username
X
password
register
for free!
help
ArticlesGuidesRoutes
 
Photosets
 
 Comments
triplogs   photosets   labels comments more
West Webber Trail #228 - 16 members in 55 triplogs have rated this an average 3.9 ( 1 to 5 best )
1, 2, 3  Next
55 triplogs
login for filter options
Aug 30 2025
avatar

 Guides 41
 Routes 1,626
 Photos 14,983
 Triplogs 2,760

69 male
 Joined Jan 20 2009
 Far NE Phoenix,
West Webber - Turkey Springs Balloon, AZ 
West Webber - Turkey Springs Balloon, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Aug 30 2025
The_EagleTriplogs 2,760
Hiking10.92 Miles 2,419 AEG
Hiking10.92 Miles   4 Hrs   50 Mns   2.41 mph
2,419 ft AEG      18 Mns Break3 LBS Pack
 
1st trip
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
I've been wanting to get over here to check out the damage from last years WEST fire. I was going to do it yesterday to avoid the plethora of Labor Day monkeys up on Milk Ranch Point. I knew that the rain yesterday morning would have made the Geronimo trail a slip-fest, so today was the day.

On the drive in, I saw a pride of deer, a gaggle of elk, and a school of turkeys. It was in the 60s with a breeze to start, and there was one other car at the trailhead. To begin, you are on the Highline/AZT for a quarter mile through a pretty section of trail after crossing Webber Creek.

---

Geronimo Trail #240

I am not a fan of this old road, which is now a trail. It's washed out, rocky, and just not fun, but it's a means to get to the good stuff.

---

West Webber Trail #228

I'm happy to say that the maples, oaks, and pines on West Webber appear to be mainly unscathed in the lower elevations. It should be a good autumn color hike this year.

The burn damage was much more evident after the intersection of West Webber and Milk Ranch Point West. This is also where the elevation gain ramps up a bit. While going up, I passed the only hiker/runner I saw all day, who was headed down.

I had a 1.5-mile road walk on FR218 to get to the Turkey Spring Trail. It being a holiday weekend, I expected a zoo. The first half of my walk was pleasant and quiet. The closer I got to Dickerson Flat, not so much. There were 20+ RVs and campers, all with ORVs, motorcycles, etc. Luckily, this is where I hit the Turkey Springs Trail.

---

Turkey Springs Trail #217

The damage on Turkey Springs is a lot more evident, especially toward the top right after you drop off the edge. On the bright side, it opened up the views.

I met the runner again as I was going down Turkey Springs; he was coming up. After a little conversation, he mentioned that he was scouting out part of the route for the Mogollon Monster, which is being run next week (101.8 miles - 16,544 AEG).

The lower sections of the Turkey Springs Trail are in decent shape, both tread-wise and burn-wise. I'd forgotten about the nice rim views here.

I passed up a scenic rock outcropping that I've noted in previous hikes. I had no interest in attempting to climb it.

Further down, I checked out the flowing Turkey Spring, washed off my face, and soaked my hat.

From here on out, I was on the same track that I had headed in on. It was a shady, breezy 82 degrees to finish.

So to sum up,
West Webber still should be an excellent choice for Maples and Oaks.
Turkey Springs has Oaks in the upper stretches and they should be mostly good. This trail took most of it's fire damage in the upper half after dropping off the rim.
 Fauna
 Fauna [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Merriam's Turkey
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Turkey Spring
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Isolated


water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max South Fork of West Webber Creek Pools to trickle Pools to trickle
water report recorded in the field on our app Route Scout

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water less than max Turkey Spring Gallon per minute Gallon per minute

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Webber Creek @ Highline Light flow Light flow
_____________________
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Dave Barry 🦅
 
Jun 17 2023
avatar

 Guides 99
 Routes 1,484
 Photos 16,072
 Triplogs 1,374

male
 Joined Jan 07 2017
 Fountain Hills,
Geronimo Turkey Milk, AZ 
Geronimo Turkey Milk, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jun 17 2023
DixieFlyerTriplogs 1,374
Hiking10.57 Miles 2,400 AEG
Hiking10.57 Miles   5 Hrs   33 Mns   2.28 mph
2,400 ft AEG      55 Mns Break
 
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
This is a fun hike that I haven't done in about 4 years, so I decided to head up to the Rim and enjoy some nice weather and do this hike again.

We did a lasso loop hike with the loop done in a CCW fashion.

It was a tough climb up to the Rim, but not too bad. A highlight of the hike was stopping at the rock climbing that is about 3/4 of the way up the Turkey Springs Trail. There are great views on the rock outcropping and it is fun to scramble around on the rocks.

We took a break at a nice campsite up on Milk Ranch Point before heading back. On the way back we took the West Webber Trail all the way back down instead of taking the West Webber-Geronimo Connector like I usually do.

