Old Grandview Trail - Lower • Hike • Arizona • All Triplogs • HikeArizona.COM

Grapevine Creek - Grand Canyon

Northwest, AZ

Backpack		Nov 11 2022
		shelby147 • Triplogs 119

Backpack	30.00 Miles	7,500 AEG

Backpack	30.00 Miles	3 Days
	7,500 ft AEG		28 LBS Pack

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Made a trip out to Grapevine to scout the redwall route that Harvey describes. Overall, a very enjoyable trip! In addition to the beaten path we visited the river via old grandview and the narrows below the tonto crossing.

Day 1: we got a cold and early start down Grandview. There is snow and ice to the coconino already. At horseshoe mesa we encountered a large group also heading to Grapevine - that surprised me. We were quite far ahead of them when we reached the old grandview cairn and dropped our heavy packs.

The lower section of grandview is in great shape for being so obscure! It's well cairned and follows a very natural break through the tapeats. It seemed illogical to go over the first saddle in the basement rocks but it was clearly indicated. Down here we had a great view upriver and at the pouroffs in Cottonwood. We saw rafts floating all in a line down the river - reminded me of ducklings. The trail braids a bit before crossing a ridge and heading down a narrow chute. I wouldn't have gone here without indication - it looks so improbable. Then over another small saddle and down a long ravine to the river. Some loose footing but nowhere that feels like you're about to fall over a cliff. We had a short break at the river and the return hike was faster than the way down. On the way up I bonked my head on an overhanging branch... guess I shouldn't wear baseball caps in places like this (it isn't the first time). I'm fine, though!

We hiked the rest of the way in to the camps on the eastern arm of Grapevine. Turns out the big group are high schoolers on a school trip doing a big section of Tonto. At camp we had mice coming under the vestibule (we were snacking in the tent). This was not pleasant but stopped (I think) after we hung the food. A bit surprising as I thought this was an unpopular camp.

Day 2: we had a leisurely morning before starting up Grapevine. The tapeats narrows are beautiful! We could follow the creek for almost a mile before a chockstone and some falls forced us out of the bed. It's easy to find the exit. We were able to drop back in and easily follow the creek for a while in the shale too. We found some stone structures around here... 2 circles about knee-high and maybe 10ft in diameter. Not sure what they're from.

The cottonwoods were turning in the creek and beautiful. But the going got very slow when we encountered Grapevine's namesake. We stuck to low game trails which weren't great. Around here we found a dead ram with big horns. The creekbed clears up again near the redwall. Below the fall we easily located the redwall route on the east side. We ascended a boulder field to the amphitheater then circled around to our approach. I scrambled high enough to look over the fall - maybe 1/3 of the way up. But I'd left my pack below and wasn't in the mood to scramble all the way up then back down without a spotter. On the way down I took a wrong turn and ended up downclimbing while straddling an agave. Not my happiest moment. There was a bit of a game trail on the talus here and the scrambling was probably class 3 so I definitely want to return and connect to the trail above.

On our hike back down we followed a ridge west of the creek to avoid the grapevine tangles and other vegetation. Game trails and footing were much better here. Back at camp, we explored the tapeats narrows below Tonto. My friend climbed up the pouroff into the west arm of grapevine but I'm not much of a climber and I couldn't get up.

Day 3: another relatively late start. Clouds started rolling in and making pretty light when we were in Cottonwood. As we ascended we watched snow start to fall below the north rim. We got flurries then were briefly enveloped in gentle snow above the coconino. On the rim I watched the clouds part to the west. There was a little bit of a cloud inversion, which I've been wanting to see in the canyon for ages. What a gorgeous finale to the weekend.

Apr 25 2019

rsamartino

Photos 28
Triplogs 3

37 male

Joined Apr 29 2019
Chandler, AZ

Northwest, AZ

Hiking		Apr 25 2019
		rsamartino • Triplogs 3

Hiking	1.56 Miles	1,288 AEG

Hiking	1.56 Miles
	1,288 ft AEG

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I arrived at the South Rim Backcountry office without a camping reservation, hoping to backpack the Hermit Trail. This was not to be. However, I did secure three nights at Cottonwood Creek off of Horseshoe Mesa. A bit disappointed since I'd hiked the Grandview Trail before, I started the descent into the Canyon still knowing I'd have a great several days of camping at this tranquil spot.

Heading down the trail, I passed some backpackers heading up a steep 'riprap' section. We stopped to chat, and I mentioned I'd be staying at Cottonwood for three nights. I saw one of the hiker's face light up. 'Oh,' he said, 'there's a trail heading down to the river off of the Tonto trail... the Old Grandview trail.' I was interested to hear this but apprehensive since I don't normally do off-trail hiking, and had never heard of this route. 'Heading west on the Tonto, you'll pass cliffs, then see something that looks like a rockslide. Totally unmaintained, unmarked trail, but it'll get you to the River,' he said. 'It's rough...' then he looked me over for a second, 'but you look like you could handle it.' Not sure if I was up for such a Canyon adventure, I thanked him for the information and moved on.

