username
X
password
register
for free!
help
ArticlesGuidesRoutes
 
Photosets
 
 Comments
triplogs   photosets   labels comments more
Copper Mtn Points - Lower/Upper - 3 members in 16 triplogs have rated this an average 5 ( 1 to 5 best )
16 triplogs
login for filter options
Jan 18 2025
avatar

 Guides 8
 Routes 10
 Photos 1,028
 Triplogs 40

44 male
 Joined Jun 14 2019
 nomadic
Copper Mtn Points - Lower/UpperGlobe, AZ
Globe, AZ
Hiking avatar Jan 18 2025
eruTriplogs 40
Hiking
Hiking
 
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners none no partners
Finally a proper hike, we wrapped up the last remaining fork of a major drainage dropping down from the rim of the "Copper Points" - something that'd been on my mind for a while. :)

The beginning was a similar route as before when we went up the other fork: FR 667 to the tank, cowpath to FR 236, then up the drainage after walking the road a short while.

Similar conditions up to the falls with a class 3 bypass below the major fork in the canyon, aside from there only being two muddy cow feces filled pools. The falls itself was dry, we were curious to see if we could just go up it directly, but at the actual pourover handholds were poor enough it didn't seem worth trying to friction up it so we did something similar to our bypass last time.

Above the falls there were occasional pools of water, varying in quality but far more than the two below.

The southern fork started off a little rougher than the northern one - we were expecting to have a nasty time of it but it was actually simpler than the northern fork! A handful of fun easy scrambles (or bypasses) around falls that were definitely easier with there not being any flowing water. It wasn't as brushy as the northern fork, a few times you had to push past branches of a tree growing in the middle, or some plants along the side, or up a bypass, but no sustained bush bashing/thrashing. I was expecting to have to bash out of it up to FR 694 when it leveled out, but the end was quite pleasant and often had a "red rock carpet" laid out. :)

Aesthetically and friendliness were both better than expected. If you don't mind a little light scrambling this is quite a nice loop, it was easier with no water though it's hard to judge aesthetics compared to the upper fork being so dry.

We decided to take a XC cut down from FR 2729 vs going down some of the terrible rocky sections of FR236a - this went pretty smoothly, around 2/3 of the way down we found a very solid cow path that dropped us just a little above the drainage we went up earlier. Interestingly before cutting down to drop out we found a DEEP somewhat wiggly hole drilled into rock near an old cairn. Mining sample? It'd be too deep to be bracing a pole. Radiacode wasn't alarming in the area, but it was a little spicier than most background radiation.

No radiacode alarms this trip, background radiation fluctuated between 1/2 and a bit over 2x of a house in the suburbs of Phoenix.

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Lower Copper Mtn Points Cyn - Sierra Ancha Pools to trickle Pools to trickle
  1 archive
Jan 27 2024
avatar

 Guides 8
 Routes 10
 Photos 1,028
 Triplogs 40

44 male
 Joined Jun 14 2019
 nomadic
Copper Mtn Points - Lower/UpperGlobe, AZ
Globe, AZ
Hiking avatar Jan 27 2024
eruTriplogs 40
Hiking
Hiking
 
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners none no partners
We originally had a more ambitious plan, but decided to get out a little early in case the road was bad in some of the gullies. Did our usual route up Upper CMP Canyon North Fork.

This had more impactful changes in terms of navigation than malicious gap, but less impactful in terms of wilderness character.

Coming up to the usual talus field on climbers right we noticed deeper sidecut banks and drops below large boulders, but it seemed less bushy.

The talus field itself is NOTICEABLY LESS STABLE than it was in 2021 and 2022. We went up leapfrog style, keeping to the upper edge then cutting over to some trees and then took our normal cut out. I knocked down a set of large enough to cause serious injury rocks and I'm pretty damn comfortable moving on talus. My partner was not particularly happy with it, but we made it up without incident. I imagine a lot of fines got washed out that helped keep pieces together, plus some new pieces on top from what must have been a long string of freeze/thaw cycles.

The gully was a little tricker, some water on micro cliffs, and a saturated hillside. Glad we put it off a day! Once at the pillar garden we relaxed a bit and had a scenic lunch, then continued on... to a more overgrown cliffside. Not obnoxious, but some of the little ledges are trickier to navigate and not as comfortably wide. This is unlikely to pose an issue for anyone comfortable going XC in this area, but worth noting.

Instead of trying to drop and then go up the other fork, we decided to check out some little caves we saw from the rim last time and call it good. After some mild bushwhacking up we found them - no archaeological interest, but the downstream one was kind of charming.

The slickrock section is pretty unchanged aside from two fallen trees. One is obnoxious at the top of a little pourover/cascade that I would have limbed if I had my Silky, the other sort of sits nicely on the side further down and blends in better. I'm almost certain there's more rockfall at the top, but still the magnificent spot it has always been!

Waterfalls had more flow than usual but weren't massive, we did decide to bypass the bottom set of slick rock falls due to them being wet. It was easy to gain the skiers left bank just above them then walk down a broken grassy hillside to a gully. I was unsure how it'd work out, but it was some fairly straightforward slithering down to the wash and then a surprisingly easy exit down.

