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Flatiron Hike - Superstitions - 270 members in 1478 triplogs have rated this an average 4.6 ( 1 to 5 best )
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Jul 26 2025
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 Guides 3
 Routes 428
 Photos 8,405
 Triplogs 610

54 male
 Joined Apr 13 2011
 Gilbert, AZ
Flatiron Hike - SuperstitionsPhoenix, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
 Hiking avatar Jul 26 2025
ddgrunningTriplogs 610
 Hiking6.55 Miles 3,000 AEG
 Hiking6.55 Miles   3 Hrs   35 Mns   1.83 mph
3,000 ft AEG
 
Partners none no partners
Needed to stay close to home this weekend, but also needed to get outside. Even though I could have chosen something easier, the west-facing approach of Flatiron is appealing for a summer hike since I can do essentially the whole hike in the shade if I get an early start.

I was on the trail at 5 am. Passed two guys on the way up and met a couple coming down when I neared the top. Otherwise, no traffic on the upbound trail, and I had the iron all to myself.

I have a hard time going to Flatiron and not tacking on 5024, so up I went for a bit more solitude and 360 views.

On the way back, I veered off slightly to check out the plane crash memorial. They've added a thank you plaque to the Sheriff and first responders since I was last there.

On the way down, I passed around 10 folks even more crazy than me and getting a later start.

At the Jacob's Crosscut junction, there is a new sign, indicating that day hikers are no longer allowed to take the trail that skirts along the campground on the way to/from the Lost Dutchman parking lot. Instead, they are supposed to take the Crosscut trail.

On balance, the day was "nice" for July. Temps were high 70s at the start. Went through about 2.5 liters. Was home by 9:15 am.
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Mar 30 2025
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 Guides 1
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 Photos 1,231
 Triplogs 198

male
 Joined Mar 14 2015
 Phoenix, AZ
Flatiron Hike - SuperstitionsPhoenix, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
 Hiking avatar Mar 30 2025
astrobrewerTriplogs 198
 Hiking6.32 Miles 2,980 AEG
 Hiking6.32 Miles   5 Hrs   47 Mns   1.35 mph
2,980 ft AEG   1 Hour   6 Mns Break
 
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Perfect day for hiking. Sunny with a pleasant cool breeze. Meet up with a group of friends at the trailhead at 7:30. Lots of people on the trail.

Saw an old guy on the trail. He was 92 it 93. He said this was his 100th time hiking to Flatiron, and that he started hiking Flatiron when he was 82. Damn. I get nervous on some of the steep sections and it's just another hike for this old dude. I hope I can still make it up Flatiron when I'm that age!

To a nice long break on top of Flatiron. That cool breeze felt great. It was hazy and the view was a little disappointing. You could just sl make out South Mountain through the haze, but nothing farther.

There was a very large group at the top that reached the Flatiron ahead of us. Luckily they left well before we started down. There was quite a traffic jam at the very top, and then we were stuck behind a slow group for a way. Eventually we were able to pass and then kept up a good pace after that.

I normally hike alone and enjoy the solitude, but hiking with a group this time was good. Hiking time was similar to the last time I hiked Flatiron alone, but it felt quicker this time. Maybe there conversation distracted me from the chore of Rick hopping for hours and hours.

A good and fun day on the trail.
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Mar 02 2025
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62 male
 Joined Dec 02 2014
 Mesa, AZ
Flatiron Hike - SuperstitionsPhoenix, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
 Hiking avatar Mar 02 2025
adillingTriplogs 405
 Hiking5.85 Miles 2,850 AEG
 Hiking5.85 Miles
2,850 ft AEG
 no routes
1st trip
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It's been a while since I have made the slog up the Siphon Draw to hit the Flatiron. My hiking buddy wanted to hit this one as a way to pay tribute to his recently departed wife. We arrived early and parked at the first parking sections off First Water Road and made our way over to the Siphon Draw along Jacob's Crosscut trail.

The weather was perfect, not cold & not hot. As soon as we made it to the Siphon Draw, we saw the stream of hikers coming from LDSP. The trail is the same as it has been since I first did this one years ago. The slick rock section was the usual steepness. Despite the huffing and puffing, we made it to the top and got our first look at the dreaded chute.