The next day I headed west on the Tonto trail intending to spend the day at Grapevine Creek, when I passed the precipitous cliffs mentioned by my unexpected guide. I saw a secondary cliff just ahead, below the Tonto formation. 'If there is an Old Grandview trail,' I thought, 'it would have to go down there.' As I approached this section, the Tonto trail turned away from the cliff edge, and a protrusion of the Tonto layer extended closer to the river. Always looking for photo opportunities, I decided to explore this area which offers great views of the Colorado River. A huge cairn marked the Tonto Trail right around here. 'Maybe it just marks this as a good location for photographs,' I thought, 'or maybe...'. I didn't see anything resembling a rockslide, so I wasn't convinced I'd found the Old Grandview trail. However, as I picked my way through the brush, I saw some smaller cairns. Curious, I followed these closer to the edge of the Tonto formation, and lo and behold, a hiking trail! I saw a somewhat well defined switchback adorned with yet another cairn. I knew I'd found Old Grandview. 'Maybe it's rough,' I thought, 'but if there's a trail there, I can hike it.' I grabbed my pack and headed off the Tonto for this adventure.

Reassured by how well defined the trail seemed, I was still a bit apprehensive given the sheer steepness of the cliffs in the area. I started down slowly, knowing I could turn around if things got too rough. The trail was actually relatively easy as I descended below the Tonto formation and made my way toward the saddle I'd seen earlier. And the views of the Colorado were incredible.

I carefully continued on the trail and made it up and over a ridge to the final descent to the river. The footing was not great the whole time; here it became worse and the trail much steeper. Still things were manageable and I came closer to my unexpected destination.

Finally, I arrived at a small sandy beach next to the peacefully flowing Colorado River. Feeling a sense of accomplishment, I put down my things and refreshed myself in the cold water. I hung out for a while, watching a rafting trip go by and getting some nice photos of the river in both directions.

The time came to head back, and the trip up from the river proved difficult. Gravity and the loose footing made climbing the trail difficult, and I'll admit I went to all fours at certain points to lower my center of gravity. I neared the top of this section, and some unexpected cloud cover seemed to be turning into a storm. I heard a rumble of thunder and looked back at the river. I could see the water rippling upstream toward me as strong winds headed my way. As I reached the top of this saddle, the winds hit and I simply leaned into a rock as very strong wind gusts pressed me into my temporary shelter. I got a sense for the powerful forces that have shaped this incredible canyon over the millions of years.

Finally the winds and a few raindrops passed, and I headed over the saddle, back up to the Tonto formation. I looked upstream, and amazingly a rainbow started to form over the river, from the South Rim to the North. I pulled out my camera and tried capturing the moment. I took a seat and simply took in the scenery. The moving clouds, changing light on the 'Vishnu' rock cliffs, and sunny upper reaches of the canyon beyond struck me as a sublimely beautiful scene. I just marveled to think how I had ended up at this spot and how, 10 minutes in either direction, I would not have seen this rainbow which now faded from view.

I climbed out of the lower canyon and made it back to the Tonto Trail, happy with my journey and accomplishment. The Old Grandview was certainly a challenge, but in this case provided me with a reward worth that effort and many times over.

Mar 16 2019

FOTG

Guides 37
Routes 556
Photos 10,872
Triplogs 1,052

43 male

Joined Jan 21 2013
AZ

Northwest, AZ

Hike & Climb		Mar 16 2019
		FOTG • Triplogs 1,052

Hike & Climb	36.00 Miles	11,182 AEG

Hike & Climb	36.00 Miles	3 Days
	11,182 ft AEG

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Dave1

I brought Dave out of retirement for a big one and Karl came along because of course he only does the most epic of Grand Canyon summits. Vishnu had been on my radar since the fall, but Karl and I only made a very half-hearted attempt at it back in October. My original plan this time around, included the same long approach via Unkar. However, on the drive to the Canyon, Dave suggested an alternative approach (Vishnu Canyon) that would be far more scenic, however, it included a redwall break ascent to reach the saddle of Vishnu that was unknown to us. We knew it went, but we really did not have much beta past that. We ultimately went with the Vishnu Canyon approach despite the unknown and it turned out to be an excellent last minute change as Vishnu Canyon proved to be a real gem and the red wall route went!

We started from Grandview Trail at 10:00 a.m. Karl and I wore micro spikes to start, Dave decline. Other than some recent rock slides hindering travel a bit on Grandview, the descent was uneventful. Cottonwood Creek was flowing nicely and proved to be a pleasant section of trail. The Tonto was the Tonto and then it was the turn off for The Old Grandview. The drop down O.G. was steep and loose in spots, but I enjoyed my first time on this steep path to the river. The crossing to Vishnu Canyon went very smoothly and before long we were stashing the rafts and heading up Canyon. Vishnu Canyon was flowing nicely for most of the hike up canyon to camp. In fact, the flowing water created some modest obstacles for up canyon travel, but we managed fine with a little team work. A significant bypass right before camp proved to be a bit of an pumpkin kicker, so needless to say we were happy to finally reach the superb overhang camp around 7:00 p.m. A tough little 14 mile day for such a late start. We did get our first glimpse of the redwall route we would be taking the next day and let's just say it did not leave an easy feeling with me, as it looked pretty steep and nasty from afar.

