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Salt Flat Trail #71 - 5 members in 10 triplogs have rated this an average 2.4 ( 1 to 5 best )
10 triplogs
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Apr 15 2022
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 Guides 107
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 Triplogs 514

male
 Joined Nov 18 2005
 Phoenix, AZ
Nelson Trail #159Camp Verde, AZ
Camp Verde, AZ
Backpack avatar Apr 15 2022
nonotTriplogs 514
Backpack17.00 Miles 3,200 AEG
Backpack17.00 Miles
3,200 ft AEG
 no routesno photosets
1st trip
My plan for this backpacking trip didn't really work out because of the lack of water. The only available water appeared to be within 1 mile of the trailhead from a series of 4 springs that collectively appear to be called Nelson Place spring.

If I would offer a suggestion it would be to explore the Pine Mountain Wilderness via dayhiking. The Salt Flat campground area is pretty nice, though you have to bring all your water with you.

I would also warn potential backpackers that other triplogs reporting water for "several miles along the start of their hike" probably aren't really counting their distance and don't realize that the water ends after the first mile.

While the Nelson trail was in good shape, most of the other trails are in poor condition. The worst was the Salt Flat connector trail, and the second worst was the Verde Rim trail. Surprisingly you will find cows along every trail, including at the top of Pine Mountain itself!

I ran through 90% of my water when I was only halfway through my Saturday loop, likely due to the higher than forecast temperatures, so I struggled to finish the trip.

Takeaways:
The spring fed areas along Nelson trail are very nice, and I was surprised to see all the trout.
Pine Mountain is an enjoyable destination, and there are great views of the entire Mazatzals from the top.
The rest of the trails suffer from significant overgrowth. Some also suffer from not-existingness in sections. There was easily a half mile stretch of Pine Flat trail where I didn't see any evidence of a trail.
For some reason, once you get away from Nelson trail by more than a quarter mile (except Pine Mtn itself), you will only see Junipers, no pine trees.

Driving: Lots of triplogs speak to road conditions. I would say the last 7 miles to the trailhead is rated a high clearance rd. I think 2wd with limited slip differential or else 4wd is helpful due to the rough road. From highway 17 to trailhead took 60 minutes. From trailhead to highway 17 took 56 minutes.
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Isolated

dry Beehouse Canyon Dry Dry

dry Beehouse Spring Dry Dry
I was on the lookout for this spring, but didn't see anything wet.

dry Bishop Spring Dry Dry
No water in this area that I saw, perhaps I didn't go far enough off trail downcanyon?

dry Black Alder Spring Dry Dry
Perhaps I missed the spring, but didn't find anything.

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water 4 out of 5 Nelson Place Spring Gallon + per minute Gallon + per minute
A lifesaver. Collectively the 4 different areas water came out of the ground probably add up to 100 gallons per minute.

dry Willow Spring Dry Dry
Perhaps I missed the spring, but didn't find anything.
_____________________
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Hike Arizona it is full of sharp, pointy, ankle-twisting, HAZmaster crushing ROCKS!!
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  3 archives
Sep 08 2018
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 Guides 264
 Routes 2,797
 Photos 14,494
 Triplogs 5,894

55 male
 Joined Nov 20 1996
 
Nelson - Verde Rim - Salt Flat Loop, AZ 
Nelson - Verde Rim - Salt Flat Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Sep 08 2018
joebartelsTriplogs 5,894
Hiking14.05 Miles 3,054 AEG
Hiking14.05 Miles   7 Hrs   58 Mns   2.21 mph
3,054 ft AEG   1 Hour   37 Mns Break14 LBS Pack
 
Partners partners
BiFrost
The_Eagle
wallyfrack
Reverse of a Jun 08 2013 trip.

Nelson Trail #159
The most enjoyable portion of the day. Cooler in the morning. Sycamore Creek was running fair for a good stretch.

Verde Rim Trail #161
Love the Mazzie + Superstition views. Too warm and humid.

