Trans Supes hike II April 25-27 FIRM DATES

[te_wa]

the trans Supes hike last november was a great success! everyone attended and completed the 47 mile trek in great spirits.
carrying on the *new* tradition of the great annual Trans Supes hikes, this one is going to shift gears a little and begin in Spring this year. We will be travelling in a large loop starting and ending at Miles trailhead- we're looking at 11-12 miles per day over some fairly rough terrain. Leaving for the hike on Friday morning and returning by Sunday evening. I suggest experienced hikers only sign up. Lets get this ball rolling!

[tonyp]

Ok - I'm In. I have a Buick Sedan - as far as that goes...

Tony

[te_wa]

so far, the group is Wally, Steve, Tony and Mike (me)
meet in Mesa (Southern at Higley, basically) at Steve's house at 7am- Friday, April 25th.
we'll drive in my truck to the Miles Trailhead for this 3 day, 37 mile loop.

[tonyp]

Well then, I guess my Buick goes to Steve's house. (AKA - by process of elimination - nonot - right?)
What sort of water sources are we looking at?
The reason I ask is that I don't normally carry a filter system. I carry tablets for when I can't boil the water, which works well for me as long as the water's running somehow.
If we're sucking moisture from puddles, though, tablets don't help with mud & slime.

Tony

[te_wa]

look at my pack list. ;-)
i dont use a filter either so i have to be selective on water sources.

[fairweather8588]

5lbs? What happened to 3lbs? Mike, I'm disgusted at you!

[te_wa]

a small ground sheet with a 7 oz tarp was replaced (to my greater comfort) by a 42oz hammock system. this one has full bug netting and a nice cat cut rainfly. I dont see why the hammock cannot be used all year, with the underquilt and pad combined I can sleep down to about 20°

[fairweather8588]

When's the underquilt deemed not needed by temperatures? 40, 50?

[Desertroux]

I am going down to the mid 40's next weekend here in VA with no underquilt. I will be using a closed foam pad (z rest). I should be fine.

[te_wa]

When's the underquilt deemed not needed?

well since you asked... ;-)
I can use the GG thinlight (1/4") to low 40's
the GG nightlight goes a little beyond that, say 37-38
the hudson river picks up where those leave off- but the whole idea of a hammock is unobstructed comfort, which is reduced with a CCF pad. that is where the quilt alone is the best option, but theres a 21oz weight penalty. (same as a Prolite 3 on the ground, so not really a penalty)
I wouldnt hesitate to combine the UQ with the ccf thinlight down to the 20's. surprisingly, the highest heat loss area is under you, and to optimize a hammock's insulating abilities you have to first address the issue of drafts. a good sized tarp that can be drawn down close to the sides of the shelter will add 10° to your system.
one of the, if not the main reason(s) for my "ground to hammock" transition was the comparison of many typical ultralight shelter systems.
if a person was to use a
TarpTent Rainbow, 33 oz
Prolite 3, 21oz
WM Highlite, 16oz
a pillow of some sort, 2-8 oz
and a tyvek ground sheet, 4oz

they could easily justify using

Claytor Mosquito hammock, 33 oz
maccat micro tarp, 7oz
guyline kit, 2oz
Hudson River underquilt, 19oz
my homemade 25° down quilt, 13oz
no pillow, no tyvek.
very close call, but the comfort of a hammock is like nothing you ever camped in. Provided you dont expect an all out blizzard, know how to choose proper, sheilded and safe campsites, you'll be good to go. Even some setups are made to withstand extreme weather but Im not willing to camp in that stuff. Just need trees. or, cargo racks, saguaros, etc..(seems to me that you have more campsite options with hammocks, no need for flat area, free of rocks and so on.)

[tonyp]

OK, since you guys brought it up, some thoughts from a fellow (budget) hammocker (is that even a word? Let's say that it is...)

You need some padding or insulation in the bottom of the hammock to be remotely competitive with just sleeping on the ground for warmth. (You'll never get as warm as a tent.) Unobstructed drafts from below will just suck all the heat right out of your chest. One night, surprised by a chill, I stuffed a garbage bag full of pine needles underneath my pad, and that got me through the night without adding to my (considerable) pack weight.
I've also found the pad stiffens the hammock a bit, and makes some chores a lot easier (like laying out the sleeping bag).
You can't beat this system, though, in warmer weather, which is what we mostly have.

Te-wa's right about campsite availability - in the forest. In desert or scrub I've found I can't hang the hammock about half the time - especially if I'm with a group of non hammockers. (I'm not sure I'd sleep well strapped to a saguaro...)

I did, actually, look at Te-wa's pack list, and we have ... uh ... contrasting philosophies in that regard. I count pounds (because I'm not crazy), but not ounces. And I stop counting after 50 because I'm better off not knowing. However, I'm somewhat paranoid about water (Ive been known to pack six liters when hiking in the desert), and that ups your weight rather quickly.
With reliable water, and without my son going along (whose presence adds 5-15 lbs to my load for various reasons), I should get it down to around 40 when we leave the truck.

My day job entails marching around buildings for 12-16 hours straight with 20+ pounds of tools strapped to me -so I have a different standard of a heavy burden than most people.

