Ok This may get tempers going!! - Fossil Creek Management

[backcountrybob]

I just went to Fossil creek first time this year<The Place is Trashed,Diappers Glass,Cans Etc<we picked it up for Hour,Then bunch of Gun Carrying{Rifles } arrived.I think it is Time to close Fossil creek for at least a couple of Years.Give Nature chance to Heal.The publicity is the Problem too many now know about It.
SENATOR Mc Cain You got it Wilderness designation, MAYBE as its almost your back yard you can help Save it from so much Love.

[big_load]

Permits would be a pain, but far better than total closure.

[PaleoRob]

if you want the heavens heard, better get a ladder, shortie.

(j/k rob, you know i love you. and im short too.)

That's why I said "shouting to" not "from". ;) I think it'll take more than a ladder to lift me up that high!

[Jeffshadows]

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[te_wa]

my outlook on using less to acheive the same results. wasting little, conservation, etc... one can absolutely have an ultralight lifestyle in everything you do.

i was thinking on the subject of recycling, just earlier. there's this "save the planet" mindset given to us by people in the business of making money from your recycling. Not that its a bad idea, its just exploited like other things for a profit. it actually takes almost as much energy to recycle an aluminum can as it does to mine and make a new one out of ore. Well, instead of recycling aluminum or plastic i just use the same tupperware cup ive had for a decade whenever I want a glass of water. I'll have to look, but i remember reading about how 225,000 plastic water bottles go in land fills in the USA every day! but then again, if you recycle plastic water bottles it takes tremendous energy waste just to do that too! so, i sit back and watch, with my plastic cup.
another example is the craze/hype for stopping breast cancer. i mean, national breast cancer month, ribbons on all the cars, banners everywhere, fundraisers, marches, hikes and it just never ends. the problem is that breast cancer is only #4 on the list of cancers women get - first place goes to Lung Cancer (and its um... deadly) - but there is a huge lack of funding for the most common and most dangerous of cancers, regarding women. and then there's heart disease. kills more women than anything else. where's the funding for these things? im at a loss explaining why theres a craze for breasts, i mean theyre nice and all. But millions of gals around the world would benefit from something like the number one risk to womens' health getting just a little more exposure. Profit driven hype? find out for yourself. it is what it is.

its lack of exposure to backcountry endevours that is possibly the reason why our national lands are being restricted, taxed, fined, sold to foreign investors (or soon to be, you'll see) Nobody listens to the minority, we dont have the lobby or the finances to fight the developers, land grabbers, bankers, tycoons whatever you choose to call 'them'. Too bad, IMO, the only exposure to the outdoors is given us by gear companies, and retailers, you know- you see the catalog showing all the smiling fit people running a trail or camping with the BFF at their side but the hidden message is "you too can enjoy the backcountry, but first you'll have to buy this $225 Marmot Jacket and then youll have to buy another one next year, when it changes colors"
But one thing we can do (for free) is pick up trash and clear a trail. Dont close a forest because its got diapers. get in there and pick them up ;)

[chumley]

Nice rant. Did you lose an acorn or something?
Seriously though I agree with most all you have to say there. To your conservation points I'll add how often I see people run their dishwasher every day even if its not full. Same goes for washing clothes that either aren't dirty or there aren't enough to make a full load. Both waste water and electricity/heat. In huge quantities repeatedly. Funny thing is the people who do it usually drive a Prius and preach to me about owning a truck.

For the record, I personally enjoy healthy breasts.

[te_wa]

didnt lose a nut, squished one between my counter and the dishwasher
that rant had absolutely nothing to do with nothing, but i just needed typing practice. yep, thats it.

[Jeffshadows]

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[backcountrybob]

In starting this Post it was and is my intent to find solutions,I see anger good,I get angry and tired trying to deal with the thoughtless destruction of wild places,It is symptom of the arrogance of the human animal to think only of what they want.Ultra light life styles are great.but solutions thru education seem to work only in the short term .There is a irony here.the folk who foul Fossil creek will get to drink from this water .

[joebartels]

In finding a solution it would be helpful to know what cause the dramatic increase recently.

[Jeffshadows]

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[big_load]

AZ Highways has a TV show? That would be interesting.

Was there any TV or newspaper publicity on this trail when the dam work was finished?

[backcountrybob]

Fossil Creek has been in most news papers a couple of time in the last year plus AZ highways,and a few free newspapers .Its a case of to much too quick ,I used to go to the canyon near Mayer but it too got found .

[big_load]

It's not as if it were a secret until just now. It's been popular for as long as I can remember, which is about 15 years, and I knew people then who wouldn't go there because of the crowds. There probably isn't an AZ hiking book published in the last 20 years that doesn't have it.

[dysfunction]

Fossil Creek is in AZ Highways at least once every 5 years alone it seems. It's never exactly been a secret.

[backcountrybob]

numbers of people living in Az exponentially greater in 25 years I have lived here!! If each of those who go tell three others etc.

[te_wa]

what i dont get is this... when you leave the valley and drive to Strawberry you can pass up to 14,338 swimming pools. then you still have to hike down into an unattractive canyon along a hot, dirty path. staring at trash, diapers, tires, lawn chairs, coolers and whatnot.
so why bother? its just a swimming hole!
to be fair, singling out fossil springs would make me pretend Ellison Creek, The Big Dipper, Hutch's Pool, Seven Falls, Waterwheel, Tonto Narrows, etc.. were any better. they all suffer the same messy visitors.
i can hear it now "man, these beer cans are too heavy now that they're empty, better chuck 'em in that creek"

[big_load]

so why bother? its just a swimming hole!

It seems like for most AZ folks, there's no such thing as just a swimming hole.

[writelots]

I have to say that Hutch's is no where near as messy as Fossil Creek - but it's hotter and harder to get to (that really is key). Seven Falls, too. Neither one provides the kind of lush camping opportunities you find on the rim - they're just pools of water out in the middle of the hot desert - fun for a quick trip, but not for a long stay.

Besides, they're near Tucson, which is widely known to be the superior metro area to be close to if you're a wilderness area in jeapordy. Not that we're perfect, mind you, there are just fewer of us.

Well, we're more perfect too. Why not admit it while we're fanning tempers.

[te_wa]

well, you also have some great mexican food. and nicer people. and cuter girls. but then, all of your trails go straight up and every time i hike them i almost die

you could also say that fossil springs is a beautiful oasis i suppose, but my neighbors $60,000 pool could give it a run for its money, and no rabid skunks, either.

[dysfunction]

we like those trails that go straight up!

there were too many people at both Hutches and seven falls last time I was there... but being a misanthrope gets me nowhere in a growing area