp early, do a little exploring without the big pack on.

[kingmantraveler]

Went down and walked a part of the Dutchman's Trail, past Parker Pass. My wife conked out, so we turned around.
I know it's a long weekend, but the trail was packed!
We drove around to the Peralta side, and looked for decent camping spots. There were some. Covered with shotgun shells, broken glass and old tires. Sad.
Another feature; I hadn't been on the West (1st Water) side since '83, and was fascinated by the amount of residential building. Right up the mountain. If ya got the money, you can build wherever you want. That's sad too. I guess some people opine that their houses only enhance the beauty of the mountain.
Some might say it's what's inside the mountain that counts, and that's true for those who haven't seen it when it wasn't peppered with houses.
On our way home, we drove down a couple dirt roads between Hwy 97 and Burro Creek. Found some good camping spots, so I guess I'll take the kids there. Too bad. There are some good stories to tell about Morrow, the Aylors, the Petrasch brothers, etc when they lived in the Superstitions.
Many thanks for all your suggestions, folks.

[djui5]

You got stories!! Please do tell!!! Especially about the Petrasch brothers