We left camp around 7:30 on day two and made our way to the red wall break, which slowly began to look less formidable as we approached it. The route was steep and involved a huge bypass to clear a set of falls the guarded the lower portions of the route, but overall it was really not that bad. From the saddle we used a combination of Dave’s memory and the Tomasi directions to reach the crux climb. The climb is only advertised as class four, but I am certain the climb requires at least one legitimate climbing move to send and I would rate it some where around the lowest class five rating in my opinion. I strung a hand line at the top for Karl and Dave to follow and soon enough we were all up. It was a little more Supai and then on to the loose rock slide prone Coconino portion of the climb, which we got through with out too much difficulty. Before long we were staring at the boulder obstacle that had foiled Dave a few years before. I wedged myself up, ran another handline for the boys and all of a sudden we were up and making our final push to the summit cap. There was a little snow still lingering in this portion, which made things a little slippery, but nothing a little extra attention could not mitigate. It took a brief moment to find the final little boulder problem to reach the base of the cap and the final 10 foot "class four" climb to the summit, but we found it and then without much hesitation I was up the final climb and securing another handline for the boys. This time however, the job was made easier by some webbing that was left behind. A final loose scramble and we were finally on top.

What a summit and what a feeling! The conditions were perfect. We were the 57th group to reach the summit according to the pretty detailed register, which had every summit numbered since the new canister and register were put into place at the 24th ascent. As per the norm with these big Canyon summits, the excitement was slightly tempered, as we knew we had a lot of down climbing to do and a few raps to set up, before we were completely out of the clear. The raps went smoothly and the down climb although tedious at times went fine as well. The steep descent back through the redwall was a tad taxing, in fact, it made us excited for boulder hopping and ankle breakers in Vishnu Creek. We got back to camp just before dark, ate a ton of food and celebrated with Reeses per FOTG tradition.

The packraft back across the Colorado River was the only thing noteworthy about our return. We were able to utilize a back eddy that brought us nearly a couple tenths of a mile back up stream and then beyond the Old Grandview beach to a point where we felt comfortable enough to begin the mad paddle across to the relatively small landing area.

Great trip, great group and an amazing summit. It was real nice to knock this one out with a little teamwork and a couple of good friends. It’s always more special when you have to grind them out a little and rely on your own some vs being a bystander and relying on others to guide you up. I am already thinking about a return to this area, to be continued..

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11 archives

Mar 16 2019

BiFrost

Guides 4
Routes 491
Photos 10,890
Triplogs 1,257

55 male

Joined Nov 20 2012
Phoenix, AZ

Northwest, AZ

Hike & Climb		Mar 16 2019
		BiFrost • Triplogs 1,257

Hike & Climb	36.00 Miles	11,182 AEG

Hike & Climb	36.00 Miles	3 Days
	11,182 ft AEG

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Back in October last year Lee and I made a Vishnu attempt but was half hearted at best. So we returned with Dave for another shot who suggested a twist on the approach going up Vishnu Canyon instead of Unkar. This proved to be a great decision even though we were unsure of the redwall break. Hiking down from Grandview Trailhead there was still some decent snow so we used micro spikes which was only top 3/4 mile or so. Then we hiked past Horseshoe Mesa and then down to Cottonwood Creek. Very nice along Cottonwood Creek with great water the whole way. Then we hiked the Tonto west towards Old Grandview trail that took us down to the river. Old Grandview is rough and steep but fun access to the river. Once at the river with packrafts inflated and Vishnu Canyon in sight we launched from the beach and crossed the 1/2 to the other side.

After getting our packs reorganized we started up Vishnu Creek which was just as Dave had described. Well worth the effort with narrows and good water most of the way. We ended up camping maybe 5 miles upstream to put us in striking distance of Vishnu Temple for the next day. We had a great overhang camp which proved to be very comfortable base camp for two nights.

Day 2 we started our day hike summit initially following Vishnu Canyon upstream. Eventually it gets to the redwall base where we had to find the route. As Lee mentioned we had only partial info on the route but managed to find it and bypass some large dry falls in the canyon. The route dropped us back in the drainage above the dry falls where we continued up the redwall break to Vishnu Saddle. Took a short break and then continued on approach reaching the first obstacle the Supai Crux fairly quickly. Setup a hand line and everyone made it up. There were two more obstacles that required a hand line assist with Lee making the lead climb to set the line. The last one was right below the summit but we were all really happy to have reached the summit and took in the fantastic views. We also had excellent weather with sunny skies and almost no wind on the summit. Checked out the register, celebrated the successful climb and then packed up to head back down. It was a long hike back to camp especially back to the saddle with the rappels and scrambling. After the saddle it was back through the redwall break and finally at camp just before dark. Another nice night at camp with the satisfaction that we accomplished our summit goal!!