Tony

[te_wa]

i have found hangs every time except the last trip (which used to be total forested w/ pines) here's a photo or 3 of hangs in the desert..these were all taken in parts of the Supes. I really didnt have to search hard at all.
So tonyp are you going to hang on this trip? you'll be the 4th hanger that I know and it seems that they are a special breed of camper of sorts. In the past few months Ive found that hangers are very fond of their hammocks and will do anything and everything to stay off the ground! These shots are of my little recreational hammock but my new one is more of a serious "shelter". Cant wait to use it on the trip.

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[tonyp]

The last time I went out with "adults" (one of them tried to hike in sandals) - and was thereby able to use my hammock - I was one for 3. Couldn't hang it at the Lee's Ferry CG (there's one tree in the whole place) and I couldn't hang it on the second night in Buckskin Gulch because we camped between boulders on top of a hill.

I'm pretty confident, though, that I'll be able to hang my (recreational) hammock + tarp in the eastern Supes. The weather seems to favor this approach anyway.

Tony

[te_wa]

tony, hanging at angel basin wont be a problem. here's a shot of the general scenery:

ruins 001.jpg

there are also numerous trees at the Pine Creek area near Two Bar Ridge/Reavis Gap trails.

pinecreek.jpg

photo courtesy of John Fritz

first day's hiking will be ~12.7 miles.
day two will be ~10.5 miles due to the climb up Frog Tanks trail Im keeping this day short.
final day will be ~14 miles but with a substantial amount of elevation loss except for the ascent up to and over Pinto Pass.
the group can decide any changes in the hiking mileage upon further investigation.

pack light!

[te_wa]

water sources:
the following locations will possibly have water for us. I say possibly because not all sources will be nice, clean flowing creeks.

pinto creek,
roger's spring,
roger's canyon spring,
angel basin,
plow saddle spring,
reavis creek,
pine creek,
walnut spring,
campaign creek, which the trail follows for >5 miles

*update: Spinax just uploaded pics of Rogers Canyon with a whole lotta water. Doesnt look like Angel Basin will be an issue.

[te_wa]

I set up my tarp the way I (finally) want it. Now my hammock has some sort of rain protection. this tarp is very small, and will be best suited for falling pinecones, bird bombs or dew. Im still debating on which hammock I should bring, dont really need the bug net or the tarp. But havent had the chance to use this one, so I might do so. ;-)

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see you guys on Friday.

[nonot]

Right now it looks to be a bit of a heat wave.

87 on Friday in Phoenix translates to a high of 80 or so the first day, that's not too bad
93 on Saturday translates to a high of 83 or so, provided we get an earlier start.
98 on Sunday means that we'll probably be finishing in the lower 90s the last day unless we start really early or take a break during the heat of the day. Plan to bring extra water and take breaks. There is lots of shade in the creekbed on the Pinto, but the climb over the divide all the way to the creek on the Campaign has almost no shade.
Of course it also means that nights will be very pleasant.

This is all assuming that the weathermen in Arizona can predict their way out of a soup bowl, which I haven't really seen happen yet. If you're on the fence wait until Wed or Thurs to see how its going to play out.

The good news is that it seems the creeks are probably still flowing so that could bring relief quickly.

Here are the figures, I think I was wrong, although day 2 is climbing most of the day, it's more spread out. Day 3 will probably have the most AEG with the 2000 foot climb over the divide.

Here are the approx elevations
Day 1: 3600-5400-3600: Major climb over Iron Mountain Pass, total gain >=1800
Day 2: 3600-5000-4800-5300 Major climb up to Plow Saddle/Windy Saddle, minor climb to Reavis Gap, total gain >=1900
Day 3: 5300-3300-5300-3600 Major climb up to Campaign Divide, total gain >=2000

Perhaps we should bring a bulldozer and level this all out

[wallyfrack]

It wouldn't be Supes hiking without a little hardship.

[te_wa]

I finally associated the hikes for this loop, so anyone can easily click the links at the top of the page for information on these trails. West Pinto trail is not listed seperately. (yet)

[tonyp]

The weather for Superior is projected as 85-90 highs and 62-67 lows. We can probably chop 5 degrees off of that for the higher altitudes. Marginal chance of rain.

How are we handling breakfast Friday morning? Are we stopping/driving through somewhere, or should I bring my own or what?
For that matter, how involved do you guys typically get with breakfast on the trail?
By default, I'll boil enough water for coffee and oatmeal while I pack up, then I will sit on my pack and consume it before I start marching.
If no one else can be bothered with this, I'll switch the oatmeal out for breakfast bars, but I gotta know before I leave the house.

Tony

[te_wa]

The weather for Superior is projected as 85-90 highs and 62-67 lows. We can probably chop 5 degrees off of that for the higher altitudes. Marginal chance of rain.

How are we handling breakfast Friday morning? Tony

look at weather for Miami, AZ. It is closest in elevation to both Miles TH and Angel Basin, our destination. High 80 Low 55. Teva Joe has turned me on to using umbrellas, so I'll be trying mine out for the first time.

breakfast before our adventure should be eaten before we leave (at home?) and I usually just scarf down a banana and some coffee before we get to the trailhead. An egg-mcmuffin does the trick too (as long as the trailhead has a toilet )