If they really "cared" they'd open Camelback sunset to sunrise
or at least 2 hours before sunrise and after sunset ( I've heard the smorgasbord of excuses and this is doable )
@Widowmaker If horses around Phoenix start dropping dead from being mishandled in the heat, I'm sure the media will be all over it. Until then, I don't think it's a concern.
Do dogs even hike when it gets hot? Won't they just lay down in shade and pant? I watched a friend's dog in 2010 when in Flag, and tried to take her on the Elden lookout trail. She got about 1 mile in, and just laid down under a tree and basically refused to go. She took water and panted, but until I went down, she wasn't having it. It was warm, 80s, most likely, and she had done that hike before, so I think she just felt it too hot. So, will dogs even go in 101 degrees?
I have a pretty much zero lack of interest in the city of Phoenix or its hikes, or in hiking anywhere when it's really hot. However, after thinking it over, it seems to me people should have the right to hiking in the heat if they want to. I am not sure about taking dogs, though. Where does walking the dog end, and animal cruelty begin? Dogs have no say-so, no choice in the matter.
There is a point of no return unremarked at the time in most lives. Graham Greene The Comedians
A clean house is a sign of a misspent life.
@Jim_H
Yes, and that's the problem. I shared your sentiment when I first started taking my dog out, but as it turns out, it has to get really bad before she says something. I've carried my dog out of a couple canyons due to really damaged pads before I learned to really look for signs exhaustion/injury, as well as pay attention to the terrain vs what I know she's capable of.
"Arizona is the land of contrast... You can go from Minnesota to California in a matter of minutes, then have Mexican food that night." -Jack Dykinga
@JoelHazelton
Well, first, I don't have nor do I want a dog. I like them, I just don't have the need, room, or desire to have a life form depend on me. If I did have one, I would never take this fictional entity out in the sun or heat, around the valley. No sweat glands and being close to the ground is just wrong, for hot sunny hikes. Maybe a pool, but not a trail.
Sienna, who was or may still be a great dog, was a trooper and hiked frequently in summer around and in Flagstaff, but never on that particular trail, which I guess was too hot for her. I know she would have enjoyed the upper elevations, but we never got to the middle levels. She may also have missed her owner, but I don't know. It wasn't a hot day, not even for Flagstaff standards. Really hot, I mean, not that Flagstaff sentiment that anything over 70 is, "hot". Still, I read her and we went down. I could have forced her with a leash, but I was not about to hurt Sienna.
Well with all these bans coming I am looking at taking Rowdy out to Payson on either Tuesday or Wednesday. So what I am looking for is a hike around 12+ miles but really looking to hike where there is running water.
Any ideas?
Hmmm... There is an interesting parallel that has happened here. There are several "trails" that Lake Mead NRA now officially closes from mid May - Sept since . The main ones (Gold Strike Canyon and White Rock Canyon) are both places you see an inordinate number of people hiking with no water and displaying little common sense. The stated reasons are an increase in number of rescues needed in these areas in recent years (including 4 fatalities, all heat-related), danger to the rescue personnel, and failure of the "Do NOT hike, you will die" signs they put up to make any difference. Enforcement is via gating of the parking and ticketing/booting of any vehicles left anywhere near the trailheads. There aren't really alternate places to park for these hikes, although someone could of course drop you off if you were very determined.
I can see both sides in the argument, and the majority of hikers who commented during the public comment period expressed mixed opinions. A lot of people, sadly, rarely think about anyone other than themselves, and fail to consider the danger to SAR personnel if they end up needing help. At the same time, it makes me angry to have to sink to the lowest common denominator and act as if no one has any common sense. Safety of SAR personnel ended up being the deciding factor, as I recall.
@JasonCleghorn
Yes it is so sad. When Rowdy and I hike he is always my number one priority.
He loves to hike but if he looks like he's struggling we turn back. And when I am hiking I am never in a hurry so he can take as many breaks as he wants. And I will not push him.
@Widowmaker
My hiking revolves around my wife and pup. I plan everything for them, water, shade, elevation gain yada yada. When all things fall together, life is perfect.
I recently spoke with one of the park rangers at Piestawa Peak, who told me that the number of deaths this summer is about average. He blamed the increased media coverage on the parks department's new social media campaign, which results in the hiking death information being more rapidly and widely disseminated.
I think everyone's opinions on these matters is gonna depend on whether or not they use these trails. In the past, I had never been much for urban hiking. The idea of hiking, and not leaving the city seemed strange to me. Part of the reason I went hiking was to go to wilderness areas. But lately I've started hiking Piestawa on a regular basis. It's so convenient, is a good workout, and I love the culture there. I love seeing all the regulars who are there every day, especially the older folks. I would be really bummed if they put further restrictions on the hiking there.
As many have already said, the best solution is to leave the parks open at later hours, and encourage night hiking. I'm sure the people who live in the communities surrounding the mountains would be dead set against this, but this is public land. Phoenix ain't NYC, or Seattle, or San Francisco, but we've got these mountains. It's something that makes this place unique. So don't restrict their use.
LARichardson73 wrote:But lately I've started hiking Piestawa on a regular basis. It's so convenient, is a good workout, and I love the culture there.
Interesting. Your experience there is so different than mine. I've hiked Piestewa Peak a handful of times and I dislike it due to the overwhelmingly narcissistic culture I encountered there most every time. Hopefully my experiences were just anomalies.
rcorfman wrote: I've hiked Piestewa Peak a handful of times and I dislike it due to the overwhelmingly narcissistic culture I encountered there most every time. Hopefully my experiences were just anomalies.
Nope, they were not. I only hike up Squaw once a year just to say I did it due to that reason.
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