Next morning we headed back down Vishnu Canyon to the river. The river crossing was more interesting going back utilizing the backflow eddy that allowed us to paddle upstream and cross over the launch beach at Old Grandview. Quite the workout but everyone made it across in one piece. Then we packed up and hiked out the very steep Old Grandview trail to Tonto. On the Tonto we had some good bonus views of Vishnu across the river as we headed towards Cottonwood Canyon. After that it was the usual grind to get out of the canyon. Some snow still lingering near the rim to make it interesting. Great hike...thanks to Lee for getting the permits and Dave for the Vishnu Canyon suggestion

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1 archive

Aug 25 2018

Hippy

Guides 8
Routes 12
Photos 1,918
Triplogs 662

39 female

Joined Dec 02 2009
Grand Canyon

4th Moron Festival, AZ

Hiking		Aug 25 2018
		Hippy • Triplogs 662

Hiking	9.00 Miles	3,500 AEG

Hiking	9.00 Miles
	3,500 ft AEG

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A "moron" is someone who hikes somewhere at a time they probably shouldn't (like rim to rim in July with no water or something stupid like that) so now a bunch of us get together every July or August for really ridiculous or long or simply fun offtrail hikes:

Eight or nine of us met near the GV fire tower, camped the night then started hiking bright and early... at 8am
We carpooled to GV TH and started walking back up the road about half a mile to the area where Old Grandview lays hidden.

It was fairly easy to find the Old TH especially with a handful of us all shouting directions and such.

The break through the Kaibab and Toroweap was much more straightforward than I expected. How Berry and Cameron got mules down certain sections we'll never know!

From the parking lot to the junction with the modern GV trail we took almost TWO hours. What were we doing!!?

The old trail was very fun, lots of old rusty stuff, old trail work too!

We hiked down off the east side of Horseshoe Mesa, there is a wicked redwall break south of the modern trail I gotta try that one!!

Finally, FINALLY, got to thoroughly explore some caves I've been aching to visit!! I may have had eye leakage when I finally saw the entrance to one I've wished to see for years

We explored two caves and oggled the entrance of a third that requires some bravado and climbing skills to enter. It was a vertical entrance, too much risk for me thanks.

Just before the caves we got to visit an old dried up spring, Harvey Butchart mentioned this spring in his logs as being dry in the 50s or 60s. Surprise! It's still bone dry. From the spring that cool redwall break was visible but only two of us were interested so we skipped it this trip
The use path out to the old spring is very obvious and we'll travelled. It's almost down the modern redwall break just east of where the modern trail turns north, above the Cottonwood switchbacks.

Before you go:
"Under the current park policy, All caves (with the exception of the Cave of the Domes on Horseshoe Mesa) are currently closed to visitation, except for research purposes. Please contact Edward Schenk, Physical Science Program Manager, for additional information (928) 638-7817."

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Canyon Freak Adventures!

Sep 28 2017

BiFrost

Guides 4
Routes 491
Photos 10,890
Triplogs 1,257

55 male

Joined Nov 20 2012
Phoenix, AZ

Northwest, AZ

Backpack		Sep 28 2017
		BiFrost • Triplogs 1,257

Backpack	39.09 Miles	9,550 AEG

Backpack	39.09 Miles	4 Days
	9,550 ft AEG

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slowandsteady

Back to the Grand Canyon to finish some more Tonto Trail and check out Old Grandview Trail. Took a taxi from GC Visitor Center to Grandview TH…$24 one way for anyone considering the option. First night the goal was camp at Cottonwood Creek from Grandview TH so we only had to hike about 6.8 miles. Starting about 130 we made it camp by 530. Being the drier part of the year there was no water at the crossing of Cottonwood so dropped the pack and ventured upstream and found some small pools about ¼ mile up as well as nice camp close by among some cottonwoods.

Day 2 we wanted to check out Old Grandview Trail down to the Colorado River which is about 2.5 miles from Cottonwood Creek. There is a large cairn marking the junction which drops abruptly from the rim towards the river. The first part is not too bad but the bottom half is very steep and loose scree and boulders abound. Once at the river we took a nice long break spending over an hour. Two boat crews passed by and one offered a beverage which is always welcome

After the break we headed back up which was much easier going up the scree and took about 30 minutes less. Back at the junction it’s 3 miles over to Grapevine Canyon and camp for the second night. Again no water at the crossing but there were some clear pools downstream a few hundred yards.

Day 3 the camp was at Lonetree Canyon continuing west bound on Tonto Trail but our main concern was water. So we headed out early with the goal of spending the afternoon searching for water. Fortunately we found it about 3 or 4 tenths of mile downstream from the trail crossing. The source is a spring that’s probably reliable all year and is marked by a lone cottonwood tree. We rested in the shade and filtered water with the relief that the search was easier than expected. Then headed back to camp and relaxed rest of the afternoon.