Going down was actually simpler - I think a lot of the tree limbs and bushes that used to clog things up got cleared away! I'd recommend just going up and down the main wash for the time being, and then making a side trip up from the slick rock to the pillar garden if you want to check it out. I'll take that for some slightly longer drops.

By now the road had dried up enough that it was an easy exit out, a few damp spots but zero issues with traction.
 Culture
 Culture [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Bridge  Ghost?

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Copper Mtn Points Drainage - Spring Quart per minute Quart per minute


  1 archive
Apr 14 2022
avatar

 Guides 170
 Routes 148
 Photos 5,914
 Triplogs 2,097

48 male
 Joined Apr 12 2004
 Tucson, AZ
Copper Mtn Points - Lower/UpperGlobe, AZ
Globe, AZ
Hiking avatar Apr 14 2022
PrestonSandsTriplogs 2,097
Hiking3.75 Miles 867 AEG
Hiking3.75 Miles
867 ft AEG
 no routesno photosets
1st trip
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners partners
Chapman
jtaylor
Set off late afternoon on foot from our campsite to the Copper Mountain Points side canyon east of Greenback Peak. The road was completely washed away at the creek crossing just south of Mud Spring, replaced with a 10 foot deep chasm. We rock hopped up the creek bed to the base of the big wall on the east slope. Jason scurried up the treacherous talus slope above to investigate the route below the big alcove, while John, Zane, and I watched nervously from below as small rocks came bounding down. Being late in the day and with how loose some of the talus was, we decided to play it safe and just head back to camp. We enjoyed a beautiful sunset on the Ancha cliffs and hoodoos above us, and campfire quesadillas back at camp.
_____________________
"…you never know when a hike might break out" -Jim Gaffigan
 
Apr 14 2022
avatar

 Guides 1
 Routes 5
 Photos 656
 Triplogs 512

47 male
 Joined Jul 20 2007
 Gilbert, AZ
Copper Mtn Points - Lower/UpperGlobe, AZ
Globe, AZ
Car Camping avatar Apr 14 2022
jtaylorTriplogs 512
Car Camping8.00 Miles
Car Camping8.00 Miles3 Days         
 no routes
1st trip
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners partners
Chapman
Gary Williams
PrestonSands
Great weekend camp/hike adventure driven primarily by great photosets on the HAZ home page. The motley crew included Gary, Chris P, John and Zane, Preston, and Meia and me. A lot had changed since those photosets with fires and flooding, but we found a nice spot not too far from the Lower Points.

Being restless, we half-attempted the Lower Points ruins on day one. If you take one thing from this triplog, it should be to heed Grasshopper's advice here: [ photo ] . Unfortunately, I didn't do enough homework beforehand and took that route. I feel fortunate to not have broken a leg at best, as it is extremely unstable. Short story is that by the time I got above the scree I just wanted to get back down safely and aborted the ruins. Foolish.

Day 2 was driving/hiking to Dupont Cabin. (John - sincere apologies for not voicing concerns for your vehicle sooner. Glad it all worked out...). Beautiful and peaceful cabin with no others to ruin the solitude. Then back down the hill for much deserved cocktails and dinner. Gary is always good for great beverages!

Woke up a touch hungover and hit the road to be home before Easter. We finally saw another party on the way out, and even then it was brief. Glad we were able to wedge this trip in before the holiday!
_____________________
“...wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit, and as vital to our lives as water and good bread.”
-Edward Abbey, Desert Solitaire
 
Feb 05 2022
avatar

 Guides 8
 Routes 10
 Photos 1,028
 Triplogs 40

44 male
 Joined Jun 14 2019
 nomadic
Copper Mtn Points - Lower/UpperGlobe, AZ
Globe, AZ
Hiking avatar Feb 05 2022
eruTriplogs 40
Hiking11.36 Miles 2,336 AEG
Hiking11.36 Miles
2,336 ft AEG
 
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners none no partners
Lower Copper Mountain Points Canyon > FR693 > FR236
naming ref: [ photo ]

Just below the second good parking spot on FR236A there's a signed FR667 (definite HC in a handful of spots, not van friendly unless someone moved a few rocks) that heads towards Greenback Creek and a quite nice large shaded campsite. A trail continues on to a gate, which leads to the nearby tank, then cow paths to FR236 (4WD) through what looks to be an old orchard and some catclaw.

We followed FR236 up past a little pullout with a few fire rings and nice views, and cut off of it when we crossed the dry creekbed of the lower canyon. This provided a quite nice HC 2WD route.

The creekbed itself was quite possibly the most pleasant of the rocky creekbeds in the area - wide and shaded with very few obstacles and stable rocks that weren't too big or too small to keep a nice pace. I assumed it wouldn't be interesting down low, but the original plan was to ridgewalk ~5100ft on the way back down for variety and it'd make things more of a loop.

After a while of this it opened up (as seen the day before from the side of point 4) into a surprisingly interesting set of pools and cascades. Obstacles were trivial and bypasses plenty due to the open nature of the area. Many cow paths on either side of the creek, but we mainly chose to hike up it for interest.

It did tighten up again (as seen before) and while it was a bit denser than the initial lower section with some brushing past of trees it was never a terrible bushbash like the upper canyon, shifting between more and less open sections of boulders and slickrock.