Salt Flat Trail #71
Purposely put this at the end because it's a steep ascent. Done, prefer ascending.

Pine Mountain Verde Rim Loop
Just realized how much I admire this little masterpiece.

Synopsis
Great to hike with other kids in the HAZ neighborhood. Nothing was screaming killer hike with summer temps holding. Always a good hike out in this area. Need to let the drive fade out of memory then hit this in autumn for a change next time.
foliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observation
Autumn Foliage Observation None
no need to falsely trigger the maps
one shrub in the canyon, possibly dying from heat but it was the show
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Light
mostly light, richards geranium, paintbrush and a few others I forget
small swaths of yellows
caltrop lined some of the drive over from I-17

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water 4 out of 5 Little Mesa Tanks 76-100% full 76-100% full
_____________________
- joe
 
Sep 08 2018
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 Routes 93
 Photos 7,758
 Triplogs 1,691

64 male
 Joined Mar 11 2003
 AZ
Nelson - Verde Rim - Salt Flat Loop, AZ 
Nelson - Verde Rim - Salt Flat Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Sep 08 2018
wallyfrackTriplogs 1,691
Hiking14.05 Miles 3,054 AEG
Hiking14.05 Miles   7 Hrs   58 Mns   2.21 mph
3,054 ft AEG   1 Hour   37 Mns Break
 no routes
1st trip
Partners partners
BiFrost
joebartels
The_Eagle
It was eleven years ago that I last hiked Pine Mountain. It was nice to see the change in size of the small pines. The hike started out cool but with a bit of humidity. The trails started to heat up by noon and the clouds didn't provide cover so we took a few breaks in the shade. The trails were rocky at times but my michelin soles held up. It was good to finally hike with Karl rather than running into him at a restaurant, bar, ranch or trail head. It was good to hike with the cruel kids again too. You need a baseline to measure normal behavior against. :lol:
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Light
_____________________
  2 archives
Sep 08 2018
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 Guides 41
 Routes 1,626
 Photos 14,983
 Triplogs 2,760

69 male
 Joined Jan 20 2009
 Far NE Phoenix,
Nelson - Verde Rim - Salt Flat Loop, AZ 
Nelson - Verde Rim - Salt Flat Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Sep 08 2018
The_EagleTriplogs 2,760
Hiking14.14 Miles 3,112 AEG
Hiking14.14 Miles   7 Hrs   56 Mns   2.16 mph
3,112 ft AEG   1 Hour   23 Mns Break14 LBS Pack
 
Partners partners
BiFrost
joebartels
wallyfrack
A CCW re-do of an earlier loop from 2013.

We were shocked on the way in, on the rough part of FR68, to encounter the sheriff & deputy driving the opposite direction. The Sheriff's truck pulled over and we decided to have a friendly conversation with her for a few moments.

The only car at the TH, we started at a comfortable yet humid 63 degrees.

Nelson Trail #159
This one starts you through a jungle of humongous Sycamores to, and through the old "Nelson Place". This is one of my favorite portions of this hike. This area is in need of additional exploration someday. This trail climbs steadily until it meets up the Verde Rim Trail.

Verde Rim Trail #161
This one climbs out of the forest and steeply at times to the exposed rim. The sun and lack of a breeze made it warm in spots. The views make up for it. Not just at the peak, but for all most all of the 6+ miles, great views to the Mazzy's and even the Supes

Views from Pine Mountain.
[ youtube video ]

Still on the Verde Rim Trail...Wally passes, Karl passes, Joe passes, a fawn that pops up from laying 3' from the trail and bolts. I was surprised it still had it's spots this late in the season.

After a relaxing walk along the old FR on Little Mesa past the Little Mesa Tanks, you make the steep and loose drop down the Salt Flat Trail.

Salt Flat Trail #71
Great views to the west of the Bradshaws.

Great hiking with Wally and Karl again...Joe too.