Day 4 just needed to make it out of the canyon with little more 10 miles to South Kaibab TH. Of course there were very few people seeing only 3 in 23 miles from Horseshoe Mesa below Grandview to the Tip Off at South Kaibab. Once on the SK it was back to the crowds but nice to do this trip in 4 days with plenty of time to enjoy Old Grandview Trail and Tonto Trail.

Culture

Culture [ checklist ]

[ checklist ] Costume

	Boulder Creek	Dry	Dry
	no water

	Burro Creek - GC	Dry	Dry
	no water

	Cottonwood Creek	Pools to trickle	Pools to trickle
	Dry at the crossing. Went upstream about 1/4 mile and found small pools.

	Cremation Creek	Dry	Dry
	no water

	Grapevine 3,648	Dripping	Dripping
	small pools across and above the trail from the spring

	Grapevine Creek	Pools to trickle	Pools to trickle
	no water at the crossing but several pools few hundred yards downstream.

	Lonetree Creek - GC	Pools to trickle	Pools to trickle
	dry at the crossing. spring about 3 to 4 tenths of mile downstream that looks reliable under lone cottonwood tree

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3 archives

Sep 28 2017

slowandsteady

Routes 67
Photos 966
Triplogs 694

51 female

Joined Jan 05 2012
Phoenix,AZ

Northwest, AZ

Backpack		Sep 28 2017
		slowandsteady • Triplogs 694

Backpack	39.09 Miles	9,550 AEG

Backpack	39.09 Miles	4 Days
	9,550 ft AEG

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Old Grandview is pretty steep. I did a good portion as a butt scoot. Hiking back up was much easier than going down. We did see a bighorn on the trail.

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Mar 25 2016

arizona_water

Guides 9
Routes 118
Photos 1,079
Triplogs 118

35 male

Joined Mar 06 2016
Salt River Valle

Grandview and Old Grandview, AZ

Backpack		Mar 25 2016
		arizona_water • Triplogs 118

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Backpack		3 Days

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This was my first time on the Grandview trail. I did not have route scout going (this was my pre-route scout life), so I'm not quite sure of the total mileage for this trip.

Friday: Arrived at Grandview Point at last light on Friday evening. Hiked to Cottonwood Creek in the dark and noticed many places where my high beam shown off the side of the path in to total darkness. Don't fall!

The hike down only took three hours.

Saturday: Day hike from Cottonwood Creek down to the Tonto trail. We headed West and hit the Old Grandview Trail. My buddy Ben packed his large-format film camera and gear down there... :wlift:

He's a professional so it must have been worth it

We at lunch on the banks of the Mighty Colorado.

Unfortunately for Ben, he started to feel super sick on the hike back up from the River, but somehow managed to get his heavy camera bag and himself off the Old Grandview without any of us sharing his gear.
When we arrived back at the junction of Cottonwood Creek and the Tonto Trail, the rest of our crew headed back to our campsite where we had left our gear that morning. I hit up the Cottonwood Creek narrows. It's nice down there.

Sunday: Got an early start and explored all the cool stuff on Horseshoe Mesa, then took our time back up the Grandview. Stopped for Diablo Burgers in Flag because that's a necessity.

Named place

Named place [ checklist ]

[ checklist ] Grapevine Rapids

	Cottonwood Creek	Medium flow	Medium flow
	This creek sung me to sleep <3

	Grapevine Creek	Pools to trickle	Pools to trickle
	Definitely a trickle here. Enough to filter, but we didn't need to. I was not expecting Grapevine to be flowing at all, so this was exciting!

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- there's nothing like finding Water in the Desert -

2 archives

Nov 27 2015

John9L

Guides 6
Routes 183
Photos 5,612
Triplogs 1,647

male

Joined Mar 12 2004
Scottsdale, AZ

Northwest, AZ

Backpack		Nov 27 2015
		John9L • Triplogs 1,647

Backpack	20.75 Miles	5,800 AEG

Backpack	20.75 Miles	3 Days
	5,800 ft AEG

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clairebear

We decided to head back to the Grand Canyon for Thanksgiving weekend and got lucky with some Cottonwood Creek permits off the Grandview Trail. We spent three days below the rim and had a sweet hike down the Old Grandview Trail.

We left Phoenix on Friday morning and drove up to the Grand Canyon and started hiking around 11:30am. We made quick time down the Grandview Trail and descended the west side to Cottonwood Creek. We selected a campsite and then spent some time day hiking around the area. We knew it would get dark early so we returned to camp where we ate dinner and hydrated. It was dark by 6pm and got cold soon after. We spent the evening in the tent in our sleeping bags. I have a new zero degree bag and was very comfy throughout the cold night.

Day two started slow for us. We took our time and had breakfast and coffee. We left camp after 10am and headed west on the Tonto for the Old Grandview Trail. The hike was only a few miles and we easily found the large cairn signaling the start. From there we made the descent and were happy to see an established route. As we descended through the Tapeats Break we noticed three guys below us making their way down the route too. We continued on.