My mind always plays tricks on me by remembering the cool parts of hikes and forgetting the rough bits. I knew this would be an "embrace the suck" hike and it was. We came across a number of speedsters already going down and got passed up by a bunch of youngins' going up. We came across the "Flatiron Jim" and hiked with him for a while. 93 almost 94, he is amazing. I hope I am still alive at 94, let alone able to hike this one.

We made it to the wall and climbed up. A big crowd on the actual Flatiron as we walked along the edges. After some lunch and a bunch of photos, we started heading over to Peak 5024, but my buddy wasn't feeling it. We went over to the plane crash memorial and started down the chute. At my age, with my health issues, going down these steep ones is much worse than going up. My friend had a lot of problems going down the crazy rock hopping, but we made it to the slick rock ok. I think that is my least favorite park of this hike. The top of the Siphon Draw is a steep scree-laden accident waiting to happen. We made it down that section just fine and finally made it to the "trail" part of the trail.

A long, leisurely hike up and down. I am happy to help my friend deal with his grief on this one. A nice day hiking the Supes.
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Mar 01 2025
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 Guides 94
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 Triplogs 2,002

52 male
 Joined Sep 18 2002
 Tempe, AZ
Flatiron Hike - SuperstitionsPhoenix, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
Hiking avatar Mar 01 2025
chumleyTriplogs 2,002
Hiking6.21 Miles 2,983 AEG
Hiking6.21 Miles   4 Hrs      1.72 mph
2,983 ft AEG      23 Mns Break
 
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Had a friend from out of town visiting who wanted to do this one. So we spent Saturday touristing. Temps were borderline tolerable and the wind didn't really kick up til afternoon (But when it did ... oy!)

Hadn't stood on flatiron in 3 years and not on 5024 in 6. These are popular hikes for a reason. It's pretty impressive up there. Fire char was still fresh on 5024 and it was depressingly dry in every direction. Yay 2025.

Stopped by Cat Wagon in AJ on the way home for a bevvy. It's nice that there's a new option for a high-quality tasty beverage out in east methland.
 Meteorology
 Meteorology [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Dust Storm
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I'm not sure what my spirit animal is, but I'm confident it has rabies.
  1 archive
Dec 21 2024
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 Guides 2
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 Triplogs 23

male
 Joined Dec 11 2003
 Phoenix, AZ
Flatiron Hike - SuperstitionsPhoenix, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
Hiking avatar Dec 21 2024
ChapmanTriplogs 23
Hiking6.65 Miles 2,729 AEG
Hiking6.65 Miles   4 Hrs   35 Mns   1.69 mph
2,729 ft AEG      39 Mns Break
 
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This was Zane’s first time up to the flatiron and it has been a few years for me as well. Hit the trail early to avoid the sun as we hiked to the top.
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Dec 01 2024
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male
 Joined Mar 14 2015
 Phoenix, AZ
Superstition Peak 5024 - Siphon DrawPhoenix, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
Hiking avatar Dec 01 2024
astrobrewerTriplogs 198
Hiking6.67 Miles 3,009 AEG
Hiking6.67 Miles   6 Hrs   57 Mns   1.15 mph
3,009 ft AEG   1 Hour   10 Mns Break
 
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After my first hike to the Flatiron I wanted to visit this peak. The description sounded not too bad. I finally got around to it. It's been several years since the last time on this trail and I forgot how tough it is. Whew!

I took it pretty easy on the way up. When I got to the top of steep I saw I got coming down from that peak 5024 trail, so at least I knew how to find the start of the trail. Calling it a trail is definitely an overstatement. Basically head towards the hoodoos and then try to figure it out. Luckily I downloaded the official route to RouteScout. Avoid paths that require steep climb. Avoid paths blocked by cactus. Figure it out. When in doubt the official route was very helpful.

Eventually when I thought I was completely lost I crawled through a rock tunnel and meet a couple of hikers on their way down. They told me I was only a few minutes from the top, and that I was headed in the right direction! Sure enough I soon found my way to the top!

The view was awesome! Unfortunately it was a bit hazy so couldn't see a lot of the distant peaks. But looking down on the Flatiron and Weaver's Needle was cool.