The first major obstacle was a waterfall (with a fascinating frozen rooted tree perched alongside it) downstream of the fork - the southern side looked like it'd require some actual climbing so we made our way up some loose broken shelves on the northern side. Aside from dodging cactii this was straightforward, and once gaining the ridge just above the falls it was easily traversible and then droppable (I took a more direct route, S cut a little downstream and went above the ledge then dropped down to it later).

The top of this was an extremely pleasant long set of cascading slickrock - perhaps my favorite "mellow" section in the area! We reached the fork earlier than anticipated and decided to take the northern route as it had running water and seemed like it'd be more interesting. After some truly stunning pools it shifted to mediocre slickrock, then bushy rocky sections, then the slickrock would come back, then it'd get bushier. As we slowed down to a typical off-trail pace for the first we re-evaluated options - going back down some of the bush seemed demoralizing, so we'd take a look at the cut over to the southern fork (some old mining roads) and if that looked crap just take FR693 to FR236 and back.

The middle of the canyon got that level of bushbashing where you look at the creek and the sides and it all looks bad, but there'd be small breaks of open areas. Just as this got to be a bit much, it opened up into a section... full of class 3 pourovers. This was much appreciated, and they provided interesting vs obnoxious obstacles. This faded, then was replaced by some of the most frozen areas we'd encountered yet, which slowed navigation down but created a really interesting atmosphere. A few sections would have created a lugue effect where one could slide 30ft or so then drop down a falls! At this point our faith in choosing this route was rewarded, though we were keeping an eye on the time.

Like all good things, this once again faded to brush, to be replaced by a handful of valiant class 3 obstacles. Once overcome the creek was a very pleasant slickrock... with impenetrable scrubby forest on either side. While satellite after the fact shows the other (southern side) of this to be far more open (with a few obvious spots to aim for), it would have been a bit of a gamble given the time. And we were also tired of bushbashing. So we continued up the creek. Which of course descended into bushbashing hell for a short while, with marginally better game trails on the north until it opened up again and we followed it to FR693. Whew.

While this was a long looping way back, it was also simple and we'd never been up here, so it worked out. FR693 itself was a bit soft, and the trees were definitely closing in for a jeep (you'd want to trim a few spots) but it was in great shape for being formally abandoned. At one point the eastern side of the road had been carved out by a drainage making it rather lopsided for a jeep, but it didn't seem anything massively out of the norm.

Reaching FR236 we went to the Dupont Cabin. The two main rooms were in good shape, the open (stable? wood shed?) was collapsing a bit. Lots of random condiments and whatnot stashed in ziplocs and the trail register stashed around, along with water bottles (good idea) and cans of mouse feces covered food and some chips & cookies they had tried to get into and would soon. A couple from WI that had signed the trail register 3 days earlier had also graffitied a piece of lumber and propped it up inside... once we left we both independently thought we should have hidden that somewhere as to not encourage more poor behavior. The carpeting inside was a bit gross, but no signs of vandalism, some trash strewn around, left in the fire pit, on the side of the road etc. Was a bit much so we just left it, but it seems like locals must come up and clean the place regularly. It was nice being in a proper pine forest for a while, with a high canopy and nice duffy floors. :)

The hike down was uneventful, though it's clear why we found nearly a dozen pieces of OHVs/ATVs - some large rocky obstacles, and a terrible section of petrified baby heads on the drop down into Greenback valley, though that was made up by the gorgeous evening views of the 3 plateaus stretching in front of us. Dusk approached, but we had layers and only turned on our headlamps when we cut off FR236 towards the tank/orchard again. I took the wrong cowpath out from the tank, but looked up and saw I was heading N judging by hills around me, turned around, and used my phone as a compass to get me back to the gate. ^^;

A great loop - not sure our giant FR exit was necessary, but it was the right call (doing XC in the dark over rocks when it's in the 20s seems like when accidents will happen) and felt better than just hiking up and down it.
 Meteorology
 Meteorology [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Icicle
  3 archives
Feb 04 2022
avatar

 Guides 8
 Routes 10
 Photos 1,028
 Triplogs 40

44 male
 Joined Jun 14 2019
 nomadic
Copper Mtn Points - Lower/UpperGlobe, AZ
Globe, AZ
Hiking avatar Feb 04 2022
eruTriplogs 40
Hiking6.50 Miles 1,932 AEG
Hiking6.50 Miles
1,932 ft AEG
 
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners none no partners
Middle Copper Mountain Points Canyon > Point 4 > Point 2 > Point 3
naming ref: [ photo ]

Well, I wasn't expecting much from this canyon and was still left dissapointed. It worked and the majority of our time was spent up on the points, which still worked out great!

We decided to just take greenback creek from where FR236A washed out to avoid bushbashing. Both forks had light flowing water and were easy walking until the middle fork drainage. It was smaller, mostly dry (a handful of smaller pools), but not too rough. Only one real point of interest, an all too short section of purple slickrock, but whatever. Maybe it'd make a nice non-technical approach from FR236A to the points. Around 5150ft it became overgrown - we'd hop out to the N side of the canyon, drop back in, rinse and repeat. Not much fun at all. Around two hundred feet later the northern side opened up, though the creek itself alternated between mediocre slickrock and thick bushes. Around 5,400ft there was a really cool set of chonky cascades, but you're better off just dropping into that from the top if you're up there vs going all the way up.

