Cliffs or Slopes NW of the North Rim

[Jim]

Yesterday when I was on the summit of Humphrey enjoying the view for a while I noticed some cliffs northwest of the North Rim of the Canyon. I have seen them many times before but never really thought much about them. They have been standing out very well in the clear winter air lately and I have started to wonder what and where they are. My best guess using the HAZ map is that they are either the cliffs north of Colorado City, and just south of Zion NP, or possibly that they are cliffs or south facing slopes of a small range west of I-15 and Hurricane City, UT. They stick up pretty high and they have snow on them, so they may be the ones west of I-15, but it seems more likely that they are north of Colorado City, but those aren't that high so I have my doubts. Since I can see them, you should be able see the Peaks from them, so if you know what they are let me know. Even though southern Arizona and pretty much everything south of the Peaks was under some high clouds yesterday, far north AZ was clear and had exceptional visibility.

I'm going to look to see if I have any pictures of them.

[Jim]

I can't find any pics of them and I don't have the time to sift through all the HAZ sets from places that might. We (me included) seem to take a lot of the same shots over and over. I think I can stop posting sets to Humphrey, I've certainly saturated that area. Any way, the cliffs or slopes are about 2/3 of the way west from the North Rim to Mt Trumbull and appear to stand 2 to 3 thousand feet above the horizon in that area. If you know what they are (Rob) I would love to know. I will try to remember to bring my camera and get a shot of them.

I was looking on SP and it seems I am probably seeing the Pine Valley Mountains with 10,365' Signal Peak as the high point of the range. That seems more likely than cliffs south of Zion NP and north to Colorado City, since those only get to 7,000'. Pretty neat that you can see to Navajo Mt and the Pine Valley Mts from Humphrey.

[maxpower]

Hmmm, Signal Peak area, at 10,365 ft and west of I-15 and north of St. George would be 170 miles from Humphreys as the crow flies, according to a MapSource route. Is that a visible distance from that height? I'm not too familiar with what's visible in any distance from Humphreys but that seems like an awful long way. I'm just going over the map, trying for something that would be at least 10,000 feet high in that direction. I'm guessing you'd need that at least to be visible over the north rim.

Mammoth Summit, east of Cedar City would be 173 miles and 10,440 feet elevation.

Navajo Peak, southeast of Cedar City and south of Route 14 would be a bit closer at 162 miles and 9965 feet.

It might actually not take that much to see over the north rim though. Mt Trumbull is just over 8,000 feet, but a straight line shot from Humphreys takes you over the more western part of the north rim where it's only around 6,000 feet high and on a line just a bit west of Havasu Canyon, and it's only 110 miles distance.

[PaleoRob]

You talking cliffs or peaks? Could very well be the Utah Vermilions. From Crazy Jug Point (west of the developed NR area), you can see both the Utah Vermilions (as well as the Kolob Plateau) and the Peaks.
Pics?

[big_load]

Is that a visible distance from that height?

Yes, it could be. I know of a couple objects visible from 150 miles from places with vertical relief similar to Humphreys.

[PaleoRob]

You can see the Henrys from the top of the Paria Plateau - well over 100 miles.

[Jim]

the cliffs or slopes are about 2/3 of the way west from the North Rim to Mt Trumbull and appear to stand 2 to 3 thousand feet above the horizon in that area.

Here's how I propose to look at it. Use our map to zoom in on the area roughly from Humphrey to St George and have it set on terrain. The canyon is obvious as is the large side canyon that eats into the AZ strip south of Fredonia. That side canyon is visible from Humphrey, and the feature in question is NW of that. Trumbull is obvious from Humphrey and can be spotted on the map. There do not appear to be any other features out there, and these are very far away often looking hazy over the distance even on a clear day like yesterday. Thats what I did and seeing pics of the Pine Valley Mts led me to my conclusion. I'll try to get pics next time I am out if they are visible.