Thanks for driving Karl
 Flora
 Flora [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Antelope Horns
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Little Mesa Tanks

dry Beehouse Canyon Dry Dry

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water 4 out of 5 Little Mesa Tanks 76-100% full 76-100% full
Muddy, but plenty there to filter from

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water less than max Nelson Place Spring Gallon per minute Gallon per minute
As always, plenty to filter from

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Tank Canyon Pools to trickle Pools to trickle
_____________________
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Dave Barry 🦅
  1 archive
Sep 08 2018
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 Guides 4
 Routes 491
 Photos 10,890
 Triplogs 1,257

55 male
 Joined Nov 20 2012
 Phoenix, AZ
Nelson - Verde Rim - Salt Flat Loop, AZ 
Nelson - Verde Rim - Salt Flat Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Sep 08 2018
BiFrostTriplogs 1,257
Hiking14.14 Miles 3,112 AEG
Hiking14.14 Miles   7 Hrs   56 Mns   2.16 mph
3,112 ft AEG   1 Hour   23 Mns Break
 no routes
1st trip
Partners partners
joebartels
The_Eagle
wallyfrack
Previously have hiked some of the shorter loops on Pine Mountain but this time Bruce put together slightly longer one with some new trails at least for me. First we went up the Nelson trail and the spring area and some very large Sycamore's. Trail stays in the canyon through some decent ponderosa forest and a few pools which were probably just runoff but at least one could be year round. Eventually we hit the Verde Rim Trail and the ascent up to Pine Mountain. This was the hottest part of the hike for sure with a bit of humidity added on. We made the summit and had a nice break...Joe picked out a fine spot!

After lunch we continued to follow rim over to the Salt Trail. The trail was uneventful on top but views made up for it especially as it dropped back down to the trail head. Very steep the last mile and would be a chore going up. Back at the vehicle we enjoyed a post hike beverage....sorry Joe I forgot your's :cry:
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  1 archive
Nov 16 2013
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 Guides 13
 Routes 38
 Photos 1,651
 Triplogs 577

60 male
 Joined Nov 15 2005
 Jackson, CA
Salt Flat Trail #71Camp Verde, AZ
Camp Verde, AZ
Hiking avatar Nov 16 2013
toddakTriplogs 577
Hiking17.00 Miles 2,500 AEG
Hiking17.00 Miles   8 Hrs      2.13 mph
2,500 ft AEG
 no routesno photosets
1st trip
Partners none no partners
Nice day wandering some of the less-traveled trails. From Salt Flat trailhead: east on 71, south on 161, west on 159, north on 165 & 159. Trails are rough but for the most part not hard to follow, with good signage at the junctions. The drive in from I-17 to the trailhead is 19 miles and took nearly an hour as the road gets progressively worse, especially after about 10 miles.
_____________________
 
Oct 26 2013
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 Guides 21
 Routes 1,182
 Photos 36,858
 Triplogs 1,570

69 female
 Joined Feb 26 2004
 Phoenix, AZ
Pine Mountain Verde Rim LoopCamp Verde, AZ
Camp Verde, AZ
Hiking avatar Oct 26 2013
tibberTriplogs 1,570
Hiking9.80 Miles 1,875 AEG
Hiking9.80 Miles   7 Hrs   30 Mns   1.96 mph
1,875 ft AEG   2 Hrs   30 Mns Break
 
1st trip
Partners partners
HAZ - Event
BiFrost
Mike_Fels
slowandsteady
What a great loop this more or less is. The less is coming down the Pine Mountain Trail on the west side. In the fall, I would rather do it as an up and back. The trail coming down on the west side isn't much fun though it had its scenic moments.... just too few.

Karl and Kathy got us on the trail around 8:30 AM. It was a brisk but refreshing start. On the way to the TH, (and yes, the road is what it's cracked up to be) we could see strong evidence of fall colors in the canyons and drainages and creek so the excitement built as we got closer to our destination... but not before passing through a herd of deer that had split up (some on each side of the road). And remember Karl, they can't shoot Bambi :) .