All of the point traverses are easy and pretty open - we first went along point 4 to scope out the lower canyon (looked promising with a lower section that looked like open trees, it opened up to an area with some pools, then after closed up a bit but still had some gaps in the canopy to the fork. Came across what seemed to be a very old road (doesn't show up on any maps) along the eastern rim of point 4, intriguing but it wasn't going our way.

Copper Mtn Points tank was full of gross water (some rainbow banding on the ice in it using polarized glasses) - some hunters left camo shelters in disrepair. We dragged the lower one back up to the upper beneath a tree less than a hundred feet from water and piled up some other trash there. The "un-sporting" tree stand was still there, a bit worse for the wear and padlocked heh.

Hopped over to point 2 and checked out the rim of the south fork of the upper canyon and pointed out the drop point, enjoyed that area again, then walked around the rim of the north fork of the upper canyon. AMAZING views down, and really neat to see things from a different perspective - lots of great view points with no inches from the edge fear, though people could get closer than we went if they felt inclined.

Some old really weird cairns there in seemingly random non-navigation centric places. At first I thought they were marking drops to abritrary viewpoints, but after a while noticed one had quartz chips around it, and another had a small pick and shovel tilings right below it. We also encountered a modest mining prospect not on USGS.

Finally we walked around point 3, enjoying a view of both forks of the upper canyon along the side and greenback valley from the tip, and dropped down the spot we had eyed earlier in the day. It was steep but pretty straightforward, and we again found a giant cairn. As it led into a bushy gully we opted to ignore it and just read the terrain out.

Back at camp we campfire cooked up more of those discount top sirloin fillets (grabbed more the last day they were on sale before the trip) and heated up some beans on the marine stove - a filling meal for the lower canyon trip coming up the next day!
 Meteorology
 Meteorology [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Sunset

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water 4 out of 5 Copper Mountain Points Tank 76-100% full 76-100% full
Rather brown water and some rainbow banding on ice when looking through polarized lenses. Hunter trash in the area to be packed out.
  4 archives
Jan 29 2022
avatar

 Guides 8
 Routes 10
 Photos 1,028
 Triplogs 40

44 male
 Joined Jun 14 2019
 nomadic
Copper Mtn Points - Lower/UpperGlobe, AZ
Globe, AZ
Hiking avatar Jan 29 2022
eruTriplogs 40
Hiking6.00 Miles 2,000 AEG
Hiking6.00 Miles
2,000 ft AEG
 
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners none no partners
Upper CMP Canyon South & North Forks
naming ref: [ photo ]

Spurred on by @grasshopper - the south fork of copper canyon (and another norf fork as well). Note I only started the route at the south fork junction, so distance and elevation is off even though the track still shows the complete route.

Same entrance point obviously (3 pink rocks in the now cut off FR236A), as the route is the same up until the junction. Easy forest across a few drainages to the rocky copper creek. In the earlier flatter stages it's simpler to keep to one side or the other, then hop in the creekbeds up when things get steeper and vegetation closes in. Far less bushy than the initial cut and approach the Malicious Gap falls, but similar overall obstacles (lots of boulders, stones, deadfall, trees to brush past, etc)

While it looks like it's going to be a bushwhacking pooeyshow from above, we were pleasantly surprised at how open it was. Anticipating it tightening we explored up a beautiful grassy slope, but ended up coming back down, so you can ignore the first little side trip up the canyon wall. More canyon views and small ledges and slickrock bits than the north fork, which is just trees and boulders until that magnificent set of cascades that start the slickrock. It's a little more interesting IMO, less claustrophobic boulder hopping until it's not.

We ended up cutting out the creekbed on our way up to gain an open grassy slope to the north - that ended up being the bushbashing highlight of the trip amusingly enough. Some neat views, and access to a shallow cave we didn't get to from that route, so worth doing just for variety if you feel like it. We dropped back in near some pine trees when it got more consistently slick rocky and... huh.

It doesn't open up into that huge vista of the north fork, but it's spectacular in a more intimate way. Extremely lush, almost a jungle feel (as opposed to overgrown scrubby forest) with a scattering of scenic boulders and the odd cacti give it a feel of a Indiana Jones set or something. We kept on following the canyon as it tightened up, enjoying the pillars to either side and wondering if/when we'd get cliffed out. After various enjoyable class 3 obstacles we hit the first serious one - a chunky rock wall maybe 15 feet in height. Sara had picked up a puncture wound from an Agave leaf in her right foot so sat this out, but I went up the left side of it where it looked the simplest. It's more difficult than the malicious gap wall, a longer pitch and somewhat smoothed by water, but I made it up without any special moments.

From there it's a simple loose 4-5 minute gully scramble up to the top of the canyon and out to the top! I exited a bit NE of the main inlet and wandered around the top checking out other possible routes and views. Some great viewpoints (mind the edges, and the fact that some of these pillars are already semi detached) but didn't see any other routes down that I'd want to do without rope, so I eventually retraced my steps down.