It was another fun day up on the Rim!
 Fauna
 Fauna [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Horned Lizard

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Webber Creek @ Highline Light flow Light flow

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max West Webber Creek Light flow Light flow
_____________________
Civilization is a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there
  1 archive
Jun 13 2023
avatar

 Routes 17
 Photos 142
 Triplogs 10

45 male
 Joined Jun 26 2017
 Payson, Arizona
Geronimo - Turkey Springs - West Webber, AZ 
Geronimo - Turkey Springs - West Webber, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jun 13 2023
PaysonRealtorAZTriplogs 10
Hiking12.76 Miles 2,726 AEG
Hiking12.76 Miles
2,726 ft AEG
 
1st trip
I started at the Geronimo Trailhead and took the Geronimo Trail to a loop hike, starting with Turkey Springs, then FR 218, and back down West Webber Creek Trail.

I had trouble finding the trail around Turkey Springs, but ultimately was able to get back on it by keeping close the tracks in the official guide. Great views from the Turkey Springs but it was a real grind. I've hiked a bunch of these trails to the Rim, including the Babe Haught Trail just a few days before, but it seemed harder.

I'm glad that I did the West Webber Creek Trail coming back down. It has a lot of shade and it was great to have that on my way back to the trailhead.

I've seen it said that the West Webber Creek Trail is great in fall, and while I hiked in summer, I can totally see where it would be a great fall trail. The vegetation lends itself to that.
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Isolated
Some Columbines by the creek and probably a few others in spots that I didn't pay as much attention too. The biggest thing was that the Manzanitas were flowering, particularly near the top of the Rim on the Turkey Springs Trail.
_____________________
  1 archive
Oct 10 2022
avatar

 Guides 41
 Routes 1,626
 Photos 14,983
 Triplogs 2,760

69 male
 Joined Jan 20 2009
 Far NE Phoenix,
Milk Ranch Point West - West Webber, AZ 
Milk Ranch Point West - West Webber, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Oct 10 2022
The_EagleTriplogs 2,760
Hiking7.31 Miles 1,289 AEG
Hiking7.31 Miles   3 Hrs   6 Mns   2.46 mph
1,289 ft AEG      8 Mns Break12 LBS Pack
 
1st trip
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
I thought I'd try this track to see if there was potentially some early color. Hiking these trails in the past, I knew there are lots of maples and oaks, with a smattering of AZ Walnut.

I was surprised there were 4 cars at the TH when I arrived. 6 when I left. I never saw another person all day except for the TH.

Geronimo Trail #240 is not a favorite of mine. It's an old road that has eroded in many spots. The only plus on this trail is the views to the rim.

At the 2 mile mark, you hit the BSA TR - Milk Ranch Point West Trail. There is no sign at the Geronimo Trail. The trail is tight in spots but easy to follow. There are about a dozen logs over the trail to where it meets the West Webber Trail. All but the last one on way up are easy to go over or under. I asked for color and I got it. Green is a color. Less than 1% has turned.

At the intersection with West Webber I made the decision to head down West Webber instead of continuing to the rim. There was a light rain and thunder crackling overhead and nearby.

West Webber #228 is in much better shape. I really love this trail and would do it much more frequently, if it didn't require the Geronimo from below for access. Lots of old growth makes for a thick canopy.

Back on Geronimo for my return to the TH, footing was slippery from all the rain. One more reason to love Geronimo.

Give this track 2 weeks and the colors should be poppin'
 Flora
 Flora [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Smooth Sumac

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max South Fork of West Webber Creek Light flow Light flow
_____________________
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Dave Barry 🦅
 
Sep 18 2021
avatar

 Guides 41
 Routes 1,626
 Photos 14,983
 Triplogs 2,760

69 male
 Joined Jan 20 2009
 Far NE Phoenix,
Up and over X2 on Milk Ranch Point, AZ 
Up and over X2 on Milk Ranch Point, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Sep 18 2021
The_EagleTriplogs 2,760
Hiking16.89 Miles 3,991 AEG
Hiking16.89 Miles   7 Hrs   59 Mns   2.30 mph
3,991 ft AEG      38 Mns Break14 LBS Pack
 
1st trip
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
I got dropped off at the Pine TH to start this hike. I hadn't been on Donahue or Turkey Springs in quite awhile, so I worked up a route that would hit both. I also like the views and rock scramble of the East Rim, so my route was set.

I followed a cow elk for awhile up the Highline Trail, until she got bored.

Up Donahue, it's mostly in good shape. Like many trails this year, it is starting to fill in. The biggest problem for me, was the extended gnat season. The pesky little SOB's

Down West Webber for the first time. The top portion of this trail is a steep one. This trail is loaded with maple that should explode with their fall color next month. There's also plenty of old growth Ponderosa. Very little light gets through to this trail, so no need to worry about the orb cooking you. There is some downfall on the trail, but it's easily avoided.

Up on Turkey Springs trail. For a trail that's less than a mile away, it has an entirely different feel. There is very little protection from the sun. It's mostly manzanita and juniper. What it does give you is vast views of the rim. Up top, I had my lunch with a view.

I headed across Dickerson Flat to the upper TH of The East Rim Trail. This is all off trail and there a lot of prickly locust to try and navigate through. I was lucky enough to find an old FR and then a game trail for awhile. But it got thick after that.

On the East Rim Trail, I really love the upper half of this trail/route. You have the great views and I love the rock scrambling. The lower half drags on a bit, because it's steep and slippery.

