Any ideas / requests for scouting out canyon between copper & dupont near malicious gap [updated water for area q's]?

[eru]

This came up in comments last spring - we enjoyed malicious gap and copper canyon nearby and are thinking of packing in some water and establishing a basecamp to wander around and check it out, we have a couple days off in a week or so.

I know a few people have been eyeing this area, so anyone has requests or some research to share that'd be great. I'll be taking photos & recording route on my phone and will post up a guide after. Any suggested names for the area, or should I take a crack at it depending on what's there.

[nonot]

I am under the impression that early settlers got some type of monetary incentive from the territorial government (later state government) from prospecting. The idea seems to have been that that it was the easy way to find minerals valuable to the AZ economy suitable for major mining operations to move in. As I understand it virtually all 1840 (guess?)-1940 (guess?) homesteads had prospects they'd pick at for a few times a year to satisfy the incentive requirement, as shown near Dupont cabin within your circled area, but don't expect them to amount to much. But that old mining road (not shown on your map) probably makes for the easiest hiking access into the middle of this area. Haven't uncovered the name of the creek, maybe unnamed, perhaps it could be the minor east branch of Greenback Creek.

Good luck and hope to see the new guide!

[Nighthiker]

Some recorded cultural resource sites in the area that were recorded in the 1930's. My few visits I did not note much mining activity. I think the Greenback area was used by troops from Camp Reno to access higher up in the Sierra Anchas.

[Grasshopper]

@eru We discussed this other canyon to explore (outlined in your attached map) in Feb'21.. see my tag note comments on your [ photo ]
I think you should just go do it and let us know what it's all about This seldom visited canyon might end up being another good one for your second official HAZ- Hike Guide.

[eru]

@nonot - thanks, I'll pull up some historical maps and see if I can get that old mining road. USGS maps are my default as they tend to have the most terrain detail, which I value over recent trails etc. It'll be interesting to see how developed the prospects are if they're readily accessible from the bottom.

update: The road you're talking about shows up on modern OSM based maps, and approaches from Dupont cabin to the prospects marked on USGS. It shows up in the 1960-1980 USGS maps (I hate the vegetation shading from that era), but not the modern ones. 1900 maps show a trail that cuts directly up a ridge which is largely distinct from the jeep road there today.

We're just in a subaru crosstrek, which is AWD and has higher clearance than a sedan, but doesn't have the clearance my RWD van does. I was thinking of just going up from the bottom of the canyon vs coming in from dupont cabin (we can make it to one of the early flat areas to park along 236A if it hasn't changed much since this spring).

@nighthiker - is there an online resource where I can check out the cultural sites?

@grasshopper - yeah that is where we were talking about it. I was just curious since you mentioned you'd done some research on the area. Judging by the terrain in the area around it I'm not expecting anything too terrible navigation wise. The "requests" is probably more relevant than advice if someone had a POI they were interested in. There's a hike from last spring in the vermillion cliffs I could add a guide for at some time as well.

[Grasshopper]

I was just curious since you mentioned you'd done some research on the area.

I did not do any historical research on the area but know that it was always a big ranching area. The historic [ Conway Ranch ] is in this area.

I think I still do have the Gps Planning Route buried somewhere within my many HAZ- Route Cloud hike plan listings. I'll try to find it and HAZ-PM you the link for your future planning.

[eru]

@Grasshopper

Judging by satellite photos it won't quite have the majestic walls of the north copper canyon, but should be easier terrain. The simplest way seems to be to follow 236 until you hit the drainage and then follow it up, hopping out to the north if necessary. How far up 236 do you think a highish clearance AWD sedan would get? There's some pullouts near that spot (orange), but the wash (red) the road crosses early seems like it'd be a poor idea without a proper 4WD vehicle. Could always scout on foot from the junction.

We should be able get three and a half days up there - I'm not sure about water sources (salome creek?), but it seems like we could backpack up the mystery canyon, basecamp around dupont cabin, and do dayhike excursions to the west ala [ Dupont Canyon ] and [ Dupont Rim ] . Would be some heavy packs up there with that much water though.

[eru]

In general, anythoughts on water sources in the area? I'm trying to figure out whether we'll pack some water up 236A and set up a basecamp to do some dayhikes, or stick with the lower area around malicious & copper canyons exploring some a bit further south.

It seems like Salome creek should be flowing judging by a recent trip report @ [ Hell's Hole Trail #284 - Salome Wilderness ]

Any idea about Workman?

Or the Duponte Spring mentioned @ [ photoset ]

[nonot]

Workman is spring fed. It can slow to not much more than a trickle but I don't think it ever stops. Salome can similarly slow to a trickle, and get pretty swampy at times during the year. Rain will boost the flows for perhaps a few weeks after each rain. Not sure what either of those places have to do with your base camp plan, as they are very far removed and wouldn't be worth the effort (or gas) to shuttle to/from.

Since your plan is to drive in and setup base camp, taking water is easy. Just fill up a few water jugs and throw them in the back of your vehicle.

[Grasshopper]

Not sure what either of those places have to do with your base camp plan, as they are very far removed and wouldn't be worth the effort (or gas) to shuttle to/from.

Exactly my thoughts..or to hike to/from without having a good 4WD Vehicle to begin hiking from the Dupont Cabin area.

[eru]

The water sources are for potential other trips in the area. I've been intrigued by [ photoset ] but it's not something I'd want to attempt from where I could reach with our current vehicle or commit to backpacking into given unknowns. It's only ~1700ft of gain over 4mi to hike up 236A to the cabin, which isn't bad to carry a heavy pack. I have a 10L MSR drom and many various ~2L bottles/bladders etc laying around.