I choose to chimney/buttslide down a crack near the canyon wall vs downclimb given the smoothness of rock and the fact I was wearing a really sloppy pair of solomon midtops (lightweight, comfy, moderately protective, but not suited for edging/smearing at all). Dropped without incident and we made our way down canyon - the creekbed we bypassed earlier had no major obstacles and we followed up a neat staircasey drainage to the canyon wall to the south because it was there. I'd recommend it. After that dropping down to the junction was more of the same, and then we went back up the north fork we'd admired the day before from the ridge.

The high route (a simplified version of what we did last time based off of previous attempts to reach the ruins) was much more straightforward having done it before. Cut along the bottom then the left of the talus, bushbash through dense but not spiky plants when the first squat pillar was reached to the next gully, follow that up (with more bushbashing and class 3 mixed in with some nice open spots), then cut across some solid rock near the top to the "pillar garden" viewpoint and an easy drop from there to the slickrock part of the upper canyon. I enjoy taking the high way up, and following the creekbed down, but it's not necessary. If there's a lot of flow in the creek it could be useful for bypassing some of the cascade drops at the end which would get complicated if wet I suppose.

From there more tree branch shoving and boulder hopping all the way back down to the road.
  2 archives
Jan 28 2022
avatar

 Guides 8
 Routes 10
 Photos 1,028
 Triplogs 40

44 male
 Joined Jun 14 2019
 nomadic
Malicious GapGlobe, AZ
Globe, AZ
Canyoneering avatar Jan 28 2022
eruTriplogs 40
Canyoneering4.00 Miles 1,000 AEG
Canyoneering4.00 Miles
1,000 ft AEG
Basic Canyoneering - Scrambling; easy climbing/downclimbing; frequent hand use; rope recommended; easy exit
A - Dry or little water; shallow or avoidable water; no wet/dry suit
I - Short 1-2 hours
 
Linked   linked  
Partners none no partners
Malicious Gap & CMP Point 1

Either we picked a slightly better path in this time, or I'm just getting better at bushbashing in AZ, but it didn't seem quite as bad. catclaw was avoided with prejudice and compared to that everything else seems fine hah.

The falls weren't flowing as well as I had hoped, but that's what I get being conservative with the creek crossing - still more flow and green than last time. Did a similar up the little scree pile to the dead tree and then class 3 up from there vs trying to force my way up the slope - it felt fun and easy (IMO) as long as you check your holds but looking at a photo it looks rather insane!

Once up the canyon a bit there was some gorgeous ice. Slow flows of dribbling water over nubly rock combined with some freeze/thaw cycles created some really unique patterns. We slowly made our way up to where the slick rock ended and decided that instead of going up to lion spring like last time we'd try to gain the ridge between it and copper canyon. Fairly steep, but quite easy for what it is (poles recommended).

I was checking some photos from the day before and decided that dropping from the ridge back towards the road directly should work. Unfortunately I was looking at the wrong ridge when comparing maps to topo! The ridge itself is amazing with some gorgeous views both down at the falls and lower slickrock sections of Malicious Gap and the North Fork of Copper Canyon (and the lower South Fork). We found a place to drop - loose garbage rock but taking things slowly (and me clearing out the bottom of the chute with one foot while wedged in) made it look much worse than it was. We wiggled down relatively easily after, but it was noticeably steeper - I wouldn't have wanted to do it without adjustable poles (I was -10cm going up and +15cm going down).

The next days trip report will show what looks to be a simpler drop from the ridge - even easier would be to approach it from a 4WD road from the north.

Once down it was an easy cross over to the road and then out... for some top sirloin fillets that were on sale! S rebuilt the fire ring there and we had a tasty meal before retiring the comforts of the van.
 Culture
 Culture [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Camp-fire  HAZ Food
 Meteorology
 Meteorology [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Sunset
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Isolated
A cluster of flowers growing from the canyon wall, and some more purple flowers on the ridge.

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Malicious Gap Water Fall Light flow Light flow
  5 archives
Feb 13 2021
avatar

 Guides 8
 Routes 10
 Photos 1,028
 Triplogs 40

44 male
 Joined Jun 14 2019
 nomadic
Copper Mtn Points - Lower/UpperGlobe, AZ
Globe, AZ
Hiking avatar Feb 13 2021
eruTriplogs 40
Hiking
Hiking
 
Linked   linked  
Partners none no partners
Upper CMP Canyon North Fork

Lower canyon, starting from about halfway up 236A.

Followed the road up to the "TH" (essentially cut off the road towards the wash where there are three large pink rocks scattered in the road and then continue up the wash). For the very bottom of the wash we walked on the far side where it was flat as the wash was a bit overgrown and there was open terrain at the side, then popped back in as it began to climb. This hike is 95% boring/tedious slog through a bouldery streambed and ducking/pushing under overhanging tree limbs, and 5% wonder at the rock walls and cascades of the slabby stream bed at the end. It gets a little brushier once you pass the main fork up in the canyon (where everyone goes east/left, didn't check out west/right) but not bad, and if you take the high route below you skip the brushier section (going down it wasn't bad though).

While you can go up and down the creekbed just fine, we did a twist that I think is worth repeating. Directions heading up, as that's the better way to do this.

