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Geronimo Trail #240 - 22 members in 85 triplogs have rated this an average 2.6 ( 1 to 5 best )
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85 triplogs
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Aug 30 2025
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69 male
 Joined Jan 20 2009
 Far NE Phoenix,
West Webber - Turkey Springs Balloon, AZ 
West Webber - Turkey Springs Balloon, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Aug 30 2025
The_EagleTriplogs 2,762
Hiking10.92 Miles 2,419 AEG
Hiking10.92 Miles   4 Hrs   50 Mns   2.41 mph
2,419 ft AEG      18 Mns Break3 LBS Pack
 
1st trip
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
I've been wanting to get over here to check out the damage from last years WEST fire. I was going to do it yesterday to avoid the plethora of Labor Day monkeys up on Milk Ranch Point. I knew that the rain yesterday morning would have made the Geronimo trail a slip-fest, so today was the day.

On the drive in, I saw a pride of deer, a gaggle of elk, and a school of turkeys. It was in the 60s with a breeze to start, and there was one other car at the trailhead. To begin, you are on the Highline/AZT for a quarter mile through a pretty section of trail after crossing Webber Creek.

---

Geronimo Trail #240

I am not a fan of this old road, which is now a trail. It's washed out, rocky, and just not fun, but it's a means to get to the good stuff.

---

West Webber Trail #228

I'm happy to say that the maples, oaks, and pines on West Webber appear to be mainly unscathed in the lower elevations. It should be a good autumn color hike this year.

The burn damage was much more evident after the intersection of West Webber and Milk Ranch Point West. This is also where the elevation gain ramps up a bit. While going up, I passed the only hiker/runner I saw all day, who was headed down.

I had a 1.5-mile road walk on FR218 to get to the Turkey Spring Trail. It being a holiday weekend, I expected a zoo. The first half of my walk was pleasant and quiet. The closer I got to Dickerson Flat, not so much. There were 20+ RVs and campers, all with ORVs, motorcycles, etc. Luckily, this is where I hit the Turkey Springs Trail.

---

Turkey Springs Trail #217

The damage on Turkey Springs is a lot more evident, especially toward the top right after you drop off the edge. On the bright side, it opened up the views.

I met the runner again as I was going down Turkey Springs; he was coming up. After a little conversation, he mentioned that he was scouting out part of the route for the Mogollon Monster, which is being run next week (101.8 miles - 16,544 AEG).

The lower sections of the Turkey Springs Trail are in decent shape, both tread-wise and burn-wise. I'd forgotten about the nice rim views here.

I passed up a scenic rock outcropping that I've noted in previous hikes. I had no interest in attempting to climb it.

Further down, I checked out the flowing Turkey Spring, washed off my face, and soaked my hat.

From here on out, I was on the same track that I had headed in on. It was a shady, breezy 82 degrees to finish.

So to sum up,
West Webber still should be an excellent choice for Maples and Oaks.
Turkey Springs has Oaks in the upper stretches and they should be mostly good. This trail took most of it's fire damage in the upper half after dropping off the rim.
 Fauna
 Fauna [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Merriam's Turkey
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Turkey Spring
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Isolated


water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max South Fork of West Webber Creek Pools to trickle Pools to trickle
water report recorded in the field on our app Route Scout

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water less than max Turkey Spring Gallon per minute Gallon per minute

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Webber Creek @ Highline Light flow Light flow
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There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Dave Barry 🦅
 
Jun 18 2024
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75 male
 Joined May 04 2004
 Mesa, AZ
Turkey Springs #217 via Geronimo, AZ 
Turkey Springs #217 via Geronimo, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jun 18 2024
CannondaleKidTriplogs 2,411
Hiking7.70 Miles 2,596 AEG
Hiking7.70 Miles   4 Hrs   52 Mns   1.73 mph
2,596 ft AEG      25 Mns Break18 LBS Pack
 no routes
1st trip
Partners partners
trixiec
With the hotter temps Tracey wanted something cooler yet not too long a drive, making sure to avoid road construction issues and the like.