Finding my way back down through the hoodoos was just as hard as on the way up. I had to backtrack a couple of times, but eventually found a passable route. I stopped off at the Floor and rested for a while. Lots of aggressive little squirrels behind for handouts at the edge.

The hike down was much harder than the hike up and I took it slow. A great day of hiking in the Supes!

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Siphon Draw Waterfall Pools to trickle Pools to trickle
Just a trickle.
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Nov 02 2024
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 Routes 257
 Photos 8
 Triplogs 263

54 male
 Joined Feb 19 2015
 Phoenix
Flatiron Hike - SuperstitionsPhoenix, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
 Hiking avatar Nov 02 2024
bjonsonTriplogs 263
 Hiking8.09 Miles 3,156 AEG
 Hiking8.09 Miles   4 Hrs   47 Mns   1.85 mph
3,156 ft AEG      24 Mns Break
 
no photosets
1st trip
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Oct 31 2024
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 Guides 2
 Routes 251
 Photos 4,593
 Triplogs 3,227

male
 Joined Feb 26 2008
 Scottsdale, AZ
Flatiron Hike - SuperstitionsPhoenix, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
 Hiking avatar Oct 31 2024
BobPTriplogs 3,227
 Hiking5.85 Miles 2,850 AEG
 Hiking5.85 Miles
2,850 ft AEG
 no routes
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Hocus Pocus
Turtle drove
A 4wd Focus.
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Always pronounce Egeszsegedre properly......
If you like this triplog you must be a friend of BrunoP
 
Oct 21 2024
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 Guides 2
 Routes 251
 Photos 4,593
 Triplogs 3,227

male
 Joined Feb 26 2008
 Scottsdale, AZ
Flatiron Hike - SuperstitionsPhoenix, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
 Hiking avatar Oct 21 2024
BobPTriplogs 3,227
 Hiking5.85 Miles 2,850 AEG
 Hiking5.85 Miles
2,850 ft AEG
 no routes
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It was a Little River Band kinda day today. I started writing Flatiron triplogs 14 years ago. 5 that year with a couple of doubles. 10 years ago, a few doubles and a paint removal party. In 2015, just once, and this year 4 times. I love the Supes (maybe not as much as Wally). I thought of a time I did the rigdeline at night and invited Joe for Tea in Hog Canyon. It was a great day today, thinking of all the fun hikes and friendships I've made hiking. Climbing the Gatekeeper with JJ. Looking at it and saying no way. Then looking down while people snapped our picture. I thought of Johnr1 as
I passed a memorial bench. I remember doing one of his eulogies( great guy that he was he had four eulogies.... work,climbing,hiking,and family ). Funny how today at times I thought about my handholds and footholds. Instead of just going for it. Age does that I guess. If you read this far, you are a much better person with a longer attention span then me. I'll end this how Denny ends almost every triplog without typing it. PS. Dont be what Blake loves.
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Always pronounce Egeszsegedre properly......
If you like this triplog you must be a friend of BrunoP
  2 archives
Oct 18 2024
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 Guides 3
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 Photos 8,405
 Triplogs 610

54 male
 Joined Apr 13 2011
 Gilbert, AZ
Camp Flatiron, AZ 
Camp Flatiron, AZ
 
Backpack avatar Oct 18 2024
ddgrunningTriplogs 610
Backpack7.00 Miles 2,600 AEG
Backpack7.00 Miles2 Days         
2,600 ft AEG
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1st trip
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In all my hiking in the Supes, I've never overnighted ... until now. Had an evening family event, so we didn't make it to the TH until about 9:45 pm. With the rain from earlier in the day and a near-full moon, the temps and ambiance were perfect. And of course the solitude was complete.

We arrived at the Flatiron shortly after midnight and set up camp in a nice spot a little to the south of the point (so as to be in good position for the sunrise, and to distance a bit from expected traffic on Saturday morning).

We awoke to a nice sunrise and drizzling rain all around (but not on us). Had a lovely breakfast and then the sprinkles began.

We hopped back in the tent and enjoyed a steady rain for about an hour, while we relaxed and got a little more shut eye.

After the rain stopped, we packed up and took the standard route down.