A ways past the fork the streambed is extremely cut out with an 8+ foot mud/rock wall on the right with a precarious tree. Just past this there's a talus field you can head up - to the right across smaller looser rock is the approach to the large cave (dwelling?) that you can see from the streambed. As my partner has PTSD from being in the middle of a significant rockslide on steep loose terrain, we stuck to the left of this where the rocks are larger and surprisingly stable until it ended. Tried going up from there and got cliffed out, so don't do that. What you should do is bushbash up and over into the drainage channel to the left of it then head up that (easy going!) until it cliffs out amongst some trees. From there's it's a simple pleasant walk (comparatively) up to the interesting part of the canyon - passing some amazing pillar formations - stop and look behind you! There's some flat spots that'd make a great lunch lookout. After a brief ledgey traverse it opens up, do a gentle traverse then drop a bit more steadily towards a small point with a dead fallen tree on it, then make your way down to the canyon floor. Once there wander around, enjoy your reward, then drop back down to the road just following the streambed.

For people comfortable on 35deg+ loose scree/talus, heading to the cave and back near the beginning of that would be interesting.

No obstacles beyond basic scrambling, some simple downclimbing on very blocky terrain you could theoretically bypass.

No water in creek until the upper slabby part, nice flow between pools and the falls had a steady stream of fat drops tossed by the wind.
  2 archives
Feb 12 2021
avatar

 Guides 8
 Routes 10
 Photos 1,028
 Triplogs 40

44 male
 Joined Jun 14 2019
 nomadic
Malicious GapGlobe, AZ
Globe, AZ
Canyoneering avatar Feb 12 2021
eruTriplogs 40
Canyoneering2.50 Miles 650 AEG
Canyoneering2.50 Miles
650 ft AEG
Canyon Hiking - Non-technical; no rope; easy scrambling; occasional hand use
A - Dry or little water; shallow or avoidable water; no wet/dry suit
I - Short 1-2 hours
 
Linked   linked  
Partners none no partners
236/A seemed to be recently graded - I was in a sprinter (144" wheelbase) and had no issues getting past the gate and about halfway to the washed out section. There's a single parking spot sloped at the gate to 236a - we parked there and scoped 236A on foot then drove down it. There's a nice flat area near the actual junction to 2933, and another at a flat spot past a small corral. The road gets a bit rougher past that, with no real reward, so basecamped at the latter. If dry something like a moderate clearance subarau should have no issue getting past the gate to a good parking spot.

There's a 5+ ft drop in 236A where it hits the wash, so getting all the way to the end seems a bit adventurous. A few spots to park there, and a fire ring in the road heh.

We went up the scree bypass at the falls a short way then just scrambled up the ledges towards the top - very straightforward class 3 as long as you test your holds before committing to them.

The burn wasn't as bad as I thought - still a good amount of green in the area amongst some dead trees.

Some moderate bushbashing early on in the canyon, nothing of consequence once you're near the falls and past. We started out on one of the upper routes that goes to the cattle/horse bypass and dropped in late which seemed to work out well.

Using the Yosemite system it was all class 1/2 aside from the waterfall itself, which was a mix of 2 and straightforward 3 even tackling it pretty directly. It's grade 2 if you go more aggressively (aside from rope recommended) IMO for the waterfall, grade 1 for everything else using the canyoneering guide here.

Neat spot, and more immediate rewards than Copper Canyon nearby (though the latter is arguably more impressive).

Plenty of pretty pictures, so no need to add my own of the same spots, just added a few for clarity. :)
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Malicious Gap Water Fall

dry Copper Mtn Points Drainage - Spring Dry Dry
Some water trickling once you get up to the actual falls, dry below. 2/13, cannot change date.

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Malicious Gap Water Fall Light flow Light flow
Light flow above falls, 2/12 (cannot change date in UI), some rain evening of 2/13.
  5 archives
Oct 05 2014
avatar

 Guides 44
 Routes 162
 Photos 24,766
 Triplogs 2,411

75 male
 Joined May 04 2004
 Mesa, AZ
Copper Mountain Points, AZ 
Copper Mountain Points, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Oct 05 2014
CannondaleKidTriplogs 2,411
Hiking5.20 Miles 991 AEG
Hiking5.20 Miles   3 Hrs   52 Mns   1.47 mph
991 ft AEG      20 Mns Break15 LBS Pack
 no routes
Linked   linked  
Partners partners
trixiec
Like yesterday, we hoped to do two separate hikes again today. For our longer hike we had planned to hike right from our campsite out to Copper Mountain Points along Forest Road 639. But not knowing just how far the road went (it's no longer on the FS Topo map) we decided to drive out just a mile, then hike from there. That would give us more time to spend for more wandering if we so desired.

While the first 1/2 mile of FR 639 was suitable for a stock 4x4, it went from ok to awful within a hundred yards... not really that big a challenge for an ATV, but way too narrow for an SUV. Of course, with my Cherokee being well used to driving through brush it took it in stride, albeit with a good 25% more deep scratches. Yep, there's a few almost completely through the paint, but that's what I got the Jeep for so it's just earning it's stripes the hard way.