The Old Grandview Route has the feel of a roller coaster. It's steep and then levels off and then steep again through a chute followed by a long steep and loose descent through a rockfall ending at the river. The route was a joy and easy to follow. We both took extra special care not to knock any rocks loose because of the group below us. We took our time and eventually reached the beach. The three guys were from Flagstaff and we chatted for a bit. We mostly admired this special place along the river. The views were breathtaking even though you can't see far. We didn't mind.

After our break Claire and I made the climb out. Again we took our time and were very careful with our footing. The going was slow but steady. Both of us made it up no problem. This route was such a joy and I'm glad we spent the time to see it through. Afterward we headed about a mile west to a lookout where we took some pics above the river. From there we returned to camp and settled in for the night.

We woke on day three and broke down camp and filtered more water. From there we made the hike back to the rim. We took a break on Horseshoe Mesa and a few more short breaks along the hike up. The top of the trail was snowy with some ice but was not an issue. We topped out and then made the return to Phoenix with a stop at NiMarco's for some Golden BBQ Wings!

This was another memorable trip to the Grand Canyon. The Old Grandview Route is a lot of fun and is definitely worth checking out. It's quite the ride!

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Culture [ checklist ]

[ checklist ] Cairn

Named place

Named place [ checklist ]

[ checklist ] Granite Gorge

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2 archives

Nov 27 2015

clairebear

Photos 188
Triplogs 163

43 female

Joined Oct 26 2011
Tempe, AZ

Northwest, AZ

Backpack		Nov 27 2015
		clairebear • Triplogs 163

Backpack	20.75 Miles	5,800 AEG

Backpack	20.75 Miles	3 Days
	5,800 ft AEG

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A early morning trip to the Grand Canyon BCO on Friday morning resulted in two permits to camp below the rim in the Grand Crevasse. When we arrived at the BCO there was next to nothing available so I was elated with our permits for two nights in the Canyon.

We set off via the Grandview trail just as snow started to fall. The very top of the trail was a bit snow covered already, but nothing too treacherous. We made good time hiking down the Grandview trail and arrived at Horseshoe Mesa where for a bit a moment to checkout what was once Peter Berry's cabin before proceeding down from the Mesa. The final portion of the trail was very steep and covered in loose rocks that required a lot of effort on my part to not fall all over the trail. Finally the trail leveled out and we arrived at Cottonwood Creek where set up camp for the night. After camp was set up we used up the rest of the afternoon to check out the area and follow cottonwood creek. Eventually the creek becomes a narrow slot and we climbed out connecting to the Tonto Trail and back to camp in the late afternoon.

Back at camp we sat around with hot tea and no fire lol. Darkness comes early this time of year and without a fire to keep us warm outside I was settled into the tent with a book and a tent beer as soon as darkness fell.

The next morning I was a big wimp about the cold so I stayed in tent for a bit until I was finally motivated to face the old--- thanks to a warm coffee.^^ Our hiking plan for the day was to set out east along the Tonto and perhaps check out the Old Grandview trail to the river. Along the Tonto it was not very difficult to find the prominent pile of rocks that marks OGV. (Although From the Tonto Trail the land slopes off drastically and gives the impression that its impossible to have a route leading down to the river. This is deceiving and there IS actually a pretty straightforward and easy to follow old route to the river.

After the land levels off from the Tonto the Old Grandview becomes a steep downhill requiring some scrambling until stopping at ridge that juts out toward great views of river on both sides. From the ridge the trail narrows and levels out for a bit until the chute. From the chute until the final push to the bottom the has deteriorated into loose rocks boulders all the way down to the river. Taking very deliberate steps to avoid knocking rocks onto John and the three other hikers below us, I eventually arrived at the Colorado

We stopped for some lunch on the sandy beach and a few photos and chatted briefly with the three guys who also arrived there just a few minutes before we did. It is an impressive spot and I'm glad I was afforded this opportunity to see it ^^^
Going back out was no problem and we were back at the Tonto Trail in the early afternoon. I decided we should explore more along the Tonto trail before settling in back at camp. From a lookout, we had nice views of grapevine rapids, took some more photags and returned back to the tent.

Since I was no longer warmed by hiking it was nice to put on every piece of clothing I had in order to warm up and relax at camp. Another cold night that invited tea and a warm mountain house before retreating into the tent with a book

Day three was another overcast and cold morning. We broke up camp and began our walk out. When I saw the snow covered trail and felt bitterly cold air on my face I knew I was close to the top

Thanks to a memorable trip my weekend went by much too quickly

~The caveat with fun trips--before you know it they are over and then its back to that m-f work nonsense ^^^