Several folks on the trail, but I'm sure the morning rain discouraged much larger crowds.
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Jul 20 2024
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 Guides 3
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54 male
 Joined Apr 13 2011
 Gilbert, AZ
Flatiron Hike - SuperstitionsPhoenix, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
 Hiking avatar Jul 20 2024
ddgrunningTriplogs 610
 Hiking7.36 Miles 2,730 AEG
 Hiking7.36 Miles   3 Hrs   52 Mns   2.08 mph
2,730 ft AEG      20 Mns Break
 
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I contemplated a less strenuous hike, but with temps scheduled to top 112, I decided that the west-facing (i.e., shaded) ascent up Flatiron would be preferable to an "easier" but more exposed hike.

Got on the trail just shy of 5:40 am. Originally, I didn't intend to go all the way up.

Just before the Siphon Draw bowl, I noticed a group of 5 bighorns on the slope above. I assume they are the same ones I've seen in previous years in the same area.

Partially inspired by the bighorns, at the top of the Siphon Draw bowl, I opted to hang a right and take the relatively undefined route that circles back west towards the lip of the intermediate cliffs. I intended to turn around at that point, but after taking in the view, I decided to continue up to the ridge that leads back to the "nose" of the Flatiron's base, and before I knew it, I was sucked into completing the climb, which skirts the base of the Iron, and then scrambles up steeply to rejoin the trail out to the point.

Took the traditional route down.

I've done this route before, and found it enjoyable again.

Back to my car by 9:30. Finishing temperature 102. I was surprised to see several people on their way up, as I was descending. I wished them all a safe hike!
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Jun 22 2024
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 Guides 3
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54 male
 Joined Apr 13 2011
 Gilbert, AZ
Flatiron Hike - SuperstitionsPhoenix, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
 Hiking avatar Jun 22 2024
ddgrunningTriplogs 610
 Hiking5.46 Miles 2,707 AEG
 Hiking5.46 Miles   3 Hrs   32 Mns   1.68 mph
2,707 ft AEG      17 Mns Break
 
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Needed to stay close to home this weekend, so I decided to hit up an old favorite. I arrived at my usual parking spot just after 5 am. Given the time of year and the hour of the day, I assumed I'd pretty much have the trail to myself. Not so much.

Apparently, I was late, as there were already 6 other cars in the parking area, and when I joined the main trail, I had unwittingly timed it to merge with two other guys heading up.

I pushed on the accelerator a bit to put some distance between us, which worked well. I started to come across my parking lot friends on their return trip a little past the bowl area. Three different small groups.

After they all passed, the solitude was complete to the top. While I was grateful for the cloud cover, the downside was that it was quite muggy--which I think is worse. I regularly hit the Olympic qualifying standard for sweating as it is, but when its muggy, I just keep on sweating without any noticeable reduction in body temperature.

As a result, I literally wrung out my clothes at the top.

On the return trip, I passed the two guys still slowly making their climb, and one more person below the bowl.

Parking area was empty upon my return.

The highlight of the trip were the century plants, which are in full bloom.

I was home by 9:30. Always a good workout and sense of accomplishment.
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Apr 03 2024
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 Guides 75
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46 male
 Joined Sep 08 2006
 
Superstition Peak 5024 - Siphon DrawPhoenix, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
Hiking avatar Apr 03 2024
JimTriplogs 2,334
Hiking8.00 Miles 3,200 AEG
Hiking8.00 Miles
3,200 ft AEG
 
Partners none no partners
Brian drove and I joined him for a 5024/Flatiron hike. Ended up being perfect conditions. Not too crowded, perfect temperatures, light breezes, and sunny.

Lots of flowing water in the siphon draw area. Flowers here are winding down for the season in most places. The Chuparosa in some of the washes on the last bit of #58 seemed to be an exception.

Ended up being a gorgeous day in the western Superstitions and from what I could see, the valley as well. Excellent air quality, overall. The Catalinas and Pinalenos were popping with a fresh coat of late snow, and even the Ritas were visible, although not as easy to see. The Bradshaws and Estrellas were also looking relatively crisp. Pine Mountain on the Verde Rim was clear, as were the Mazatzals with the suicide ridge looking easy from 5024. 5057 and the ridgeline were enjoyed from 5024, which in my opinion is the best way to enjoy them as the views are best from the west.
 Fauna
 Fauna [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Red-tailed Hawk
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Moderate
Flowers seem to be winding down here for the season in most places. The Chuparosa in some of the washes on the last bit of #58 seemed to be an exception.