The sycamores are HUGE and the leaves were big and turning. This hike starts off with a bang as far as the foilage and then the creek comes into play for quite awhile. I was very pleased as I started sinking into Tibbermode so quickly. The sumac were on fire and in many stages of fall color. The sunlight was hitting them just right and it was hard not to be in awe.

Walking up toward Nelson Spring was interesting. It was flowing substantially and we saw two downed trees that had sizeable leaves growing from their branches. We also noticed several rock walls in this area. And then the creek itself had quite a bit of water. This one area had a couple cool cascades that we had to get photos of and some reflections in the water too.

And then the coup de grace of the hike, though on the way back, the colors were even more intense.... the maples were out in full force :DANCE: and all degrees of color too. We had to get closer so we went off trail to check it out.

Once we hit the Willow Springs intersection, we veered left and soon the guys realized we somehow veered when we should have stayed straight (we all missed it) so we had to backtrack slightly. That's what can happen when you get to gawking. A little ways up this trail we came to some of the more burned section but it was filling in with massive amounts of little pines; in fact too many. It will certainly be a matter of survival of the fittest. Some other trees are also trying to squeeze in. But we all know how greedy pines are about water.

Not too far from the Spring area, we came into another colorful section of the trail with lots of maples in various stages. Here the leaves were much larger that had fallen on the ground so that was nice. We all had to take pictures of each other in this section. We had already done that back at the AZHighways tree.... and we would do it again on the way back cuz the lighting was pretty different.

We had been slowly gaining elevation and though my breathing always get heavier the moment we start any elevation, soon it would start a little more intensely until that last switchback push up to Pine Mtn. It was steep but manageable : rambo : though I stopped twice for about 30 seconds (altho once was to take pics of Humphreys etc). Everyone had hiked ahead of me stopping once to make sure I didn't miss a turn. There is one little false summit before you get to the turn up to Pine Mtn. That is a brief but straight up hike to the summit before you see a giant juniper with golden grass below it.

And as you walk closer to the edge; there it is. THE view :y: ! and more views and more views. Over to your right coming down a mountainside was a see of red too. I have to say those maples photographed much better than they looked. Here we had lunch for about 30 minutes. Kathy brot some great NY apples via their trip to Disneyworld and they were so DELISH! :)

Then it's along the ridge before you start the long haul down on not the best surface (though I originally typed "service" :oplz: ) as it was quite rocky. One of those trail textures that makes you appreciate those smooth city trails. The views are varied due to the burn but there was this one really nice section of junipers that Kathy and I stopped to admire and talk about the burn. You next reach a false bottom not realizing there is still more down. The trail seems to take you down pretty fast and switchbacks are limited.

Eventually (about 2 miles later) and gratefully you reach the Willow Springs intersection where surprisingly (I found this out after loading my route on to HAZ) you still have 700 feet more of down.... but it's over nearly 3 miles. Less than a mile from the intersection, we found ourselves admiring the colors of the trees across (south) Sycamore creek so we went for it. We got up close and personal with the many colored trees :y: and then found ourselves wowed even more as we looked down the bank so we continued and eventually ended up in the dry creek bed. It reminded me very much of Ash Creek Gailuro even though the trees were not as big and as massive. We had a great time making our way down and doing some boulder hopping.

Meanwhile the boys were ahead of us though we knew not where since we continued to admire our surroundings. We did get out of the creek when we found them toward the tail end of the color in the creek bed. Mike pointed out one particularly red maple so I grabbed a photo of that before we continued thinking I finally can come out :pray: of Tibbermode (ya, right!). Well that didn't happen as I could see reflections in the creek and the sun continued to highlight the color of the trees. Oh, we also saw an apple tree.

I noticed the rock walls more this time than I did on the way up. I think because I was taking video I missed the amount of rock walls. We did encounter a nice black angus bull and I jokingly said "well at least we don't have red on".... but both Karl and I had red scarfs. Anyway, there was lots of sumac between us and the bull so I was comfortable with that anyway. The boys pointed out the giant BS along the trail.