The squirrels were having a great time all day with their nuts.
There is a bumper crop of acorns this year.
 Flora
 Flora [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Fetid-Goosefoot
 Fauna
 Fauna [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Horned Lizard

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Milk Ranch Point - Webber Tank 26-50% full 26-50% full
Muddy

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water less than max Pine Creek @ Bearfoot Trail Medium flow Medium flow

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max South Fork of West Webber Creek Light flow Light flow
water report recorded in the field on our app Route Scout
_____________________
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Dave Barry 🦅
 
Aug 19 2021
avatar

 Guides 116
 Routes 337
 Photos 11,399
 Triplogs 894

63 male
 Joined Dec 20 2010
 Sunnyslope, PHX
Turkey Springs Trail #217Payson, AZ
Payson, AZ
Hiking avatar Aug 19 2021
kingsnakeTriplogs 894
Hiking6.59 Miles 1,560 AEG
Hiking6.59 Miles   3 Hrs   7 Mns   2.11 mph
1,560 ft AEG
 
1st trip
Linked   linked  
Partners none no partners
A loop of FR 218, Trail #217 and Trail #228 is 5.6 miles and 1,530 ft. AEG. You can either hike from the top of the Rim, on Milk Ranch Point, as I did, or from the bottom, at Camp Geronimo’s front gate. The latter adds 5.0 miles, 700 AEG, in & out to Turkey Spring.

Dickenson Flat, opposite the west end of Trail #217, would make a great trailhead, but I opted to park 1½ miles south on FR 218 at an unnamed tank. (The better to warm up my legs before tackling Trail #217.) At the north end of Dickenson Flat, I turned right onto decommissioned FR 9381F.

150 yds. past the FR 9381F vehicle gate, there is a sign for Trail #217, which splits to the left. The half mile of Trail #217 in the Coconino National Forest is indeed forested, with decent shade. A barbed wire fence and wire loop gate marked the boundary with the Tonto National Forest. 🌲

Past the fence, Trail #217 began descending in earnest, mostly through a manzanita-strewn old burn area. In 2007, Trail #217 was reported to be vague and in poor shape, but it is now well-defined, though ankle-breaker rocks and slippery gravel-over-slick surfaces require caution.

The top half of the Trail #217 descent has great views along the Mogollon Rim, which were enhanced on my hike by the contrast of many puffy clouds. A ¼ mile past the barbed wire gate, on the south side of the trail, is a freestanding rock formation with a balanced rock. If you are careful, you can climb the 30-40 ft. to the top. I saved my energy.

The final ¼ mile, Trail #217 becomes deeply-rutted jeep trail. I’m not sure if the erosion is recent, but I would not be surprised if it was: Nearby Payson has had over 11″ of rain during this summer’s record monsoon season. ☔️

After 3½ total miles, I turned off Trail #217 onto Trail #228, which drops slightly to a small, unnamed creek. I found a good tree stump, sitting down to a lunch of vinegar chips, gorp and gas station murderwich. Today’s hiking beer was Chimay Grande Réserve.

As it heads up canyon, Trail #228 crosses the small, unnamed, creek several times. I was always able to cross it dry. The creek’s low volume flow was loud enough I could hear it 50 ft. upslope.

Trail #228 had consistent, quality, shade it’s whole length. Between the creek and the overhead cover, the ground was moister. As a result, below the Rim, Trail #228 had fewer flowers and much more fungi than Trail #217. 🍄

The first mile of Trail #228 climbs 450 ft., while the next ¾ of a mile climbs a heavily switchbacked 800 ft. Just below the top of the Rim, was an outcropping painted “HAVE”, with what looked like a cave opening. Turned out to just be a crack filled with rocks and leaf litter. From the top of the climb, it was only ⅓ of a mile back my wife at the unnamed tank.

Overall, I enjoyed the whole loop, but especially Trail #228. I look forward to doing it again in a few years, if I am not too old. Or fat.

Hike Video: https://vimeo.com/590571178
 Culture
 Culture [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Cag Shot  Graffiti
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Isolated
Mullein, Wheeler's thistle and, especially primrose along FR 218. Pineywoods geranium most common flower, found near top of cliff band on both trails. Western dayflower, Mexican silene, Stansbury's cliffrose, penstemon, Arizona thistle. Lots of molds and mushrooms, especially on Trail #228, which is darker and damper. (Only one I could identify was orange jelly.)

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water 4 out of 5 Dickenson Flat Tank 76-100% full 76-100% full
_____________________
http://prestonm.com : Everyone's enjoyment of the outdoors is different and should be equally honored.
 
Oct 09 2020
avatar

 Guides 1
 Routes 447
 Photos 4,407
 Triplogs 938

68 male
 Joined Mar 09 2012
 Gilbert, AZ
Geronimo Turkey Milk, AZ 
Geronimo Turkey Milk, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Oct 09 2020
rayhustonTriplogs 938
Hiking10.06 Miles 2,288 AEG
Hiking10.06 Miles   5 Hrs   11 Mns   2.16 mph
2,288 ft AEG      31 Mns Break
 
1st trip
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
Lunch at the Rim again. I'm beginning to like this very much.