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Siphon Draw Waterfall Light flow Light flow
Flowing, no real idea about rate, so I went with low. Could be heavy, actually.
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  1 archive
Mar 30 2024
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 Guides 3
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 Triplogs 610

54 male
 Joined Apr 13 2011
 Gilbert, AZ
Flatiron via Spirit Canyon, AZ 
Flatiron via Spirit Canyon, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Mar 30 2024
ddgrunningTriplogs 610
Hiking13.62 Miles 3,362 AEG
Hiking13.62 Miles   7 Hrs   10 Mns   2.16 mph
3,362 ft AEG      51 Mns Break
 
1st trip
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Hit up an old favorite via a new route.

Originally, the plan was just to head up Spirit Canyon (never been before) to check out some petroglyphs.

But then I ventured up further to the cool arch, which looks like it’s on its last legs. Then I scrambled up further, and before I knew it, I decided I’d rather keep climbing up to Flatiron and descend Siphon Draw than try to go back down what I had climbed up so far. 😄

I started from the Broadway TH. That section up to the junction with Jacob’s Crosscut has got to be one of the most miserable pieces of flat trail around for the feet—totally covered in tennis to softball sized rocks that give your feet and ankles no rest whatsoever. Thankfully, the views help compensate—including one of the best saguaro forest stands close to the Valley.

The unmarked turn up to Spirit was indistinct but visible if you’re looking for it.

From that point, there is no trail, but if your route finding skills are tuned, a path of least resistance is not too difficult to follow, with minimal bushwhacking.

I dropped a pin at the falls. No running water, but still some pools from the recent rain. I’d like to come back when the water is running.

The falls are bypassed on the left, but soon the route crosses back to the right and after climbing up some slick rock cascades gets more brushy and choose-your-own adventury, drawing you up to the cool, and unexpected arch—which was the highlight of the hike for me.

After that, it’s pretty much a full-on scramble. Some exposure, but nothing crazy. As noted above though, I realized that climbing up was much easier than climbing back down would be.

At that point, I contemplated continuing up to the base of the the Flatiron, from which point I was familiar with the rest of the route.

I decided to go for it, and was glad I did. Shortly before reaching the base of the Flatiron, I decided to take advantage of some slick rock to traverse left and closer to the point of the Flatiron (thus avoiding some more brushy traversing). Near the base, i began to hear the chattering of hikers far above.

Once I reached the crossover that allowed viewing down siphon draw, I knew I was home free. There was still some scrambling to be done, but it was familiar.

The flatiron was as busy as I’ve seen it. But I went up to the peak and was pleased to see that the masses generally don’t feel like expending the marginal additional energy. Only two other people were there.

The descent was the expected conga line, but way easier that going back down spirit canyon.

Jacob’s crosscut was actually more enjoyable than I thought it would be, with great views of the mountains. Lots of solitude there, too.
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  1 archive
Feb 20 2024
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male
 Joined Feb 26 2008
 Scottsdale, AZ
Flatiron Hike - SuperstitionsPhoenix, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
 Hiking avatar Feb 20 2024
BobPTriplogs 3,227
 Hiking5.85 Miles 2,850 AEG
 Hiking5.85 Miles
2,850 ft AEG
 no routes
Linked   none no linked trail guides
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_____________________
https://www.seeitourway.org
Always pronounce Egeszsegedre properly......
If you like this triplog you must be a friend of BrunoP
 
Feb 03 2024
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 Guides 3
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 Photos 8,405
 Triplogs 610

54 male
 Joined Apr 13 2011
 Gilbert, AZ
Superstition RidgelinePhoenix, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
Hiking avatar Feb 03 2024
ddgrunningTriplogs 610
Hiking12.03 Miles 4,269 AEG
Hiking12.03 Miles   7 Hrs   48 Mns   1.76 mph
4,269 ft AEG      58 Mns Break
 
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Set up a shuttle from Hieroglyphics TH, and then circled over to start the hike from Siphon Draw.