Having been 5 years, how about something on Pinal Peak? Seems like a reasonable alternative, but not so fast... what about the 3-4x weekly 9am-2pm closures on the US 60?

A quick check at AZ511.gov on Monday it stated a closure would take place on Wednesday and Thursday 6/19 & 6/20 so it appeared 6/18 would NOT have a closure, just slow through the construction zone. However, due to higher than normal frequency of accidents between Superior and Globe as of late, as well as noting US 60 was closed for some time on Monday due to an accident near Miami, I had a feeling there would be a last-minute change. And sure enough, taking an early look at AZ511 Tuesday morning there already was an accident close to Miami again, so although it did not show any closure for it, I wasn't about to trust it so on to the backup plan.

Ok, quick, what's the backup plan?
1. Somewhere N or E of Payson
2. On the Rim or thereabouts
3. Avoid the construction on the 260
4. Tracey was adamant it be an actual trail
When she mentioned something on the Highline? I scanned back in time to find although we had hiked numerous parts of the Highline more than once (plus Tracey had backpacked the whole thing) it had been 8 years since our one-and-only hike on the Turkey Springs Trail so we were more than due.

So, of course, due to all of the above, we had a later start than ideal. Although at a higher (cooler?) altitude I knew we'd be in the sun for much of the hike so I doubled my usual amount of fluids, albeit fully half being in a frozen state. As it turned out, I downed it all, so by neglecting to put more than one 12 oz bottle in the cooler that's all I had for the drive home.

Where were we?? Oh yeah, let's get to THE HIKE.

On the Control Road we only met one vehicle so we avoided much of the raised dust. Being a Tuesday I didn't expect anyone else at the Geronimo/Highline/AZT#26 TH and that was the case, so we expected a nice peaceful hike in-the-pines. Unfortunately that tranquility lasted less than 10 minutes, when shooting (from the camp?) began, continuing non-stop for the next 2+ hours. ](*,)

Whatever, it wasn't far along the Geronimo Trail before I recalled wondering the same thing as 8 years ago... we seemed to be descending more than ascending. Rather than the continual descend/ascend/descend/ascend/descend, when will we only be going UP? Of course it never ends on Geronimo, only upon reaching the Turkey Springs Trail. And of course, this was where we left the 'official route' to follow what I believe to be the original trail right past the actual spring. (So yes, while we did a smidgen of cross-country, it raised no complaint from Tracey.)

For the most part the trails (Geronimo & Turkey Springs) were easy to follow, but there were times when we followed what appeared to be old fire-break 'roads' as well as taking a few shortcuts along game trails to avoid a needless descent only to ascend again.

Although we encountered the odd deadfall here and there, one ~100-yard section on #217 was littered with over a half-dozen, one after the other and already had obvious short detours. At the gate in the fence at the Gila/Coconino County border there was no need to open the gate as barely a few feet away all we had to do was step over the fence where a tree had fallen on the fence.

Along the upper part of Trail #217 it was getting decidedly 'warm' in the direct sun so just short of the 'upper 'end' we scanned for and located a nice lunch-and-break spot fitting our requirements... a reasonably flat rock to sit on, in the shade and with a nice breeze. And wonder of wonders, the shooting stopped almost the moment we sat down. So we were able to enjoy-the-moment, such as it was, for it appeared they may have only stopped shooting for lunch, coinciding with our 25-minute break. When our break was over, the shooting began again. Thinking back on it now, I don't recall how long it continued, only that it had stopped shortly before we got back to the TH.

For one final less-than-optimal part of the experience, moments before we were about to drive away from the TH, two vehicles leave from the camp... oh great! If we follow right away, who knows how long we'll have to eat-their-dust. All we could hope for is:
1. They turn East at the Control Road, OR
2. They DON'T take the FR3731 shortcut (and we DO) to avoid a double-creek crossing.
Unfortunately, it was:
3. They took the shortcut AND drove West.
So, to avoid the freshly-raised dust I drove slow enough until the last vehicle was far enough ahead the dust had time to settle or lightly waft away.