Although the road opened up a bit, we stuck to our plan of driving only a mile and set off on foot from there. Most of the road was rocky but it was better than the other option, bush-whacking all the way.

The last eventually FR 639 faded into nothing but by that time the area was much more open with only a few thickets here and there. Just enough for deer to hide in... we scared one up but it was gone through the trees so fast all I saw was it's back end. Sure looked like a white tailed deer but the coat on the side was almost black?? Weird. Maybe the 'black deer' in the family?

Now we began a wide arc along Copper Points hopefully to locate all the best viewpoints along the way. There were awesome sights to be sure and it would have been even better with a better camera, but we took plenty of time to record the snapshots in our minds.

Finishing up our arc we passed by Copper Mountain Points Tank, complete with an overlooking tree stand, barely a hundred feet away. Makes for a nice sporting shot, huh?
:gun:

Time to head back we took a short-cut back to the road, found a spot with shade, a nice breeze and smooth rock to sit/lay on and had our usual PB&J lunch. From there it was as a short jaunt (ok, some climbing was involved) back to the Jeep.

Driving back out on FR 639 the thick sections of Manzanita seemed to be squeezing in even tighter than before, but it was probably due more to now going against-the-grain through the brush than actually being tighter. Whatever, I got out the loppers and cut through a few of the worst sections and made tracks after that.

Unfortunately on the way to our next hike, in my efforts to show Tracey more of the roads I've traveled since I owned the Samurai it took forever to get anywhere. The erosion over the last few years has been so bad it was very slow going. Of course in the worst areas, for Tracey's sake, I drove at a reduced speed (2-5 mph) instead of the usual 5-10 mph.

Anyway, we decided to skip the second hike an head home. Good thing... when we got back to the 188/87 intersection we waited for what seemed forever to catch a break in the traffic... it seems this was a busy weekend up north. We did see tons of hunters on our drives, but thankfully not a single soul on any of our hikes.
Ahhhh, solitude is bliss! :y:
A beautiful area and we will be back for more soon!

Plenty of photos again but I'll post most of them here on HAZ.

Ornate Tree Lizard video
[ youtube video ]
_____________________
CannondaleKid
  2 archives
Apr 07 2012
avatar

 Guides 20
 Routes 12
 Photos 2,343
 Triplogs 298

51 male
 Joined Mar 31 2008
 Gilbert, AZ
Copper Mtn Points - Lower/UpperGlobe, AZ
Globe, AZ
Hiking avatar Apr 07 2012
ssk44Triplogs 298
Hiking2.00 Miles 850 AEG
Hiking2.00 Miles   7 Hrs      0.29 mph
850 ft AEG
 no routes
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners partners
Grasshopper
Copper Mtn Points - North Canyon


Easter weekend camping and ruin hunting with my good friend Hank (Day 2)

What an adventure! This obscure unnamed canyon is one of the coolest places I've been. The scenery was incredible and the canyon bottom was a deep jungle of live oak and sycamore with a short section having light perennial flow. So special! The upper canyon is solid Sierra Ancha red rock with numerous large pour over areas and ends at a deep box with a huge 150 foot +/- overhanging dry waterfall that would be just incredible with with running water. Some good heavy snow melt would get that baby going nicely.

I really had a feeling that ruins were somewhere along this canyon. Just call it a gut feeling. The problem was "where". This is a big canyon with lots of upper cliff areas to explore. It's a little demoralizing to even try and take on such a task. It was going to take a lot of luck and determination to find my prize. I really felt that the east side of the canyon was my best chance because that's where the big solid cliff faces and thick oak lined benches were. The west side was open and exposed with more broken chunky cliffs. Those type of cliffs usually don't pay off in this area. Scouring the upper bench along the base of those cliffs was nothing short of torture. Thick relentless vegetation, extremely steep up and down sections, loose rubble rock, and a couple of areas with unsettling light exposure. You have to be a little crazy to want to hike this stuff. The payoff is cool hidden cliff routes, rugged grand views, and possible cliff dwellings. It's sweet stuff if you have the heart for it. It's definitely not for the easily intimidated.

We were just about to give up... We had battled through a little under one half mile of rugged bushy cliff face and the terrain was getting more nasty by the minute. One half mile does not sound like much unless your in crap like this. I was physically beat and we still had to somehow find a way back down into the canyon bottom which was about 250 vertical feet straight down with unknown danger to follow. Earlier in the day we had spotted a deep cave area from below that looked very interesting. We were close to that area and decided to continue on to find it. The last 100 yards were brutal and extremely steep. Hank was spent so I pushed on to check it out. I had to kick and push my way through a dense brush wall at the bottom and the remaining climb required both hands to pull my way up through the remaining brush. I had come this far... I just had to know what was up there. I finally reached the cave and it initially seemed like nothing was there. I kept looking around and spotted a big metate sitting right at my feet. Score! I yelled my findings down to Hank. He couldn't stand it and ultimately climbed up with me. It's funny how a little bait can revive the body. Hank was up there in no time flat. With a little more investigation I started spotting petroglyphs. Very cool! I was stoked. Finding something like this without prior knowledge of its existence is so special for me. It's such an adventure to put together a plan and have it actually pay off. It was obvious that this site was an ancient cliff dwelling, however the entire front wall was unfortunately completely caved in. Only part of the lower foundation was visible and it was in rough shape. Sites like this are 700-1000 years old. Finding anything still intact is a miracle in itself. I frankly could care less. Torn down or fully intact... I'll take it either way. I had my prize and I was thrilled. The photos and memories will last a lifetime. This stuff is just so cool! The route down to the canyon bottom was nasty as expected and threw us a couple of surprises right at the end (cliffed out with a mandatory dangerous steep scree slope traverse). Why should I expect anything less? This is hardcore terrain that will fight you till the end. It just comes with the game.

