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Red Tanks Trail #107, AZ

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Guide 155 Triplogs  1 Active Topic
Rated  Favorite Wish List AZ > Globe > Queen V NE
3.2 of 5 by 29
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Difficulty 3 of 5
Route Finding 3 of 5
Distance One Way 8.2 miles
Trailhead Elevation 2,625 feet
Elevation Gain 1,140 feet
Accumulated Gain 1,515 feet
Avg Time One Way 5 hours
Kokopelli Seeds 13.25
Interest Seasonal Creek
Backpack Yes & Connecting
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Photos Viewed All Mine Following
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20  2019-05-17
Fraser - Randolph Loop
35  2019-04-12
23  2019-01-19
Superstitions White Rock & Whiskey Springs
8  2019-01-05
Whiskey West-Red Tanks Loop
29  2019-01-01
Red Tanks Super Loop - Peralta TH
22  2018-12-10
Peters and Red Tanks Loop
27  2018-11-08
Red Tanks Coffee Flat Loop
4  2018-02-25
Herman's Cave
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Author nonot
author avatar Guides 93
Routes 236
Photos 1,969
Trips 476 map ( 4,511 miles )
Age Male Gender
Location Phoenix, AZ
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Trailhead Forecast
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Preferred   Mar, Nov, Feb, Jan → 8 AM
Seasons   Late Autumn to Early Spring
Sun  6:14am - 6:21pm
Official Route
27 Alternative
Fauna Nearby
Flora Nearby
Meteorology Nearby
Named place Nearby
Culture Nearby
Avoid the Commie Paratroopers
by nonot

Overview: This is a less-traveled trail that begins at Dripping Springs continuing through Upper La Barge Box. It follows the creek westward until intersecting with the Dutchman Trail #104 at La Barge Spring. Peralta Trailhead is generally the trailhead of choice.

Due to its length and the fact that neither terminus is near a trailhead, doing the entire Red Tanks trail as a day hike is not recommended as an entire loop would be over 20 mi. However, portions of the Red Tanks are used on many popular day loop hikes, and a backpacker could easily travel from Dripping Springs to La Barge for a short 9-mile day. Excellent campsites can be found at both ends of this trail. Primarily used by backpackers, it is excellent for those seeking solitude.

For those considering the Red Tanks, I recommend following it in a clockwise direction, primarily for the climb to the Red Tanks Divide on the east side of Coffee Flat. Although uphill in both directions, the portion from Dripping Springs to the Divide seems to be a worse climb than going from the other direction. However, as I did this in the reverse direction, I will describe it going counterclockwise.

Hike: Red Tanks is primarily composed of 3 sections used by many loop hikes:
A: Dripping Springs to Hoolie Bacon (Red Tanks Divide portion)
B: Hoolie Bacon to Whiskey Springs (this section is also known as "Upper La Barge Box")
C: Whiskey Springs to La Barge Springs

Portion A: This segment seems to me to be the toughest of the 3 parts of the Red Tanks Trail. Beginning at Dripping Springs, you are at the intersection of Frasier and Randolph Canyon. From here, you follow the creek bed of Randolph Canyon north. The high route follows high on the east bank, but some prefer to stay in the creek bed. After about 0.8 mi, or about 15 minutes, the trail crosses (or leaves) the creek and proceeds on a steep climb directly west. It is imperative you pay close attention and keep your eyes peeled. Those following the trail high on the east bank will probably discover the crossing, however from the easier route up the creek bed, it is EXTREMELY easy to miss the turnoff to the west, it is not marked well at all and one might find themselves unfortunately heading up Randolph Canyon. It was marked by a tiny cairn about 40 feet off the trail under a bush when I went. I thought that surely that couldn't be the marker for the creek exit, but I had been warned by a fellow hiker to keep my eyes open and luckily I investigated a bit and followed it up. It wasn't until I had climbed a few hundred yards that I actually convinced myself this was part of the Red Tanks and not some game trail. Those going in the reverse direction are likely to not have this problem, but I feel compelled to warn those headed north to watch closely.

Once you get out of the creek, the trail climbs to the Red Tanks Divide. This climb can be unpleasant if it is sunny out as you get full exposure to the east rising sun. I would recommend those attempting this to pick a day where the high is no more than the upper 70s as the combination of climb and full sun exposure can beat you up pretty good.