We proceeded on though I ended up down at the creek to try and catch some of the glowing reflections :D . It's a pretty steep bank coming out of there so I had to make a bit of a run to get out. Also on the way back we noticed the steep eroded bank that the trail goes on. It is eroding quite a bit so the trail may have to go higher and higher.

Well as you can see, I had another louzy day on the trail.... happens to me so often, ha! We had some beverages at the now pretty much vacant TH before Karl drove us out. It is incredibly scenic though rough ride especially at this time of day. We stopped to pick up a piece of pie (peach in my case) to go. I so enjoy hiking with Kathy (she laughs at all my jokes).

I shot 30 minutes of video but the first one's quality is not the best due to coming in and out of light causing flickering issues off and on. The other two are fine.

Video 1 http://youtu.be/pWfovRpxnZI
Video 2 http://youtu.be/7N7B7Ez49UI
Video 3 http://youtu.be/MztFTOTkmCQ
 Meteorology
 Meteorology [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Fire Burn Area & Recovery
foliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observation
Autumn Foliage Observation Substantial
Sumac OH MY!, maples, sycamore, oak

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water 4 out of 5 Nelson Place Spring Gallon + per minute Gallon + per minute
lots!
_____________________
For me, sometimes it's just as much about the journey as the destination.
Oh, and once in awhile, don't forget to look back at the trail you've traveled.
 
Jun 08 2013
avatar

 Guides 264
 Routes 2,797
 Photos 14,494
 Triplogs 5,894

55 male
 Joined Nov 20 1996
 
Salt Flat - Verde Rim - Nelson - Loop, AZ 
Salt Flat - Verde Rim - Nelson - Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jun 08 2013
joebartelsTriplogs 5,894
Hiking17.80 Miles 3,520 AEG
Hiking17.80 Miles   10 Hrs   27 Mns   2.12 mph
3,520 ft AEG   2 Hrs   3 Mns Break14 LBS Pack
 
The master trip planner assembled this Pine Loop. While this area is most enjoyable in Apr/Oct it gets pushed aside in the plethora of options available in those prime months.

11 year old memories served up a cow patty swamp and a torched forest.

Old memories faded fast starting off at 67 degrees in June. Within the first couple steps I could smell the pines... mmm

Salt Flat Trail #71
The first 0.1mi is either difficult to find or we were blind. It is ridiculous steep and not very well designed. However it gets the job done and offers nice views heading up.

We headed out to finish off Coldwater #27. Luckily we scratched that idea before jumping off the diving board of death...

Verde Rim Trail #161
The north end was better maintained and used than anticipated. The popular middle section ( #12 to #14 ) looks heavily used. SW of #14 gets worse by the step ending in a cairn hunt. Killer views of the Mazzies.

Nelson Trail #159 ( Bishop Creek )
There is a good sized area recovering from the fire. Which I thought was early 2000's but could only find for 1989. Nevertheless it is recovering well with six foot saplings. The trunks of which seem much thicker than the saplings up on Secret Mountain.

After broiling on #161 this trail was a lifesaver. The unburned areas are the best pine stands in the wilderness ( that I have seen ). While the temps didn't drop a degree the intermittent shade was refreshing. I think sound therapy, hearing wind, in the pines factored in too!

Nelson Trail #159 ( Sycamore Creek )
Delightful, glad we ended on this note. While I enjoy the pines more on Bishop it's easy to see why most probably hike this and go home.

Synopsis
It's a good hike. High temps and lack of sleep do not mix well.
 Fauna
 Fauna [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Ladybug beetle
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Little Mesa Tanks
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Light

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water 4 out of 5 Nelson Place Spring Gallon + per minute Gallon + per minute
Enough to get the bone dry creek flowing and pooling up.

dry Willow Spring Dry Dry
Assumed dry as we couldn't find anything among the bone dry scene. Bruce walked completely around the coordinates.
_____________________
- joe
 
Jun 08 2013
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 Guides 41
 Routes 1,626
 Photos 14,983
 Triplogs 2,760

69 male
 Joined Jan 20 2009
 Far NE Phoenix,
Salt Flat - Verde Rim - Nelson - Loop, AZ 
Salt Flat - Verde Rim - Nelson - Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jun 08 2013
The_EagleTriplogs 2,760
Hiking18.87 Miles 3,955 AEG
Hiking18.87 Miles   10 Hrs   27 Mns   2.25 mph
3,955 ft AEG   2 Hrs   3 Mns Break15 LBS Pack
 
A little over 3 years since I was up around the Pine Mountain Wilderness. I enjoy this area.