Some additional points:
Navajo Mt is about 140 to 150 miles from Humphrey, and it is huge and very obvious, so 170 isn't that far.
It looks like cliffs, but they are white and the Pine Valley Mts look like cliffs from that aspect.
The cliffs west of Page and NW of Bitter Springs are very large and obvious from Humphrey. See my recent pics.
The echo cliffs along US 89 are also quite prominent from Humphrey.
The White mountains are very easy to spot from Humphrey and I suspect if there was a clear shot from the Apache ski resort anyone could see the Peaks easily.
I could see the exhaust from the SRP Navajo Generating Station the last two days, and also the APS Cholla plant out by Holbrook. NGS is low on the horizon, but Cholla is a feature you have to pick out on the earth.

Keep in mind winter visibility is 10x better than the very hazy conditions that exist the rest of the year. I've been up there some days when the North Rim is hard to pick out, and others like yesterday when you could practically touch it.

Rob, you should hike Humphrey one of these days, and I recommend late fall to winter when we have the best visibility. It turns by March, or has as long as I have been going up there. Granted some days are really good like this period we have been in since the last storm, and then there are bad ones at any time of year, but generally, once the springs winds get going in March, or even February sometimes, visibility falls. By summer it's nearly non-existent. Not to turn this into a Peaks visibility discussion, but the time of year everyone does Humphrey is simply the worst time of year to do it. Rain, lighting, hail, days with almost no visibility, and crowds, crowds, crowds! Yesterday, I had the mountain to myself except when I ran into two unfriendlies on the rim and enjoyed unrivaled summit views all by myself.

[Jim]

I'm adding a new photo set since I have some decent pictures from New Years Day that have some of what I talk about in them. I did not take a picture of the area of interest. It looks like I have put up a ton of the exact same images for Humphrey. I guess I like snow.

Anyway, these are more of the view and then some more normal junk shots to the south to round out the set. There was an inversion that day so there is some low level haze in the images. 1/5 had very clear conditions with less low level haze, but still an inversion, and the views to the north were better. Clouds and low level haze were coming in from the south yesterday 1/6, so the only really clear area was the NW. None of that matters since I left the camera home and never seemed to capture the area from Trumbull to the North Rim.

http://hikearizona.com/photoset.php?ID=13833

[maxpower]

One interesting way to look at this is to use Google Earth too. If you had a definite compass direction from the summit of Humphreys, you can tilt Google Earth, aim in that direction and then alternately zoom in and out and click on different summits and cliffs as they appear. I fooled around a bit, doing this but without the compass direction it's a shot in the dark. It could be fun though, if it's a rainy day and you have nothing better to do.

[joebartels]

In TOPO! (should work for Google Earth too) it's easiest to put colored (and numbered if applicable) flags on the peaks you think it is then tilt the 3D terrain. In TOPO! you can exaggerate the terrain too, subtle peaks/rims don't look like much at the state level.

[Jim]

At this point I'm pretty sure they are the Pine Valley Mountains. I just need a photograph of them from a nice clear day. I need to get up there again.

[PaleoRob]

Hiked Humphrey back when I was living in Flag one time. You're right - I should get back and do it again. Pine Valley Mountains might be a good bet - right direction and very high for the area. Certainly would be white this time of year too.

[Jim]

One time!? ONE TIME?! My god man! I have 72 summits under my belt! What's wrong with you?! Only 1 time?!

[PaleoRob]

I have no excuse for my failings. I should get back down there and do it again. Maybe I'll even bring along my snow shoes.

[azbackpackr]

I have no excuse for my failings. I should get back down there and do it again. Maybe I'll even bring along my snow shoes.

Let me know! I'll rent snowshoes, if I can find a place that rents good ones. I own a pair but they are serious cheapos.

[Jim]

I was just kidding, but good to know you acknowledge your failures. You should try to come out on one of my remaining trips before I move to low elevation and lose all of my altitude acclimatization.

[Jim]

Yesterday was a bust:
http://hikearizona.com/photo.php?ZIP=173932

but it should be better tomorrow, so I hope to get out and capture them tomorrow. I just hope there isn't an inversion as it looks like there is right now.

[PaleoRob]

Bummer. Looking forward to the pics...whenever they come.

[hippiepunkpirate]

Talking about visibility, last summer, my parents could see the smoke plume of the Schultz Fire from near Zion National Park. We're talking day 1 of the Schultz Fire, not later after it shot smoke hundreds of miles to the northeast.

[Jim]

Day 1 was the big day. Makes sense, since Zion isn't that far away.