Climbing up to the divide, my trail map indicated there were a few offshoot trail segments. I have no clue where these might be, the Red Tanks trail is faint but distinguishable, but I didn't see any cairns or distinguishable side trails leading off from the Red Tanks at this point.

At the top of the Divide, the view to the north is excellent. You can see all of the Horse Tanks Basin, Herman Mountain, and some of the untamed area near Brad's Canyon. Take a break here to rest from the climb and grab some lunch.

The rest of this portion descends down from the divide to Upper LaBarge Creek. You will have problems once you finally reach the creek. Finding the Red Tanks Trail the last 0.2 mi to get across La Barge Creek and the numerous tributary streams at this point to the intersection with Hoolie Bacon will take some guesswork and a few wrong turns. I recommend you generally try to follow your compass mostly north, slightly west and follow the creek beds that head in the direction you are going. Keep a lookout for cairns and don't be afraid to return back to your starting crossing point if you see nothing after heading about 8-10 minutes in one direction. It took me three tries at this point until I spotted the final portion of the Red Tanks to the signed intersection with Hoolie.

In general the trail in the Red Tanks Divide portion is less traveled and there are the two difficult route-finding sections. There is significant cat claw along this portion, so pants are recommended.

Portion B: The Upper La Barge Box portion of the Red Tanks is a short, scenic, climbing trail that follows high above the creek on the north side of the creek. Climbing on Herman Mountain, the lower portions are shaded by Picacho Butte to your south in winter early and late in the day.

You will climb from the intersection of Hoolie Bacon along a somewhat easily followed trail that gradually gets cliffier. I recall there being a very brushy section shortly into it that provided some good shade for a break on a hot day. After a few hundred feet of elevation gain, the trail precariously follows along a ledge of Herman Mountain and provides outstanding views of La Barge creek. Short, 45 degree steep sections are common, probably about 6 sections no more than 50-100 feet or so long, are encountered, so it may present some difficulty for some hikers, think of something like portions of Cardiac Hill, maybe a bit steeper. There is one decent campsite along at about the halfway point on this segment which would be great for those that wouldn't roll over in their sleep, :D.

For about 50% of this portion, you can look at Herman's Cave. Herman's cave is on the north side of the creek and faces southeast. If you wish to check it out, be warned there is significant scree and it is fairly steep. The cave itself may have bats, birds, or just their droppings. It is steep inside the cave too, so camping would not be possible. I'd recommend you take a picture and move on since it is not really worth the climb in my opinion. Fragile Arch is worth gawking at for a bit, it is located on the top of a hill to the south of the cave.

After you descend back into the creek near the final leg, you will have one difficult section. The trail drops you off into the creek bed. The crossing actually goes backwards along the creek, so use this knowledge wisely and you should have no problem. IE, it goes the REVERSE direction in the creek bed for about a hundred and fifty feet. If you are traveling going west along the trail, this will be the section it dumps you in the creek and you go upstream. If you are traveling going east along the trail, this is easily recognizable because you just emerged from a clearing under a canopy of trees from the south side of the creek bed and you should go downstream.

After this section, the trail is somewhat gnarly and crosses the creek a few more times before reaching the signed intersection with the Whiskey Springs trail. There are a few campsites between the intersection and the backwards-crossing section that could cause a slight bit of confusion as well.

Overall, the Upper La Barge Box portion is somewhat difficult due to the climbing, but it is short and there is not a lot of cat claw. The views are outstanding.

Portion C: The section from Whiskey Springs Trail intersection to LaBarge Spring (and the intersection with Dutchman Trail) is one of the flattest sections of trail you are going to find anywhere in the Superstitions. Unfortunately, it is full of cat claw.

The trail follows along La Barge Creek, crossing it numerous times. There are several campsites along this section, which may unfortunately cause the hiker to lose the main trail. If you find yourself in one of them and cannot locate the trail, I'd recommend you backtrack, as many of the campgrounds are right near where the trail crosses the creek.

This section is the most traveled and usually is decently cairned, except for those few spots you need them to distinguish where a campsite trail shouldn't be followed.

Pants are recommended, as well as long sleeves. Those with Kevlar would want to don it for this section. The crossings are generally a few dozen yards of rocky creek crosses, and unless it has rained in the past two months, you generally don't have to be concerned about getting your feet wet.