Thankfully the drive back home was uneventful... other than the batches of 80+ mph vehicles nose-to-tail jockeying to pass 'slower' (70+ mph) traffic. In no hurry ourselves, 65 was just right... as long as I watched my rearview mirror more than looking ahead.
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Turkey Spring
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CannondaleKid
 
Jun 13 2024
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49 male
 Joined Jun 20 2003
 Tucson, AZ
East Webber via GeronimoPayson, AZ
Payson, AZ
Hiking avatar Jun 13 2024
fricknaleyTriplogs 4,124
Hiking8.00 Miles 1,332 AEG
Hiking8.00 Miles
1,332 ft AEG
 no routes
1st trip
Partners none no partners
Michelle and I started at Geronimo TH. ended up taking east webber until it started getting pretty overgrown. great trails. nice ferns and some water in the creek. a mostly cloudy day with a few sprinkles really added to an already delightful day. Michelle loved it out there and I had not been on East Webber before so total win all around
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hi
 
Oct 18 2023
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63 male
 Joined Dec 20 2010
 Sunnyslope, PHX
Geronimo Trail #240Payson, AZ
Payson, AZ
Hiking avatar Oct 18 2023
kingsnakeTriplogs 894
Hiking8.75 Miles 1,308 AEG
Hiking8.75 Miles   3 Hrs   36 Mns   2.43 mph
1,308 ft AEG
 
1st trip
Partners none no partners
Last week, hiking the General Crook Trail, I could see spots of fall color lower on the Rim.

From the trailhead, hike 1/4 mile south on Highline Trail, then turn right on Trail #240, which twists & turns, generally northwest, climbing 270 ft. in 3/4 mile. The fall color starts at the top of the climb, and continues to the 2-mile mark at Trail #217. 🍁

The only confusing bit of Trail #240 is 1¾ miles out: The trail looks like it turns left & up, yet it actually turns right & down, towards Camp Geronimo. At the gate, then you turn sharp left.

At the Trail #217 sign, turn right to continue on Trail #240. Trail #289 starts just past the 3-mile mark. I misinterpreted the signs, and soon found myself heading downhill. I doubled back. Though the arrow appears to point right, turn left at the Trail #289 sign.

Trail #289 begins a steady climb, the slope gradually increasing. It gains 900 ft. in two miles. It is all singletrack, often indistinct, with regular deadfall. Some quite large. Plus roots and rocks. I climbed over some deadfall, and ducked under others. In other words very similar to one of the canyon crawls I do on top of the Mogollon Rim. It’s physical going down canyon. Even more so going up.

Despite many signs, some quite old, I got off trail twice.

Though Webber Creek was running, I was able to cross dry each time. About a mile up #289, there is a really nice little pool, that is deep enough to sit in.

Before the 5-mile mark, I decided I’d had enough. I didn’t realize at the time, the spring was only another 1/3 mile. Kind of bummed in retrospect. I could have made it. But I had exercised, and that is always my main objective.

Rumble Video: https://rumble.com/v3qt8vl-mogollon-rim ... -hike.html
Vimeo Video: https://vimeo.com/876714085
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  East Webber Creek
 Meteorology
 Meteorology [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Autumn - Color Foliage
foliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observation
Autumn Foliage Observation Light
Moderate maple along Geronimo 240. Light yellow ???s, plus a few maple, along East Webber 289. Oak barely changing.
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Isolated
One cluster of what I believe was white prairie aster. A few mullein still sticking around.
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http://prestonm.com : Everyone's enjoyment of the outdoors is different and should be equally honored.
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Jun 17 2023
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male
 Joined Jan 07 2017
 Fountain Hills,
Geronimo Turkey Milk, AZ 
Geronimo Turkey Milk, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jun 17 2023
DixieFlyerTriplogs 1,375
Hiking10.57 Miles 2,400 AEG
Hiking10.57 Miles   5 Hrs   33 Mns   2.28 mph
2,400 ft AEG      55 Mns Break
 
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
This is a fun hike that I haven't done in about 4 years, so I decided to head up to the Rim and enjoy some nice weather and do this hike again.

We did a lasso loop hike with the loop done in a CCW fashion.