I used a track from @DixieFlyer for this hike. It was my second time hiking from the Geronimo Trailhead, the first time hiking Geronimo, Turkey, a portion of West Webber and a BSA trail (Milk Ranch Point West). I hiked the loop in a CCW direction.

I didn't care for the the extra baggage of the Geronimo trail, but you need it if you want to hike this loop from the Geronimo TH. I think it would be a better loop if started from Milk Ranch Rd.

I very much enjoyed the Turkey trail. It's a good track, has outstanding views of the Mogollon Rim on the way up and is a great workout, getting steeper as you approach the rim. I stopped for lunch at a large rock outcropping about a third of a mile from the top. If I had turned around there, it would have been a worthy hike. I continued on to Milk Ranch Road, headed south towards the West Webber trail and then down West Webber.

Webber is also a very nice track, steep at the top but with reasonably good footing. I wasn't aware of it at the time, but the track I borrowed departs from the West Webber trail at the intersection with the BSA trail mentioned earlier and follows the BSA track back to the Geronimo trail. I decided to stay on the track I had. The BSA trail was actually pretty cool, a little overgrown in places, but fun. You might find some nice fall colors there in another week or two. Since I started late (11:20ish), I was in the shade the entire way down.

I liked this loop a lot. I will more than likely return to give it another go. There were a couple of missed opportunities: I want to climb the rock outcropping where I ate lunch and I want to see the rest of West Webber. As it was, it was a very fun hike on a great day.
_____________________
  1 archive
Sep 26 2020
avatar

 Guides 41
 Routes 1,626
 Photos 14,983
 Triplogs 2,760

69 male
 Joined Jan 20 2009
 Far NE Phoenix,
Red Rock - West Webber - East Rim, AZ 
Red Rock - West Webber - East Rim, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Sep 26 2020
The_EagleTriplogs 2,760
Hiking17.27 Miles 3,511 AEG
Hiking17.27 Miles   8 Hrs   29 Mns   2.28 mph
3,511 ft AEG      55 Mns Break14 LBS Pack
 
1st trip
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
Red Rock Springs Trail #294
A 1 mile/600' climb from the TH to the Highline Trail. The trail is in decent shape. I checked out the spring and kicked up a few elk. The spring box was empty and the spring area was mainly just muddy.

Highline Trail #31
A roller coaster over to the Geronimo Trail with nice views to the rim. The trail is starting to get a tad overgrown in spots

Geronimo Trail #240
Not my favorite, being on a rocky road, but at least it's mostly shaded. Where the West Fork of Webber crosses the trail, there in a filterable flow. I also checked out Turkey Spring which had a strong flow from the pipe.

West Webber #228
This was the the reason I did this hike. I was hoping for a little early color and that's exactly what I got. This trail is just pretty. Maples, Oaks, Walnut, Grape and a trickling creek. The forest is thick and the trail is a lung buster, gaining 1,400' in 2 miles. This trail should start having some nice color in a couple of weeks.

East Rim Trail #7
After some lunch at a favorite spot, I did a bit of an off trail to get over to the East Rim Trail. This is another fun little route/scramble that the Boy Scouts put together some time ago. This one gets you slowly down the east rim of Pine Canyon and drops 1,200' in a mile to the Pine Canyon Trail.

A fun little hike in great weather. I did not see a single person all day
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Turkey Spring

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Pine Spring Dripping Dripping
water report recorded in the field on our app Route Scout In a pinch you could get some clean water out of this

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max South Fork of West Webber Creek Light flow Light flow
water report recorded in the field on our app Route Scout Plenty of pools to filter from

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water less than max Turkey Spring Gallon per minute Gallon per minute
water report recorded in the field on our app Route Scout
_____________________
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Dave Barry 🦅
  1 archive
Sep 19 2020
avatar

 Routes 268
 Photos 2,969
 Triplogs 541

66 male
 Joined Aug 16 2009
 Mesa,AZ
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ 
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Sep 19 2020
hikerdwTriplogs 541
Hiking14.26 Miles 3,117 AEG
Hiking14.26 Miles   6 Hrs   1 Min   2.70 mph
3,117 ft AEG      44 Mns Break
 
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
First did this loop back in 2015, in a CW direction, this trip we hiked it CCW. With the warmer temps CCW would be my preference.

The Red Rock Springs Trail Head is a disaster. Trash of the worse kind everywhere. Some people should be banned from any kind of outdoor activity.

Lots of ankle busting rocks on the Red Rock Springs trail but a nice warmup.

Highline trail is in nice shape.

Geronimo has its good and bad but overall a nice trail.

We hiked the West Webber Connector trail which I really enjoyed. Would have been even nicer with water running in the creek.

West Webber is a climb. The switchbacks allowed it to be less painful.

Donahue down, going in the right direction, lots of rocks.

Back on the Highline to close this one out.

