Ok This may get tempers going!! - Fossil Creek Management

[backcountrybob]

I just went to Fossil creek first time this year<The Place is Trashed,Diappers Glass,Cans Etc<we picked it up for Hour,Then bunch of Gun Carrying{Rifles } arrived.I think it is Time to close Fossil creek for at least a couple of Years.Give Nature chance to Heal.The publicity is the Problem too many now know about It.
SENATOR Mc Cain You got it Wilderness designation, MAYBE as its almost your back yard you can help Save it from so much Love.

[base871]

That sucks to hear, as this place has been going downhill for a few years now. I was there 3 months ago, and as it wasnt in bad shape then, i can only imagine how it is now with the warmewr temps. Im taking some people there tomorrow, sad for them to have to see it in that state. I'm with you on closing it down for a few years, insalling a permit system, or both. But in reality, there is no one to enforce any of this. People will go no matter what. I was kinda hoping the riffraff would stay away now that you cant jump off the dam anymore, but i guess not.

[joebartels]

Hobblewash, it's been trashed off and on for DECADES! It is unfortunate but it isn't new by any means. Personally I'm not for closing or permits, I'd rather see access extended to a good ten miles. There was mention in another thread with APS no longer needing to service out there that they would no longer maintain the road. They need to close that friggen road and the access roads to the Mail Trail too IMO.

[backcountrybob]

I have been going there for 25 yrs it is far worse,I think that people generally are bad news on masse to any spot.Fee and permit might help as then theres $ for clean up

[Jeffshadows]

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[joebartels]

In response to backcountrybob:
That's sad. What do you think is the reasoning? Lack of APS monitoring now or perhaps the extra cool first two weeks of June this year?

In response to Jeff MacE:
Looks like the creek may be the boundary?
http://hikearizona.com/location_g.php?L ... G=1130,538

[fotogirl53]

As much as I hate more government interference, something has to be done. The area is only going to get more popular. A pass system, like in the Sedona area, might be the way to go so that $$ are involved for enforcement, trash hauling, etc. Limiting parking will make a big difference, too. The easy access parking should be limited to those with handicapped permits. Anyone else should have to hike in.

[backcountrybob]

Fossil Creek is designated Wild and scenic ,There is also designation of Wilderness.

[big_load]

Fossil Creek is designated Wild and scenic

It's funny that Fossil Creek is way more trashed than the Musconnetcong River in NJ, which recently won Wild and Scenic designation. Anyway, I wouldn't mind seeing further restrictions. I agree that lack of enforcement only increases disregard for regulations there and elsewhere, so restrictions must include adequate enforcement.

[backcountrybob]

I will be sending Letters to Sen McCain and the TV stations ,Maybe enough publicity about the trashing and general over use will get something to happen.

[Jeffshadows]

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[backcountrybob]

They set them against a rock then wandered off to go swim ,there was nobody watching them and there were many youngsters around. I can see taking a side arm but There is not a need for a combat rifle .

[te_wa]

if they were indeed firing these rifles within a designated wilderness, that is illegal except when hunting game, in season. Plinking and target practice is a no-no in Wilderness. In some wilderness areas, only rifles and shotguns are allowed. Sidearms and pistols are illegal, fired or not. I think, (not sure yet) that these rifles under AZ law would have to be unloaded and empty chambers. Unless, like i said, under use by a licensed hunter, in season.
so, what kind of riles were they? (i mean, without prejudice, they could have been paintball guns or bb guns, ya know?)

[Al_HikesAZ]

without prejudice, they could have been paintball guns or bb guns, ya know?)

I agree 100% with Te-wa. I would only add that they could have been Airsoft guns. My son and his friends are big into airsoft. It's paintball without the paint. Some of their airsoft guns are AK47 and M16 replicas. They shoot a little wad using compressed air.

[te_wa]

and,, those airsoft guns are amazingly realistic. so much so, that if aimed at the wrong person (a law officer) you may find yourself shot dead, with a quickness.

[Jeffshadows]

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[te_wa]

I'm sorry, but this information is incorrect. From the Forest Service:

much of what i said may be incorrect, as the info was possibly taken from wilderness act of 1964, and each and every wilderness area may differ on exact terms and conditions. But keep in mind that the US Forest Service only includes a measly 18% of National Wilderness land.
the bulk of Wilderness falls under National Park Service jurisprudence. (56%)
SO, even if you can carry loaded guns anywhere you dang well please (which should be the case) you cannot.
I dont think Fossil Springs is any place to be carrying anyway, because it would take some extreme caution to discharge anywhere that is not in the vicinity or direction of people.

i said: "In some wilderness areas, only rifles and shotguns are allowed. Sidearms and pistols are illegal, fired or not."
that is fact. some wilderness areas does not mean ALL.

[Jeffshadows]

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[Jeffshadows]

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[te_wa]

yeah, Jeff. Im all for carrying, and i understand and fully approve of our 4th amendment to the bill of rights, and fully understand why we were given that right. this is unimportant to most and pro'lly unrelated to the topic here.. but fwiw, i like guns, ive just outgrown them.
so, back to fossil springs. what i said earlier is a loosly-based reference to gun laws in wilderness, but like you said you (we) dont know if it is specific to that area. Only the north side of the creek is Coconino if im not mistaken, the south side of the creek is Tonto. Funny how you can build a fire 20' from a "no fire zone" right?!
so carry guns in the Fossil Creek wilderness? probably legal. necessary? who can say?
enjoy the rest of your day. I gotta go polish my pistol...