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1 archive

Oct 12 2014

Dave1

Routes 29
Photos 1,548
Triplogs 1,802

49 male

Joined Jan 25 2009
Phoenix, AZ

Vishnu Creek, AZ

Backpack		Oct 12 2014
		Dave1 • Triplogs 1,802

Backpack	22.00 Miles	7,000 AEG

Backpack	22.00 Miles	2 Days
	7,000 ft AEG

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Horseshoe Mesa 5,246

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Starting from Grandview Point, I went down to Horseshoe Mesa and then picked up the trail that drops off the Mesa towards Cottonwood Creek. At Cottonwood, I picked up the Tonto Trail and headed west. Roughly halfway between Cottonwood and Grapevine Creeks is a mega-cairn marking the start of the lower Old Grandview Trail. Took the well-carined and easy to follow OGV Trail down to a small beach along the Colorado River. Aired-up my boat, changed into my wetsuit and headed down river about 1/3 mile to Vishnu Creek. The mouth of Vishnu is behind a large pink granite outcropping and requires a difficult maneuver through a strong eddy to reach. For that reason, I aimed for the beach just before the outcropping. Once on the beach, I was able to get into Vishnu Creek by hiking up and over the pink granite.

The River in this section is relatively smooth but there's a strong channel of current (I don't know what it's called, all my maritime knowledge comes from watching reruns of The Love Boat and Gilligan's Island) that runs near the middle. Along the edges, the water swirls around and actually seems to move backwards. I tried to stay out of the channel and worked the sides so I wouldn't get sucked down into Grapevine rapids. Fighting the reverse current was a bit of work but gave me hope for tomorrow's plan.

My walk up Vishnu Creek started off almost immediately by going through some neat narrow sections with plenty of twists and turns. There are several 4-8' pour-overs that have to be climbed or bypassed but all were fairly simple. The first one was the hardest. It's about 6' and there aren't many good hand holds. I threw my pack up and wedged it between the boulders and used the pack to pull myself up. There was no water flowing in the creek and just a few small pools so I didn't have to get wet. The last dry fall is about 25' tall but has a bypass route on creek-right. After the narrows the canyon opens up and you can see Woton's Throne and Vishnu Temple up ahead. It was about 3pm so I decided to turn around here. On the way back I ran into a group of 3 guys who were doing a similar route to mine. They started from Cottonwood Creek and packrafted from there.

Headed back to the river and found a nice campsite right on the end of the pink granite outcrop. Spent a long night (about 12 hours) waiting for morning. I thought some river runners would set up camp across the way at Grapevine Beach as I heard it's a popular spot but I saw no one on the river.

Part of my original plan was on day 2 I would cross back to Grapevine Beach (not actually at Grapevine Creek but up river) directly across from Vishnu and get back to the Tonto Trail via Grapevine Creek. According to Todd Martin's Canyoneering book, one cannot hike up Grapevine from its mouth due to a large pour-over. I would have to climb up the Vishnu Schist above GV Beach and then drop down into GV Creek. He makes this route sound difficult and dangerous so I decided I would try to paddle up river and exit out Old Grandview.

Woke up early and was back to the landing beach by 6am. I saw the other group's not-well-hidden packrafting gear and noticed they all had Sevylor Trailboats. I have this same boat but it is really tiny so I opted to take a larger but almost twice as heavy 2-person boat until I get comfortable enough to use the TB. I also noticed they didn't have any life jackets or wetsuits!

Paddling up river wasn't too bad as long as I stayed at the edge but there was a strong wind coming down canyon that I had to fight. After quite a bit of hard paddling, I made it up to where I was directly across from OGV Beach and tried to make a bee line across. As soon as I got to the current channel I got sucked in and shot back down canyon about 100 yards. So I fought my way to the edge and began working back up. This time I went well above OGV Beach so I could move diagonally to it. Success!

I had a pretty uneventful hike out to Grandview Point. Along the way I ran into Dennis Foster http://www.kaibabjournal.com/Grand_Cany ... n_home.htm. Most of the hikers I passed were interested in why I had paddles sticking out of my pack. Some knew right away what I was doing. If you're going to do any packrafting from a busy trail, plan to answer a lot of questions!

(my uploaded route needed quite a bit of redrawing since the original was a complete mess. It may not be accurate and doesn't include everything)

7 liters total.

Fauna

Fauna [ checklist ]

[ checklist ] Striped Whipsnake

Named place

Named place [ checklist ]

[ checklist ] Grapevine Rapids Vishnu Creek

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3 archives

May 24 2014

toddak

Guides 13
Routes 38
Photos 1,651
Triplogs 577

60 male

Joined Nov 15 2005
Jackson, CA

Northwest, AZ

Canyoneering		May 24 2014
		toddak • Triplogs 577

Canyoneering	15.00 Miles	5,500 AEG

Canyoneering	15.00 Miles	11 Hrs	1.36 mph
	5,500 ft AEG

Canyon Hiking - Non-technical; no rope; easy scrambling; occasional hand use

A - Dry or little water; shallow or avoidable water; no wet/dry suit

II - Normally requires a half day

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Still a usable trickle at the Tonto crossing, probably won't last long. Not much water in the canyon below the Tonto, although earlier in the season and/or after a wetter winter it would likely be flowing more.

The second bypass in particular is long and gnarly, climbing way up above the canyon floor while crossing multiple ridges and loose slopes. The third bypass down to the river is also steep and loose. Fortunately I brought my packraft along and floated down about a half mile to exit on the Old Grandview trail instead of having to return up Cottonwood and reverse the bypasses.