Really nice hike once your out of the trailhead. Crossed paths with two hikers and four trail runners so solitude was nice. Temps were a little on the warm side but not bad. Nice miles and AEG.
_____________________
Expect to self rescue
 
Aug 08 2020
avatar

 Guides 99
 Routes 1,484
 Photos 16,072
 Triplogs 1,374

male
 Joined Jan 07 2017
 Fountain Hills,
Geronimo Turkey Milk, AZ 
Geronimo Turkey Milk, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Aug 08 2020
DixieFlyerTriplogs 1,374
Hiking11.00 Miles 2,559 AEG
Hiking11.00 Miles   5 Hrs   4 Mns   2.43 mph
2,559 ft AEG      32 Mns Break
 
I was once again looking to escape the heat of the valley, and decided to head back to the Rim Country. This time, I did a lollipop loop hike starting from the Geronimo TH and going up to Milk Ranch Point.

We did the loop CCW by going up on the Turkey Trail and coming back down on the West Webber Trail.

You'll get a good workout on the ascent up the Turkey Trail -- about 2/3 of the way up we stopped and climbed up on a cool rock outcropping that has some great views.

The trails were generally in good shape, although the West Webber Trail is getting a little overgrown in places, mainly with some small maple trees and some sumac.

The drive in on the Control Road and the forest road leading to the Boy Scout Camp were both in good shape -- most any vehicle could easily drive it. I wish that the western part of Rim Road 300 was in similar condition!
 Culture
 Culture [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Bridge  Point
_____________________
Civilization is a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there
  1 archive
Sep 02 2019
avatar

 Guides 187
 Routes 989
 Photos 12,068
 Triplogs 864

72 male
 Joined Jun 27 2015
 Tucson, Arizona
Webber Turkey Spring Loop, AZ 
Webber Turkey Spring Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Sep 02 2019
markthurman53Triplogs 864
Hiking13.41 Miles 2,619 AEG
Hiking13.41 Miles   7 Hrs   13 Mns   2.43 mph
2,619 ft AEG   1 Hour   42 Mns Break15 LBS Pack
 
1st trip
Partners none no partners
After a month of not hiking I decided to head up to Payson for a couple days. Heading up there on Labor day turned out to be a good idea, Started out of Tucson at 0500, there was no traffic coming out of Phoenix and the drive to the trail head at Webber Creek was also fairly easy, with the exception of a few crazies that think the control Road is a place to see how fast their off road vehicles can take that road. Got a late start at 0900. Amazingly the two days of hiking here I did not see one other person on the trail.

Started out on the Highline Trail and after .25 miles turned on to the Geronimo Trail, which is actually just an old road for the most part. The fun began at the West Webber Trail. I would really of preferred to do this a bit earlier because by 1000 it was getting a little warm and humid for this ascent. This trail was in good condition but it is steep. After a few standing breaks I finally made it to the top. The walk along Milk Ranch Road to the Turkey Spring trail was easy going after the climb up but due to the lack of shade it was hot. Dickenson Flat Tank had a bit of water in it but didn't look too appetizing. The grass growing around it in the meadow looked like it was just freshly mowed. Do they still run cattle up here or is this just deer and elk?

I thought that at the Turkey Spring Trail Head it would be all downhill but there is a small hill to climb up first. It isn't much of a hill but it is up none the less and when your expecting down it was kind of frustrating. Funny how when you're hot and tired how you can make a mountain out of a molehill. I took my lunch break just over the hill, didn't want to start out on an uphill plus there was a slight breeze there. Had a Subway Italian BMT for lunch and I am still amazed how much better those are when you are hiking, beats the heck out of that healthy hiking trail stuff I usually have. Started down the Turkey Spring Trail refreshed and ready to go. This trail is a lot more exposed to the sun due to the lack of trees on the upper end but it was downhill so it was tolerable. The views to the north of the Mogollon rim were spectacular along this trail. I even spotted the rock up on the rim to the north that me and my wife spent some time on years ago with all of the Payson area laid out in front of us. Good memories. This is another nice trail and I would definitely rather go up the West Webber and down this one. The west Webber does a lot more switchbacks so the grade is milder and there is more canopy to shield the sun.

I still had time when I got back to the Geronimo Trail so I took it east to Webber Creek. This was kind of a ho hum trail along an old road for the most part. The last .1 miles to the creek was a trail. There was a trail that I noticed every so often that seemed to be paralleling the road, I believe this trail starts at the Campground in Webber Canyon Campground. I will have to check this out on another trip. Made it to Webber creek refilled my canteen and headed back. I had plans to hike further up the East Webber Creek Trail but time was running out. Should of left Tucson at 0300 like I originally planned. The East Webber Creek Trail looks like it is an actual Trail.

Got back to Payson about 1700 and boy what a zoo. Traffic on the 260 was backed up for miles making the turn onto 87 south to Phoenix. Lucky for me I was heading East on the 260 so there was no traffic issues. The trick is to know what everybody is doing and do the opposite. Felt good to get out hiking again after a month of idleness. The last month I have been dealing with SS and medicare. working with them is like pushing a chain up the Turkey Spring Trail. I had two days where I barely thought about them.
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Dickenson Flat Tank

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Dickenson Flat Tank 1-25% full 1-25% full

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max East Webber Creek Light flow Light flow

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Webber Creek @ Highline Light flow Light flow
_____________________
 