After traveling along and admiring the cottonwoods and cat claw, you will hear the sound of water as you near the end. La Barge spring is one of the most reliable in the western Supes and it is a mini-oasis of vegetation and wildlife. There are some ENORMOUS trees thriving in this micro-climate and if you are a birder, break out the glasses and stay awhile.

If you do check out the trough, please beware of the poison ivy and keep any trash, food, etc away from the trough and pipe. The quality of water in the spring seems excellent. There may be a snake known to inhabit near the spring as well, please leave him be. Campers should not camp within a few hundred yards of the spring, as the wildlife needs the water as much as you do. Besides which, who wants a skunk in their tent?

Overall, this portion is easy and flat with some rocky creek crossings, but if you can make it to the Red Tanks, you should be able to navigate this portion without much difficulty.

Triplogs: Consider your options before posting a triplog to this page.
• Day hikes to consider: (go to the page and post)
- (difficult) Charlesbois Loop II
- (difficult) Whiskey West-Red Tanks Loop
- (strenuous) Dripping Springs Super Loop
- (strenuous) Red Tanks Super Loop from Peralta TH
- (strenuous) Tortilla Loop

• Backpack loops and others starting on other segments
- Post a triplog from the beginning segment (not here)
- Adjust your mileage, elevation gain & accumulated elevation gain
- After it post, link other this and other trail segments using the "Link Hikes: <- Link to other Hikes!"

Check out the Official Route and Triplogs.

Leave No Trace and +Add a Triplog after your hike to support this local community.

2008-03-12 nonot

    One-Way Notice
    This hike is listed as One-Way.

    When hiking several trails on a single "hike", log it with a generic name that describes the hike. Then link the trails traveled, check out the example.
    WARNING! Hiking and outdoor related sports can be dangerous. Be responsible and prepare for the trip. Study the area you are entering and plan accordingly. Dress for the current and unexpected weather changes. Take plenty of water. Never go alone. Make an itinerary with your plan(s), route(s), destination(s) and expected return time. Give your itinerary to trusted family and/or friends.

    Most recent of 57 deeper Triplog Reviews
    Red Tanks Trail #107
    rated 5rated 5rated 5rated 5rated 5
    Five years ago I did this hike for the first time, exactly one month later in the year. And going in a clockwise direction.

    I get ahead of myself... I started out just before 7 from the Peralta TH to do a 14 mile hike, 7 miles out Coffee Flat and back. When I got to where the Read Tanks joins the Coffee Flat I made the decision to change my itinerary. I'd take the Red Tanks back. I figured I'd done this before, it was a cooler day than the previous time, I had plenty of water and I was indestructible. Of course I ignored that I didn't have any food and I was 5 years older. Going CCW was really different, the up hills seemed longer and steeper. On the first trip the trail was covered in wildflowers. This time it was covered in cats claw and prickly pears. Going CCW I found that I tended to loose the trail easier than I remember happening the first time.

    Then by the time I got to the Whiskey Springs turn off I was already tired, and still had to up that hill.

    The first trip I rated this loop as a 5, if I were going to rate it today it'd probably only be a 3. Wow quite a difference.

    There were two really good things about the hike. The sights at the upper LaBarge box were better going this direction. Never saw the spire and cave from the other direction. The other great thing is I made it.
    Red Tanks Trail #107
    rating optionrated 4rated 4rated 4rated 4
    Had the day off so I headed into the Supes for a moderate loop hike. Started off heading up the Dutchman Trail and connected onto the Whiskey Spring Trail. I stopped by the spring and saw a small pool that didn't look very appetizing. The good thing is there are three medium size pools roughly 40 ft below the spring. The water was cool and clear and ideal for filtering.

    I continued on and took a short break at the Red Tanks Trail junction. From there I headed northwest and stopped at La Barge Spring. I hiked up the embankment and the found the spring overflowing with water. There is a small stream coming out of a pipe. I would guess a liter a minute. It looked really good!