It was a tough climb up to the Rim, but not too bad. A highlight of the hike was stopping at the rock climbing that is about 3/4 of the way up the Turkey Springs Trail. There are great views on the rock outcropping and it is fun to scramble around on the rocks.

We took a break at a nice campsite up on Milk Ranch Point before heading back. On the way back we took the West Webber Trail all the way back down instead of taking the West Webber-Geronimo Connector like I usually do.

It was another fun day up on the Rim!
 Fauna
 Fauna [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Horned Lizard

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Webber Creek @ Highline Light flow Light flow

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max West Webber Creek Light flow Light flow
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  1 archive
Jun 13 2023
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 Routes 17
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45 male
 Joined Jun 26 2017
 Payson, Arizona
Geronimo - Turkey Springs - West Webber, AZ 
Geronimo - Turkey Springs - West Webber, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jun 13 2023
PaysonRealtorAZTriplogs 10
Hiking12.76 Miles 2,726 AEG
Hiking12.76 Miles
2,726 ft AEG
 
1st trip
I started at the Geronimo Trailhead and took the Geronimo Trail to a loop hike, starting with Turkey Springs, then FR 218, and back down West Webber Creek Trail.

I had trouble finding the trail around Turkey Springs, but ultimately was able to get back on it by keeping close the tracks in the official guide. Great views from the Turkey Springs but it was a real grind. I've hiked a bunch of these trails to the Rim, including the Babe Haught Trail just a few days before, but it seemed harder.

I'm glad that I did the West Webber Creek Trail coming back down. It has a lot of shade and it was great to have that on my way back to the trailhead.

I've seen it said that the West Webber Creek Trail is great in fall, and while I hiked in summer, I can totally see where it would be a great fall trail. The vegetation lends itself to that.
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Isolated
Some Columbines by the creek and probably a few others in spots that I didn't pay as much attention too. The biggest thing was that the Manzanitas were flowering, particularly near the top of the Rim on the Turkey Springs Trail.
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Oct 10 2022
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69 male
 Joined Jan 20 2009
 Far NE Phoenix,
Milk Ranch Point West - West Webber, AZ 
Milk Ranch Point West - West Webber, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Oct 10 2022
The_EagleTriplogs 2,762
Hiking7.31 Miles 1,289 AEG
Hiking7.31 Miles   3 Hrs   6 Mns   2.46 mph
1,289 ft AEG      8 Mns Break12 LBS Pack
 
1st trip
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
I thought I'd try this track to see if there was potentially some early color. Hiking these trails in the past, I knew there are lots of maples and oaks, with a smattering of AZ Walnut.

I was surprised there were 4 cars at the TH when I arrived. 6 when I left. I never saw another person all day except for the TH.

Geronimo Trail #240 is not a favorite of mine. It's an old road that has eroded in many spots. The only plus on this trail is the views to the rim.

At the 2 mile mark, you hit the BSA TR - Milk Ranch Point West Trail. There is no sign at the Geronimo Trail. The trail is tight in spots but easy to follow. There are about a dozen logs over the trail to where it meets the West Webber Trail. All but the last one on way up are easy to go over or under. I asked for color and I got it. Green is a color. Less than 1% has turned.

At the intersection with West Webber I made the decision to head down West Webber instead of continuing to the rim. There was a light rain and thunder crackling overhead and nearby.

West Webber #228 is in much better shape. I really love this trail and would do it much more frequently, if it didn't require the Geronimo from below for access. Lots of old growth makes for a thick canopy.

Back on Geronimo for my return to the TH, footing was slippery from all the rain. One more reason to love Geronimo.

Give this track 2 weeks and the colors should be poppin'
 Flora
 Flora [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Smooth Sumac

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max South Fork of West Webber Creek Light flow Light flow
_____________________
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Dave Barry 🦅
 
Aug 06 2022
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 Guides 94
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 Photos 22,055
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52 male
 Joined Sep 18 2002
 Tempe, AZ
East Webber Loop, AZ 
East Webber Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Aug 06 2022
chumleyTriplogs 1,993
Hiking12.19 Miles 2,629 AEG
Hiking12.19 Miles   5 Hrs   54 Mns   2.12 mph
2,629 ft AEG      9 Mns Break
 no routes
1st trip
I hadn't ever done anything in this area save for car camping below the scout camp a decade or more ago, so I pieced together a loop similar to something Bruce and Joe had done about the time of that last car camp here :sweat: .