Aug 03 2019
avatar

 Guides 13
 Routes 38
 Photos 1,651
 Triplogs 577

60 male
 Joined Nov 15 2005
 Jackson, CA
Pine Canyon Trail #26Payson, AZ
Payson, AZ
Hiking avatar Aug 03 2019
toddakTriplogs 577
Hiking17.00 Miles 4,500 AEG
Hiking17.00 Miles   9 Hrs   30 Mns   1.79 mph
4,500 ft AEG
 no routes
Partners none no partners
From the north end: down PCT > up ERT > across Milk Ranch mesa > down WWT > up TT > return. East Rim is a bold little route, very fun, saw a mama cinnamon and 2 cubs on the mesa, several small flowing creeks along WW, refreshing thunderstorm on the way out.
_____________________
 
Jun 08 2019
avatar

 Guides 73
 Routes 176
 Photos 10,174
 Triplogs 2,324

46 male
 Joined Sep 08 2006
 
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ 
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jun 08 2019
JimTriplogs 2,324
Hiking17.00 Miles 3,467 AEG
Hiking17.00 Miles   8 Hrs   20 Mns   2.35 mph
3,467 ft AEG   1 Hour   6 Mns Break10 LBS Pack
 no routes
1st trip
_____________________
🍭
  2 archives
Jun 08 2019
avatar

 Guides 110
 Routes 2,246
 Photos 8,982
 Triplogs 2,600

45 female
 Joined Dec 24 2007
 Ahwatukee, AZ
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ 
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jun 08 2019
LindaAnnTriplogs 2,600
Hiking17.06 Miles 3,467 AEG
Hiking17.06 Miles   8 Hrs   20 Mns   2.36 mph
3,467 ft AEG   1 Hour   6 Mns Break
 
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
Got started a little after 9:00am and headed up Red Rock Springs trail. The trail is easy enough to follow, but lots of round rocks, which slows travel a bit. Once we reached Highline, we headed east to Geronimo. Surprisingly clear views in all directions, despite the various fires burning around the state. We could just barely see a little smoke from the Coldwater fire, and really none from the Mountain fire. Took a short snack break near the junction with Geronimo, then continued on our way. Just after Camp Geronimo, we ended up on the Boy Scouts Geronimo-West Webber Connector; we started to backtrack, then decided to just stick with that trail since it parallels West Webber anyway. Lots of great maples through this section, and plenty of shade. We reached West Webber just before the steep switchbacks started, and headed up. This part was a bit of a slog for me, but I kept my complaining to a minimum. Once up top, we decided to head out to the edge of Milk Ranch Point before heading down Donahue. We followed one the forest roads out to the eastern-southeastern edge and found some shaded rocks to sit on for lunch. Once there, we could see directly south, and could just barely make out the start of the smoke plume from the Woodbury fire, but we couldn't tell for sure where it was located. After we ate, we headed back over to the Donahue Trail and make our way down off the Rim. Somewhere along here, Jim actually complained about the heat--I was very confused. Once back on Highline, we headed east back towards Red Rock Springs, and back down to the car, finishing up by 5:30. By late afternoon, the smoke from the Coldwater fire had increased noticeably, but all the smoke was headed east. On the drive home, the smoke from the Woodbury fire increased a lot too, and we could finally tell in which part of the Superstitions it was burning. Nice day and loop, with great weather. Saw no other hikers all day, but a few RZRs up top, which was kind of annoying since they don't seem to understand that roads marked closed to motorized vehicles actually includes them too.
 Flora
 Flora [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Bigtooth Maple
 Meteorology
 Meteorology [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Fire - Wildfire
_____________________
Stop crying and just go do the hike.
  3 archives
Jun 08 2019
avatar

 Guides 12
 Routes 192
 Photos 863
 Triplogs 356

42 male
 Joined Nov 30 2015
 Phoenix, AZ
East Webber loop, AZ 
East Webber loop, AZ
 
Run/Jog avatar Jun 08 2019
ShatteredArmTriplogs 356
Run/Jog28.70 Miles 5,400 AEG
Run/Jog28.70 Miles   10 Hrs   57 Mns   2.62 mph
5,400 ft AEG
 
1st trip
Next in my backlog of "crazy adventures that I'm fine with only doing once" (this backlog goes back years) - the one I'm calling "The old maps say East Webber trail goes all the way to the rim."

Logically, we figured the best place to start when scouting out East Webber is not the closest trailhead (Geronimo), but Pine TH. Gotta get in a little warmup!

So we headed up Highline, then Donahue, then overshot the West Webber turn (despite having come up that trail a billion times - it's an easy one to miss). Heading down West Webber was of course fun. After that, heading east on Geronimo was all new territory (not including the Boy Scout days).

East Webber trail is actually quite nice - verdant and smooth, at least to the turnoff to the springs. We stopped at the "swimming hole" for a few minutes for a dip, but the temperature was a little below "refreshing." The trail gets a little overgrown on the way to Rim View junction. After that, it pretty much disappears completely. We were able to follow a semblance of a path until a big giant boulder field choking the canyon. Seriously considered aborting at this point, but we decided to try heading along the slope above all the nonsense. Found what was probably just a game trail that helped us get a little further up canyon. Paths came and went for the next mile or so, until we hit some nice red slickrock, which was also the upper reaches of the creek's flow. After this, it was just mostly hopping over boulders interrupted by one stretch of decent trail.