Hit the trail at 6:45. Seemed like the trail and route had been altered/eroded quite a bit from the recent rains.

On the traverse, clouds came and went, providing a variety of different looks/perspectives. Layers were helpful, as the temps fluctuated with the cloud cover and occasional light breeze.

Upon reaching the Hiero turn off, we decided to press on and tag 5057 before circling back. As we approached, the peak was covered in clouds. But we timed it well and enjoyed clear views when we topped out.

Some nice water still running through Hiero.

Another great day in the Supes.
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  1 archive
Jan 31 2024
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 Guides 2
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male
 Joined Feb 26 2008
 Scottsdale, AZ
Flatiron Hike - SuperstitionsPhoenix, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
 Hiking avatar Jan 31 2024
BobPTriplogs 3,227
 Hiking5.85 Miles 2,850 AEG
 Hiking5.85 Miles
2,850 ft AEG
 no routes
Linked   none no linked trail guides
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Much easier today without ice and snow.
_____________________
https://www.seeitourway.org
Always pronounce Egeszsegedre properly......
If you like this triplog you must be a friend of BrunoP
 
Jan 20 2024
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 Routes 256
 Photos 1,076
 Triplogs 246

68 male
 Joined Feb 10 2008
 Kent,wa
Flatiron Hike - SuperstitionsPhoenix, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
 Hiking avatar Jan 20 2024
fdv75Triplogs 246
 Hiking8.53 Miles 3,449 AEG
 Hiking8.53 Miles   6 Hrs   56 Mns   1.62 mph
3,449 ft AEG   1 Hour   40 Mns Break
 
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Up the normal Siphon Draw trail. Down the steep and rugged Canyon of Waterfalls route.
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  2 archives
Jan 10 2024
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male
 Joined Feb 26 2008
 Scottsdale, AZ
Flatiron Hike - SuperstitionsPhoenix, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
 Hiking avatar Jan 10 2024
BobPTriplogs 3,227
 Hiking5.85 Miles 2,850 AEG
 Hiking5.85 Miles
2,850 ft AEG
 no routes
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I was on my way to the bingo parlor and missed the turn and ended up at Lost Dutchman TH. Yesterday, I saw a challenge from Black Mountain and went for it. I bought an annual pass and headed out at the crack of 11am. It was like I never did this hike, although I probably did it a dozen or so times and a few doubles. I got off trail for awhile but figured it out after about 15 mins. My time was 3 hrs slower than my fastest rt. :) . Fun time but not as fun as our haz Feb 2010 Flatiron.

[ youtube video ]
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Always pronounce Egeszsegedre properly......
If you like this triplog you must be a friend of BrunoP
 
Jan 05 2024
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 Guides 112
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45 female
 Joined Dec 24 2007
 Ahwatukee, AZ
Flatiron Hike - SuperstitionsPhoenix, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
 Hiking avatar Jan 05 2024
LindaAnnTriplogs 2,635
 Hiking6.85 Miles 3,033 AEG
 Hiking6.85 Miles   4 Hrs   40 Mns   1.60 mph
3,033 ft AEG      23 Mns Break
 
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danielac
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Finally got out for Daniela’s birthday hike—more than five weeks late. Headed up to Flatiron first, then over to 5024. Cut it pretty close on time, we knew we had to be done by 1330 to get back in time for Daniela to get her youngest daughter from school, we finished at 1331. So no children were abandoned today, but just barely. Saw a fair amount of other hikers, but it is Friday. Still better than a weekend. Gorgeous weather today, cool and mostly cloudy. Best part (besides the hike) was I wore a teal/blue shirt and leggings, and found a brand new pair of teal Salomons in my closet, which had been in there a couple of years. Amazing match on the outfit 😂
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Stop crying and just go do the hike.
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average hiking speed 1.71 mph
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WARNING! Hiking and outdoor related sports can be dangerous. Be responsible and prepare for the trip. Study the area you are entering and plan accordingly. Dress for the current and unexpected weather changes. Take plenty of water. Never go alone. Make an itinerary with your plan(s), route(s), destination(s) and expected return time. Give your itinerary to trusted family and/or friends.

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