    The last few miles to the trailhead blurred by & I was done hiking around early afternoon. I was on my way home when Chumley texted about 9L Peak. I ended up joining him. Good timing and great day on the trails!
    Red Tanks Trail #107
    rated 5rated 5rated 5rated 5rated 5
    Bright and sunny day. Trails weren't too bad except for the west one or two miles of the Red Tanks. It was pretty overgrown with catclaw, cactus and other bushes. Nothing too serious but it made me glad I had long pants, long sleeved shirt and big brimmed hat. The rain last night caused a few puddles but no flowing water to be seen. I liked the Red Tanks from Whisky Springs down to Dripping Springs much better than this portion.
    Red Tanks Trail #107
    rating optionrating optionrating optionrated 2rated 2
    I could not decide where to go for birthday hike and stumbled upon this one the night before. I did the research and loaded the maps and I still was not prepared enough for this one. Only 15 minutes of headlamp needed on the Dutchman trail and then through Barkley Basin and to Coffee Flats. This is the easiest hike in all of the Superstitions. IMO The actual hiking is incredibly dull, but those views at sunrise are just some of the best I have ever seen. Also, the thousands of saguaro created quite a forest leading up to the king saguaro. Most arms I have ever seen. Made it to the old trough and windmill at Randolph Canyon in 2 hours and thought I was making great time. Randolph in the fall is beautiful! The colors on all of the trees increased as the canyon walls tightened. As I was making my way to Dripping springs, I saw several of the smallest seeps coming out of the rocks below. The actual spring was dripping.. barely. Only water I saw all day. The camp spot there seems like it would be a great one when the creek is flowing. There were some small caves above but I didnt feel like climbing around in there and I had a lot more hike ahead of me.. A lot more. The start of the Red Tanks section was very gradual and mis-leading! :x After gaining 500 feet in 2 1/2 miles, the trail goes steeper and gains another 500 feet in about 1 mile. Took a lunch break here at 5 hours in. I knew I still had the climb out of Whiskey to Miner's, but I assumed because I was at the highest point on the hike, the rest would be easy peasy. It was not easy peasy. Coming over the saddle into Red Tanks Divide, the views were spectacular and everything was so green and lush. Sometimes it doesnt even make sense that this is considered a desert.. then again, this is December. After not too long I got to really enjoy that lushness up close and personal, as the brush became so thick at times it was nearly impassable. Also, the 'brush' was actually bushes completely made of thorns. At times I felt like I was in the first 'Saw' movie with all the barbed wire. Wearing shorts was not a problem as mostly all of the terrible stuff was waist and above. It had no problem ripping through 2 layers of clothing and shredding half my body. I was shuddering at the thoughts of the show 'Naked and Afraid'. I haven't had my fingers scratched up like that since I bought my daughter a kitten 3 years ago. Trying to go around the trail and find a 'better' way was futile, so I sucked it up and just pushed though. Scared a white tail up the hill (from my shrills of pain probably). Much wildlife will be sustained in those mountains due to the amounts of my flesh torn off and left on those thorns. I finally made it through the worst of it as I got to Upper LaBarge Canyon? This canyon was very remarkable due to it was like 2 views in one the way you peered down through the canyon, and then off to far away landscapes between and beyond. The trail stays mostly on the northern side of the canyon, but once it drops down into the creek, there were some gigantic boulders to navigate and climb around that took some extra time for route finding. Saw the very large Herman's Cave, but didnt bother to even check it out because at that point I was exhausted. Took a well deserved break at the Red Tanks/ Whiskey Springs junction and recharged. The hike up to Miner's saddle was not that bad and I did have enough energy to pick up the pace quite a bit down the hill. Probably not a good idea, because just about the 20 mile mark, I could feel myself starting to really break down. Back at the Coffee Flat junction my legs went into auto pilot. I couldn't feel them moving but they kept going and so did I, and an hour later I was back at the Peralta TH.
    This was a fantastic hike that is only meant for an elite few, because it is an extremely tough one! Always good to push your limits but you have to know what those limits are and respect your own intuitions. I really pushed myself out there and maybe too much because that night and since then, I have had a pretty bad fever. I'm sure I will be all well for next Thursday's hike! Be safe out there, everyone!
    Red Tanks Trail #107
    rating optionrating optionrating optionrated 2rated 2
    Starting to get toasty out there so wanted to get back to the Supes while there was still some water out there for Gabby dog and not roast myself. 1 for 2 today.. Dutchman up to Miner's needle is one of my favorite stretches of easy hiking. As the trail gradually ascends, it awards spectacular views of Barkley Basin and surrounding areas with thousands of Saguaro. I love saguaro. After making the saddle just past Miner's needle, I headed down to Whiskey Spring for some new territory for me. Lots of water flowing in just about every creekbed still. Whiskey Spring was nice and shaded and there was a good camp spot there. Passed one guy who was on a 3 day backpack, coming from LaBarge who thought I was crazy trying to get to Charlebois in one day.. Rook.. Red Tanks trail was pretty straight forward, just follow the creek, crossing occasionally. I did actually lose the trail once but again following the creek got me to LaBarge Spring, where I met 2 backpackers also headed to Charlebois. Back to familiar territory but now I had a mission.. to find the MASTER MAP! I knew roughly where it was at but it eluded my last search. Never giving up hope but starting to doubt my location, I headed to a higher ground to get a broader view and when I turned around it was right there! :y: For me this was a great feeling of accomplishment. I studied the wall and appreciated the history before me for several minutes before heading to Charlebois. Met another guy hanging out right at the spur and told him about the sweet spot further back and invited him to come along with me. He agreed, I turned around and POOF! he was gone.. superstition strangeness.. I ate lunch and enjoyed one of my all time favorite spots in the Supes. Made my way back towards La Barge Spring and passed 4 more groups between there and the Dutchman junction. At this point it started to get hot. Mid-day, little to zero shade, and a steady incline with the miles racking up, I started to tire just a little bit. It was then I found the perfect break spot under a huge boulder right in the middle of the trail. Gabby and I literally just sat in the water for 10 minutes to cool off. Coming down Bluff Spring trail I was thankful I was not hiking the other direction! Made it to the Peralta superhighway and the parking lot in 7 hours. This 18 miles kicked my :pk: pretty good and Gabby hasn't gotten off the couch for 2 days.. = Another awesome Superstition hike!