We cam to a pour off that looked like it has a couple of possible ways around it. We decided to try and go to the left to avoid it, but it turned out to be the "wrong" decision - we went up way too high, and couldn't easily get back down to the creekbed. So we just kept going up and up, avoiding cliff bands, until we ended up at someone's campsite on top of the rim. Whew.

From here, we jogged Milk Ranch Point Rd to 87, and then down into Pine Canyon (which would provide a much needed water stop). Pine Canyon is beautiful, and even better, it has a good trail. When we got down to the girls camp, we were ready for this adventure to be over - there are two competing trail signs on opposite sides, one that says Pine Canyon TH is 4 miles, and one that says 7 miles.

At one point 4 miles may have been accurate, but over the years they've added a bunch of unnecessarily long, swooping switchbacks that have made this trail a lot of fun for MTBs, but absolute torture for pedestrians. (I may or may not have gotten so annoyed with these flat, crappy switchbacks that I cut through on some of the old alignments. If the FS doesn't like it, then maybe they should've considered other trail users before they gutted it.)

In summary... Beautiful route, East Webber trail does not (continuously) go all the way up to the rim, and I'll probably never do this loop again.
_____________________
  1 archive
Apr 17 2019
avatar

 Guides 99
 Routes 1,484
 Photos 16,072
 Triplogs 1,374

male
 Joined Jan 07 2017
 Fountain Hills,
Geronimo Turkey Milk, AZ 
Geronimo Turkey Milk, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Apr 17 2019
DixieFlyerTriplogs 1,374
Hiking10.70 Miles 2,518 AEG
Hiking10.70 Miles   5 Hrs   33 Mns   2.47 mph
2,518 ft AEG   1 Hour   13 Mns Break
 
Last week I did a loop hike that I dubbed Red Geronimo Milk, so this week I decided to try a different flavor of milk, and this one was much tastier!

This hike is north of Payson, near Pine. I started and ended the hike at the Geronimo TH on FR 440, which is near Camp Geronimo, and is a couple of miles off of Control Rd #64.

The route was a CCW lollipop loop hike which followed this sequence:
TH > Highline > Geronimo Trail> Turkey Trail > FR 9381F > Milk Ranch Rd(FR 218) > West Webber Trail > Milk Ranch West Trl(BSA) > Geronimo Trl > Highline > TH

I particularly enjoyed Turkey Trail #217: It had great views along with a cool rock outcropping along the upper part of the trail. It was a lot nicer going down the West Webber Trail than going up it.

This would a good hike when there is hot weather in Phoenix -- the temperatures would be cooler than those in the Valley, and you'd be in shade for much of the hike.

After the hike I made the obligatory stop at That Brewery in Pine!
_____________________
Civilization is a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there
  3 archives
Apr 10 2019
avatar

 Guides 99
 Routes 1,484
 Photos 16,072
 Triplogs 1,374

male
 Joined Jan 07 2017
 Fountain Hills,
Red Geronimo Milk, AZ 
Red Geronimo Milk, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Apr 10 2019
DixieFlyerTriplogs 1,374
Hiking15.70 Miles 3,675 AEG
Hiking15.70 Miles   7 Hrs   39 Mns   2.56 mph
3,675 ft AEG   1 Hour   31 Mns Break
 
1st trip
I had never hiked on the section of the Highline Trail from the Donahue Trail to the Geronimo Trail, so I decided to rectify that today. I wound up doing a CCW lollipop loop hike that started and ended at the Red Rock Springs Trail #294.

The trailhead is on Control Rd #64, and is a little over 2 miles off of Highway 87 between Payson and Pine. The Control Road is a very well graded gravel road that any car can drive on. There is room for probably 4-5 cars at the TH.

The sequence of trails on the hike is below.
TH > Red Rock Springs Trl > Highline Trl > Geronimo Trl > Milk Ranch West Trl > West Webber Trl > FR 218 > Donahue Trl > Highline Trl > Red Rock Springs Trl > TH

I had been on FR 218 and the Donahue Trail before, but the others were new to me.

I enjoyed the hike, although I think that this one would be better in the fall when leaves might be changing. The trails were mostly good to hike on, although I am not a big fan of the descent on the Donahue Trail.

The hike wound up being a bit longer than I intended. On the way out on the Red Rock Springs Trail, I got off the trail on a logging road, and by the time I realized my mistake and got back on the trail, I added about 1.3 miles to the hike.
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Pine Spring  Red Rock Spring
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Isolated
there were some manzanita and desert/mojave ceanothus blooming

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Pine Spring Quart per minute Quart per minute

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water 4 out of 5 Red Rock Tank 76-100% full 76-100% full
_____________________
Civilization is a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there
  1 archive
Sep 01 2018
avatar

 Guides 41
 Routes 1,626
 Photos 14,983
 Triplogs 2,760

69 male
 Joined Jan 20 2009
 Far NE Phoenix,
Red Geronimo Milk East Pine Bear, AZ 
Red Geronimo Milk East Pine Bear, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Sep 01 2018
The_EagleTriplogs 2,760
Hiking15.68 Miles 3,686 AEG
Hiking15.68 Miles   8 Hrs   6 Mns   2.14 mph
3,686 ft AEG      46 Mns Break14 LBS Pack
 
1st trip
Red Rock Springs Trail #284
Started here, because I'd never been on this one.
Nothing special, takes you up to the Highline, by Red Rock Spring.