Decided to Loop up some trails I had not been on before, and hit the Rim for the views.

Started by trying to find the Salt Flat Trail #71. The TH sign points left to nowhere. We were able to stumble on the steep loose grade about 50 yds up the hill. This climb is not Dog Friendly (or Joe Friendly for that matter). This trail meets up with a little used FR up top of Little Mesa, and takes you past Little Mesa Tanks.

The route we were shooting for, had us following a FR over to FR68 to check out where Dugas Road (FR68) drops off the Rim and makes the 6 mile trip to the Verde River.

The next plan was to try and get down the Cold Water Trail #37 from the South. We'd come in from the North last year and did not hit this portion of the so called trail. Better judgement prevailed and we nixed this 3 mile portion of the hike.

Back to pick up the Verde Rim Trail #161. Here you get some of the best views around for the 7+ miles you are on the this trail. About half way across, we simultaneously spot some sort of snake quickly climbing a tree. We both looked for him in the 12' tree, but could not find him. A few minutes later he was going from tree to tree at lightning speed! We never even got close to a photo of it. This snake was about the diameter of a thumb and about 3' long.

A short side trip up Pine Mountain and we decided to have lunch up top. Gnats and Ladybugs made it less than relaxing. The farther south you get past the Pine Mountain Trail #14, the more obtuse the trail gets.

Now we start picking up some welcome shade on the Nelson Trail #159. With basically all the climbing done for the day, we are on the home stretch.

On the Nelson Trail, closer to the TH, we spent lots of time taking pictures around the old "Nelson Place".

It's quite lush in this area.

I got to experience my first flat on a hike, and the 13 year old spare tire, that was used for the first time, worked admirably. My PFinder now has new rubber around and is ready go 'splorin' some more.

Video Fodder === :next: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ39KtQAo0E

dry Beehouse Canyon Dry Dry
Dry at the intersection with the Nelson Trail

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water less than max Little Mesa Tanks 51-75% full 51-75% full
Filterable water

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water less than max Nelson Place Spring Gallon per minute Gallon per minute
Lots of areas to filter here.
There is water that comes out of the ground and follows a small trough.
Ultimately pools into Sycamore Creek. Water in Sycamore appears to be perennial.

dry Willow Spring Dry Dry
Walked around the location in an attempt to find. No sign of a spring and it was dry in the area.
_____________________
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Dave Barry 🦅
 
Sep 23 2001
avatar

 Routes 36
 Photos 2,658
 Triplogs 1,347

67 male
 Joined Jul 28 2004
 Scottsdale, AZ
Pine Mtn from FR 68G TH - Verde RimCamp Verde, AZ
Camp Verde, AZ
Hiking avatar Sep 23 2001
mazatzalTriplogs 1,347
Hiking9.00 Miles 750 AEG
Hiking9.00 Miles
750 ft AEG
 no routesno photosets
1st trip
Partners partners
guitar
Drove to end of FR 68G to try an alternate way to Pine Mtn. This area was burned worse than the area around the classic Pine Mtn loop but some nice views from this approach.
_____________________
  2 archives
average hiking speed 2.15 mph

WARNING! Hiking and outdoor related sports can be dangerous. Be responsible and prepare for the trip. Study the area you are entering and plan accordingly. Dress for the current and unexpected weather changes. Take plenty of water. Never go alone. Make an itinerary with your plan(s), route(s), destination(s) and expected return time. Give your itinerary to trusted family and/or friends.

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