    Lots of color out there but not quite in full bloom yet.
    Red Tanks Trail #107
    rating optionrated 4rated 4rated 4rated 4
    Woodbury Coffee and Red Bacon with JF
    Most high clearance 2wd vehicles should be able to make the drive. Several water crossings. The only likely issue is for those timid with a gas pedal crossing Queen Creek.

    Woodbury Trail #114
    Hiked this to scratch if off a list.

    Coffee Flat Trail #108
    The cow patties get your attention when it's dry. It's a slice of heaven when the creeks are flowing. Really nice saguaros either way.

    Red Tanks #107
    Five years after our first hike on the eastern side we returned. It didn't ring a bell. A little rough. This trail has four distinct personalities: La Barge Creek, Upper La Barge Box, North of Red Tanks Divide, Red Tanks Canyon. I like 'em all. It's not a trail for flip flops and shorts, come prepared.

    Hoolie Bacon # 111
    The best part of this trail is Bacon in the name. Horse Ridge saddle is a fine lunch stop with great 360 views. 4143 is better, please keep that a secret.

    JF Trail #106
    I've jigsawed this in the past, mainly Tule to Peralta. I do not care for either end. The 2.3 mile middle segment from 4597 to Tortilla Pass is worthy. It has a Reavis spirit of intrigue that I find relaxes the mind.

    Bruce suggested JefF out-n-back. Meh... do I know you? He came back with this loop and it was game on! We had perfect temps with all the creeks in taper down flow. I didn't blink at 22+ miles. Boy howdy, 12 hours sucker punched my body.
    Hurts so good, great hike!

    carried 3.5 quarts, consumed 2.5

    a few sprigs of paintbrush was the main attraction, several dozen blue dicks scattered throughout our loop, two poppies... yeah not much

    lots of wiry lotus, which is like getting excited over dollar store cookies
    Red Tanks Trail #107
    rating optionrated 4rated 4rated 4rated 4
    Woodbury Coffee and Red Bacon with JF
    The drive in on 172/172A was uneventful. Queen Creek had a decent flow, but nothing a vehicle that would be driving these roads couldn't handle. Close to our TH, we saw a large Ford Transit panel van coming down 172A.

    Woodbury Trail #114
    There was one truck at the TH when we got there.
    This trail down to the Woodbury TH appears to be and old road.
    Probably a one and done

    Coffee Flat Trail #108
    This eastern stretch of the Coffee Flat Trail to Red Tanks was new for me. It was an easy stroll through Fraser Canyon. Very pleasant with the green and water everywhere. This would make a nice loop with other canyons in the area.