We're used to doing 10+ day trips with a lot of rugged off-trail, but that's in areas with more regular water sources where we usually don't have to carry more than 2L each.

Torn between trying to set up a basecamp around DuPont spring (or the dupont/salome junction after filling my 10L drom at the spring) to explore downstream as a dayhike and get a feel for the area, or just setting up camp around 236 and do various dayhikes. Having done copper & malicious gap earlier this year I don't really need to repeat them so soon, and our car camping gear is the same as our backpacking gear so there's not a ton of extra comfort aside from having an icechest for nicer food. I'll probably be around in late jan again with my sprinter which will make just hanging out at 236 and dayhiking from there more pleasant if the tonto creek crossing is dry/low like last year.

So far I've found this region the most interesting area near phoenix, though I only have superstition wilderness and payson to compare it to... I haven't gotten around to checking out 288 yet.

[Grasshopper]

I've been intrigued by [ photoset ] but it's not something I'd want to attempt from where I could reach with our current vehicle or commit to backpacking into given unknowns. It's only ~1700ft of gain over 4mi to hike up 236A to the cabin, which isn't bad to carry a heavy pack.

Having 4WD Vehicles for many years now, I never would have considered hiking this FR236 4 mile one way +1700ft 4WD road when I could drive it to start hiking sooner, but you make a good point and if your timing it right, you guys could probably hitch a ride up and maybe back down too! HAZ-ssk44's Dupont Canyon [ photoset ] and Hike Guide to reach this non-official but perennial Dupont Canyon Spring area is an easy out and back 3.25 miles R/T hike on an ATV two track from the Dupont Cabin Park/TH Start.

I just added this [ Dupont Spring - Copper Mtn Quad ] to our HAZ-Named place label database with estimated Gps Coordinates noted at
33.891048
-111.066943

[eru]

Yeah it’s not a choice someone would make if they could drive up there heh, I was trying to see if I could make it work in a way that felt reasonable and also gave us safe exits etc dependent on conditions.

Anyways - my partner didn’t feel comfortable with the Tonto Creek ford outside Punkin in her subie after watching a minivan lurch through it and hit their undercarriage on uneven terrain, so it’s all research for the future. The gauge level was way below normal for this time of year and I remembered it being wide so assumed it’d be ok (and it might be, but hey it’s not my vehicle heh).

[nonot]

Exploring the upper Salome Gorge has been on my todo list for a decade, but due to difficulty and access problems, will likely stay there. If you plan is the scramble/bushwhack down from Dupont to the canyon you will find water, but it is a hefty trip. The area is more easily accessed from the east, via Hell Hole trail, which would be a vehicle friendly way to do it since that trailhead is right on 288.

[eru]

We ended up heading up 288 - after some frantic research we wandered around some of the 4WD roads around the rim of parker canyon & dipped into conner canyon the first day, did a loop of mcfadden horse mountain + elephant rock the second, then did a lazy hike up to the saddle on parker creek 160.

I was eyeing the hell hole trail, but it seems like it might be technical to drop to salome creek from there once the social trail past the camps peters out. I was toying on trying to XC to the triangularish mesa overlooking both salome and workman, but didn't feel up to it energywise after the loop saturday. I really do like the Sierra Anche.

[nonot]

I believe that from the campspot at end of hellhole trail, it is well documented that there is a nontechnical, though perhaps scary for some, scramble around a 30-40 ft cliff, as the major difficulty in reaching Salome creek. Having never done it myself, I cannot attest to its exact difficulty.

You can browse the triplogs here:
[ Salome Creek - Upper Loop ]

[RedRoxx44]

Some of the obstacles in Park canyon can be walked around if you have a high tol for steep slippery slopes and brush, and a ton of rock hopping. There is a better route in and I've been into that area of upper Salome multiple times over the years. I have one small segment yet to complete; hopefully I don't get too old to do so because it will be rough. It is better if you have a well set up 4wd vehicle.

[Grasshopper]

The area is more easily accessed from the east, via Hell Hole trail, which would be a vehicle friendly way to do it since that trailhead is right on 288.

nonot forgot to mention that you must enjoy being very wet by dropping into Salome Creek Canyon via the Hell Hole Trail and Workmans Creek Canyon.. Here is what's very close to that intersection 12 months/yr--> [ photo ] & [ photo ]

I really do like the Sierra Anche (Ancha)

You think you do huh?!

[Grasshopper]

I believe that from the campspot at end of hellhole trail, it is well documented that there is a nontechnical, though perhaps scary for some, scramble around a 30-40 ft cliff, as the major difficulty in reaching Salome creek. Having never done it myself, I cannot attest to its exact difficulty.

You can browse the triplogs here:
[ Salome Creek - Upper Loop ]

I don't think that anyone on HAZ has bushwhacked the whole distance via that route and posted about it. Before I became a member of HAZ, on my first visit to Hellhole Trail end at the campsite area, topohiker (Ken) and I tried this bushwhack route to reach the X. After we finally almost lost his Magellan GPSr in one of the really nasty bushwhack areas closer to the X , we called it quits and headed back to the Park/TH Start.
Edit: I guess I was a HAZ member back then: [ triplog ]

[eru]

I had skimmed the TR’s and most people make it to the falls where the social trail to the S of workman cliffs out. There have been people that climbed up the falls with rope, and mentions of the loose/bushy area to the side being theoretically doable, but didn’t seem promising. I was thinking of following Salome creek N a bit to where it flattens out a bit vs trying to cross at the confluence where it’s more slot/gorge. Ended up just thinking I’d go down duponte at some time in the future.

If I lived in the SW I’d definitely have a 4WD and canyoneering gear, but visiting occasionally I’m making do. :p