What a great ending to a perfect weekend. Being able to share the hidden ruin site with Hank was the icing on the cake. Everything about this hike was wonderful. The lower canyon was a lush wonderland and the upper canyon was simply stunning. Exploring the intricate upper cliff routes is very rewarding if you can mentally deal with the pain. I was soooo in my happy place that day. The adventure of the unknown. I love it! The entire weekend was just perfect.


Eric (ssk44)
:D
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Light
_____________________
MATTHEW 11:28-30 / PSALM 84:1-2
 
Apr 07 2012
avatar

 Guides 48
 Routes 510
 Photos 9,555
 Triplogs 578

79 male
 Joined Dec 28 2006
 Scottsdale, AZ
Copper Mtn Points - Lower/UpperGlobe, AZ
Globe, AZ
Hiking avatar Apr 07 2012
GrasshopperTriplogs 578
Hiking3.30 Miles 1,050 AEG
Hiking3.30 Miles   7 Hrs   10 Mns   0.46 mph
1,050 ft AEG
 
1st trip
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners partners
ssk44
.
Copper Mtn Points - "Lower": North Canyon Off Trail Route
(seen from Oak Creek Loop hike on previous day-> http://hikearizona.com/photo.php?ZIP=252673 )
 Culture
 Culture [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Inscriptions
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Moderate

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Copper Mtn Points Drainage - Spring Quart per minute Quart per minute
Spring appears to be perennial;

dry Mud Spring Dry Dry
Totally dry;
_____________________
(Outside.. "there is No Place Like It!!")
  4 archives
Apr 05 2012
avatar

 Guides 20
 Routes 12
 Photos 2,343
 Triplogs 298

51 male
 Joined Mar 31 2008
 Gilbert, AZ
Malicious Gap Campsite, AZ 
Malicious Gap Campsite, AZ
 
Car Camping avatar Apr 05 2012
ssk44Triplogs 298
Car Camping
Car Camping4 Days         
 no routes
1st trip
Partners partners
Grasshopper
Four days of camping and ruin hunting with my good friend Hank. Our planed hike days were Friday and Saturday. Finding ruins is just a bonus for me. Adventure and scenery is enough to keep me coming back to this area. The mountains and canyons surrounding Greenback Valley are highly diverse and very scenic. I really love it hear and the campsite at Malicious Gap is special. We had a great time. It just doesn't get any better for me... Perfect temps, minimal bugs, remote privacy, great campfires, and lots of beautiful live oak. I was definitely in my happy place.

So... The question of the day. Did we find any ancient hidden ruins?
;)
 Culture
 Culture [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Camp-fire
_____________________
MATTHEW 11:28-30 / PSALM 84:1-2
 
Apr 05 2012
avatar

 Guides 48
 Routes 510
 Photos 9,555
 Triplogs 578

79 male
 Joined Dec 28 2006
 Scottsdale, AZ
Malicious Gap Campsite, AZ 
Malicious Gap Campsite, AZ
 
Car Camping avatar Apr 05 2012
GrasshopperTriplogs 578
Car Camping
Car Camping4 Days         
 
1st trip
.
3 nights/4 days of "Car Camping/Off Trail Hiking" in the Sierra Ancha Mountain Range within the Greenback Valley Area at the Malicious Gap TH/Car Campsite-->
http://hikearizona.com/map.php?GPS=9967
 Culture
 Culture [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Camp-fire
_____________________
(Outside.. "there is No Place Like It!!")
  2 archives
Mar 05 2005
avatar

 Guides 20
 Routes 12
 Photos 2,343
 Triplogs 298

51 male
 Joined Mar 31 2008
 Gilbert, AZ
Copper Mtn Points - Lower/UpperGlobe, AZ
Globe, AZ
4x4 Trip avatar Mar 05 2005
ssk44Triplogs 298
4x4 Trip6.00 Miles
4x4 Trip6.00 Miles1 Day         
 no routes
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners none no partners
Copper Mtn Points - Upper

ATV trip along abandoned FR693 to the outer points for further exploration on foot. Very cool place to be early in the morning. The views are wonderfull.



(Triplog date is approximate)
_____________________
MATTHEW 11:28-30 / PSALM 84:1-2
  3 archives
average hiking speed 1.47 mph

WARNING! Hiking and outdoor related sports can be dangerous. Be responsible and prepare for the trip. Study the area you are entering and plan accordingly. Dress for the current and unexpected weather changes. Take plenty of water. Never go alone. Make an itinerary with your plan(s), route(s), destination(s) and expected return time. Give your itinerary to trusted family and/or friends.

helpcommentissue

end of page marker