Overall a similar canyon to nearby Hance and Grapevine, but a bit harder to negotiate and somewhat less scenic.

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1 archive

Jan 05 2013

toddak

Guides 13
Routes 38
Photos 1,651
Triplogs 577

60 male

Joined Nov 15 2005
Jackson, CA

Northwest, AZ

Hiking		Jan 05 2013
		toddak • Triplogs 577

Hiking	16.00 Miles	5,000 AEG

Hiking	16.00 Miles	10 Hrs 30 Mns	1.52 mph
	5,000 ft AEG

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Horseshoe Mesa 5,246

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Thanks to Chumley for the inspiration on this one! Old Grandview would make a nice side trip if hiking the Tonto, or maybe a day trip from Cottonwood campground.

Snow on the upper Grandview was still nicely compacted but not icy yet. Returned around the north side of Horseshoe and up between the arms of the mesa.

Named place

Named place [ checklist ]

[ checklist ] Cottonwood Creek

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Dec 03 2012

Dave1

Routes 29
Photos 1,548
Triplogs 1,802

49 male

Joined Jan 25 2009
Phoenix, AZ

Old Hance Trail

Old Hance Trail

Northwest, AZ

Hiking		Dec 03 2012
		Dave1 • Triplogs 1,802

Hiking	16.25 Miles	5,390 AEG

Hiking	16.25 Miles
	5,390 ft AEG

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Horseshoe Mesa 5,246

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I've done most of this a hike before but there were some things I missed and wanted to get back. I originally tried to do this as an event a few weeks ago but had to back-out last minute for a family thing. So here I am again. Some goals for this trip: improve my route down the top part of Ol' Hance, climb up to the entrance of Tse'An Bida Tunnel, explore the lower portion of Hance Creek to Sockdolager Rapids, and hike the upper portion of the Old Grandview Trail. My initial plan was a bit more ambitious than what actually went down.

For this trip I got a ride from my wife to the Old Hance Trailhead, avoiding the long walk from Grandview TH. The trail drops down immediately (don't they all?)and my chosen route kept me pretty much in the middle of the wash this time. There's a spine running in the middle that begins roughly below the Coconino. You need to be on it when you get near the top of the Redwall so that you can move over to the east drainage. I picked up the spine early on and this turned out to be more difficult as its quite brushy. The trail really beat me up good today. At one point I stepped on a small rock sitting on a large flat rock. Of course the small one rolled, I fell backwards and landed with the back of my thigh crashing down on another rock. Charlie horse from hell!

About 2 hours of scrambling and I finally made it to the bed of Hance Creek (approximately 2 miles). Now its time to find the tunnel. On the first trip I spent a ton of time climbing up to several alcoves without any success. With few clues of its location, the only things I knew was that its on the east side and its in the Redwall. There are many alcoves and cave-like holes in the Redwall here and some look impossible to reach. I investigated another dead-end today and paid the price with some nasty brush and cactus encounters. Just past the first spring in Hance, I'm pretty sure I located the tunnel but access looks quite challenging. I still had more to accomplish today and had to be back at Grandview by 4pm to meet my wife, so the tunnel will have to wait until another time.

By the time I got to the Tonto crossing it was already 1pm. I knew I wouldn't have enough time to explore Hance to Sockdolager so this part will also have to wait.

Up to Horseshoe Mesa and up the Grandview to the Coconino Saddle, nothing new to report.

Using the description from Tomasi's book, I picked up the Old Grandview Trail at the bottom of the Toroweap layer. The "trail" is almost non existent so you really need a good imagination for this one. I found very few indications that this was a manufactured trail. It probably sees more hoof than foot traffic nowadays. There are a few sketchy spots where a misstep and a slip will send you plunging over the Coconino cliff, its no wonder they re-routed it. If you are looking to shave some time off of Grandview, this is not the way. It adds much more to the current trail, not to mention the bushwhacking that's necessary. Its still fun to try out the old trails though.

I topped out at OGV TH and followed a faint trail along the rim back to GV TH, arriving at 4:05. My ride was no where to be found. It's now 5pm and I'm starting to worry. Car accident? Flat tire? Did she finally smarten up and leave me? With no cell phone to call her, I decided I'd better start walking back to the village before it gets too cold. Once on 64 I figured I'd try my luck at hitchhiking. The very first car I flagged stopped and picked me up! A nice couple visiting from Chicago. About 2-3 miles into the ride and I spot my car heading towards Grandview! I'm glad she's ok but now I've got to chase her down! The couple was nice enough to drive me back to 64/Grandview Road. I finally get back to the TH and still can't find her. Turns out she went down Grandview to try and meet me coming up Grandview. So one more hike for me on Grandview and we were finally reunited just a short way down.

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Nov 10 1991

pseudalpine

Guides 59
Routes 1,100
Photos 1,191
Triplogs 1,290

male

Joined Jan 01 2023
Arizona