    Red Tanks #107
    I'd done this section before but did not remember much of it. It's quite scenic with the views of the surrounding areas and all the flowing water.

    Hoolie Bacon # 111
    Hoolie Bacon for me, is just a way to get to other places in the Supes. We had lunch at Horse Saddle and it did have some great views. The only hikers we saw all day, were at this saddle. One dayhiker, one backpacker and us just happened to all meet at the same time there. The hike down from Horse Saddle to the North is steep, rough and loose. Once down in the lower sections the trail is much nicer. You easily cross the flowing Tortilla Creek numerous times.

    JF Trail #106
    The northwestern portions of this trail is just OK. There are BIG views of the surrounding areas that help a bunch.
    The trail finally starts to get interesting in the mid section around unnamed Peak 4597. [ photo ] . It seemed to take forever to get to Tortilla Pass. Dropping down JF from Tortilla Pass, there is also some steep, loose washed out areas. Towards the bottom we hit sunset and donned our headlamps.

    The 1.2 mile 500'+ climb out on Woodbury to the truck, could not end quick enough.
    It was a full day in the Supes.
    You couldn't ask for better hiking weather.

    With this this loop I'm getting closer to hitting all the trails in the Supes (37 of 39 done).
    I Just have the 2 shortest left, with just 1.1 Total miles to go!
    Red Tanks Trail #107
    rating optionrated 4rated 4rated 4rated 4
    Headed out for a nice day in the Supes. Our group of four plus two dogs started hiking from the Woodbury TH around 10am and headed for Randolph Canyon. There was a nice flow of clear and cool water. From there we worked our way down canyon as we rock hopped and pushed through sporadic brush. It's easy going for the most part and very scenic. We took a short break by Randolph Spring and then took our lunch by Dripping Springs. We then started our return up Fraser Canyon. It's easy going again as there is less water and good trail for most part. We passed the JF Ranch and then followed the road back to our TH. We were done by mid afternoon. This was a really nice hike with a great group. We had perfect weather and it was great getting out. Thanks Kyle for driving.
    Red Tanks Trail #107
    rating optionrated 4rated 4rated 4rated 4
    This turned out to be a really nice day. I thought it was going to get toasty but the clouds stayed above us. The dogs were loving all the water. The water made this a great loop-- I don't think I would do this loop again without it. We did the loop counter-clockwise and had lunch at Dripping Springs where we saw the only other group all day. We short-cut it through the JF Ranch road on the return.
    Red Tanks Trail #107
    rating optionrated 4rated 4rated 4rated 4
    Upper La Barge Box
    Out and back to Upper La Barge Box with Kevin, from NE. Turns out this was his longest hike ever. :y:

    Gorgeous day. Plenty of sunshine and clear blue skies. It was nice to see (and hear) running water in La Barge Canyon. We passed several deep pools that looked inviting. Backpackers were taking advantage. We passed two who were on their way out and eight more who were on their way in as we were heading out, all on the Whiskey Spring trail. We saw just two hikers. We met them at the junction of Dutchman and Coffee Flat. They were returning from Reed's Water. They said there was lots of water there, too.

    It felt warm on the way back. It was frigid just a week ago. Short winter. Not that I'm complaining. I thought it was just about perfect. Another gorgeous day in paradise!

    p.s. The trails were just about perfect, too. A 16 mile hike in the Supes with just a couple of nothing scratches is a win.

    Permit $$

    Map Drive
    FR / Dirt Road / Gravel - Car Okay

    To Peralta Trailhead
    7.6 miles east of the junction Idaho Rd / US-60. Turn Left on to FS77 which is Peralta Road. Follow FS77 5.6 miles to a left and up turnoff. Continue 1.9 miles to Peralta Trailhead.

    The trailhead has restrooms minus running water. The parking lot is huge. It does fill up in season on weekends. Since there are no lines the rangers ask that you park straight between the posts in the main lot. Please do your part with this simple request and make room for the next guy. 0.5 miles before reaching the trailhead is an overflow lot which is also suited for horse trailer parking.

    From PHX (Jct I-10 & AZ-51) 45.2 mi - about 1 hour 8 mins
    From TUC (Jct 1-10 & Grant) 97.0 mi - about 2 hours 16 mins
    From FLG (Jct I-17 & I-40) 192 mi - about 3 hours 15 mins
    help comment issue

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