Highline Trail #31
4 miles on this to get to Geronimo. Highlight was the Pine Spring area. I never noticed the 2nd wooden spring box, south of the one on trail. Had a fox hike towards me.

Geronimo #240
An old rough Road

Geronimo - West Webber Connector - AKA West Milk Ranch - BSA
A good option vs West Webber all the way. Thick trees and a running West Webber Creek, made this enjoyable.

West Webber #228
From where you get on this, the steepness begins. 7/10 of a mile and more than 800' of gain. The only hikers I saw all day, passed me running to the top. One was a Ranger Dave Metzer from Camelback. He says "Hi Joe".

East Rim - BSA
I've been up this numerous times, first time going down this one. A little more slippery, going this direction.

Clear sailing the rest of the way.





 Culture
 Culture [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Bridge
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Pine Spring  Red Rock Spring
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Light

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Pine Spring Dripping Dripping
water report recorded in the field on our app Route Scout Pools to filter from

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Red Rock Spring Dripping Dripping
water report recorded in the field on our app Route Scout Easiest option is from the tank on the highline trail. It was almost full. The spring area had pools that you could filter from if needed.

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max South Fork of West Webber Creek Light flow Light flow
water report recorded in the field on our app Route Scout Areas of flowing water
_____________________
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Dave Barry 🦅
  2 archives
Jul 08 2017
avatar

 Guides 110
 Routes 2,246
 Photos 8,982
 Triplogs 2,600

45 female
 Joined Dec 24 2007
 Ahwatukee, AZ
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ 
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jul 08 2017
LindaAnnTriplogs 2,600
Hiking14.85 Miles 3,532 AEG
Hiking14.85 Miles   6 Hrs   21 Mns   2.58 mph
3,532 ft AEG      36 Mns Break
 
All new territory for me, so I mostly followed along and tried to keep up. We got started around 7:30 to a cloudless sky, and it was already warm and muggy. We didn't see anyone for the first few miles, but after turning on to Geronimo, there was a steady stream of trail runners. We stopped and chatted with them several times, and also took a lunch break in the shade along the creek. Once atop the Rim, we could see clouds forming and moved pretty steadily after that. It was pretty warm on the way down Donahue, and once on Highline again, it felt sweltering. Just as I was about to complain about the heat, the clouds moved in, along with a rain cooled breeze. The last mile back to the trailhead was accompanied with heavy rain, some hail, and too close lightning. I even jogged, and I hate jogging, but getting to the car and out of the lightning seemed like a priority at that point. Great hike and good to get out of the Phoenix heat. It was about 70 degrees at the end of the hike, and I was greeted with 113 by the time I got back to my house a couple hours later.
_____________________
Stop crying and just go do the hike.
  1 archive
Jul 08 2017
avatar

 Routes 54
 Photos 1,508
 Triplogs 325

39 male
 Joined Mar 18 2015
 Payson, AZ
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ 
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jul 08 2017
The_NTriplogs 325
Hiking14.85 Miles 3,532 AEG
Hiking14.85 Miles   6 Hrs   21 Mns   2.58 mph
3,532 ft AEG      36 Mns Break
 
We started from Red Rock Springs TH and did this loop CCW, I have only done it the other way. Getting the Highline section done early was the aim. Humidity was certainly a factor during the earlier hours, though. Once we reached Geronimo the stream of trail runners would begin. We breaked along West Webber Creek, below Turkey Spring. Had a snack and replenished my water supply that dwindled surprisingly fast. The stroll through old Pine and Maples, dotted with raspberries along the creek, was it's usual delightful self. Before the climb up the rim, we stopped and chatted with some of the trail runners, and let them go ahead of us. The climb up on West Webber was enjoyable. Switch backs and shade was all we could ask for, and we would eventually catch the crew of runners and start down Donahue together after the brief road walk. Once on the lower, steeper reaches of Donahue and back on the Highline, it was getting warm. Thunder in the distance led to clouds overhead and a break from the sun. By the time we started back down on Red Rock Springs, the big drops started to fall and we would finish out in a downpour mixed with hail. Temps dropped about 20 degrees and we were soaked upon reaching the TH. The cool down was much appreciated. Had a great time in Rim Country today.
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Mogollon Rim

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Pine Spring Quart per minute Quart per minute

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water less than max Red Rock Tank 51-75% full 51-75% full

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max West Webber Creek Light flow Light flow
_____________________
If there is no struggle, there is no progress.
  2 archives
average hiking speed 2.37 mph
1, 2, 3  Next

WARNING! Hiking and outdoor related sports can be dangerous. Be responsible and prepare for the trip. Study the area you are entering and plan accordingly. Dress for the current and unexpected weather changes. Take plenty of water. Never go alone. Make an itinerary with your plan(s), route(s), destination(s) and expected return time. Give your itinerary to trusted family and/or friends.

helpcommentissue

end of page marker