The forecast called for some showers but they stayed away, and in fact the climb up TS would have been nice with a dark cloud over us as it was a little bit warm in the exposed upper section in the sun.

Upper East Webber was a fun scramble. There was just a trickle of water flowing along the way until the real creek flow began at the spring. Obstacles were bypassed a few times, and there's a lot of hand work to negotiate downed trees and such.

As expected, the real "trail" at the bottom is overgrown and unmaintained. 9L really enjoyed frolicking in the poison ivy! :D

There were two guys picking raspberries near the deepest pool, and we encountered a group of three hazzers on a separate loop near the Turkey junction.

Up top, I detoured us to the PHX --> 75 sign which I had never inspected up close before.

Quick work on the road back to the truck and a solid day complete.
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Lee Johnson Spring  Turkey Spring
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I'm not sure what my spirit animal is, but I'm confident it has rabies.
 
Aug 04 2022
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 Guides 187
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72 male
 Joined Jun 27 2015
 Tucson, Arizona
East Webber Creek, AZ 
East Webber Creek, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Aug 04 2022
markthurman53Triplogs 865
Hiking8.09 Miles 1,269 AEG
Hiking8.09 Miles   5 Hrs   4 Mns   1.86 mph
1,269 ft AEG      43 Mns Break
 
1st trip
Partners partners
mamakatt22
From Flagstaff I headed to Sanders to stop and get yarn at Burnham Trading post then we headed to Petrified Forest for a short visit before heading to Payson. The next day in Payson we took the Geronimo Trail to East Webber. We took the East Webber a little over 2 miles before turning around.

Both trails are in good condition. I remember the Geronimo Trail when I hiked it before and was once again surprised by how much uphill there is going in. I don't mind the uphill but when you start a hike and think its a gentle walk upstream it takes you by surprise or maybe after doing the West Webber/Turkey Spring Loop up to the rim the uphill seamed like nothing. There was no one on the trail and both West and East Webber had a light flow. Stopped at our turn around point took a break and soaked our feet, boy the water was cold. Some day I will have to finish up East Webber maybe from the rim since the Rim View Trail doesn't seem to exist anymore.

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max East Webber Creek Light flow Light flow

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Webber Creek @ Highline Light flow Light flow

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max West Webber Creek Light flow Light flow
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Oct 09 2020
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 Guides 1
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68 male
 Joined Mar 09 2012
 Gilbert, AZ
Geronimo Turkey Milk, AZ 
Geronimo Turkey Milk, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Oct 09 2020
rayhustonTriplogs 938
Hiking10.06 Miles 2,288 AEG
Hiking10.06 Miles   5 Hrs   11 Mns   2.16 mph
2,288 ft AEG      31 Mns Break
 
1st trip
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
Lunch at the Rim again. I'm beginning to like this very much.

I used a track from @DixieFlyer for this hike. It was my second time hiking from the Geronimo Trailhead, the first time hiking Geronimo, Turkey, a portion of West Webber and a BSA trail (Milk Ranch Point West). I hiked the loop in a CCW direction.

I didn't care for the the extra baggage of the Geronimo trail, but you need it if you want to hike this loop from the Geronimo TH. I think it would be a better loop if started from Milk Ranch Rd.

I very much enjoyed the Turkey trail. It's a good track, has outstanding views of the Mogollon Rim on the way up and is a great workout, getting steeper as you approach the rim. I stopped for lunch at a large rock outcropping about a third of a mile from the top. If I had turned around there, it would have been a worthy hike. I continued on to Milk Ranch Road, headed south towards the West Webber trail and then down West Webber.

Webber is also a very nice track, steep at the top but with reasonably good footing. I wasn't aware of it at the time, but the track I borrowed departs from the West Webber trail at the intersection with the BSA trail mentioned earlier and follows the BSA track back to the Geronimo trail. I decided to stay on the track I had. The BSA trail was actually pretty cool, a little overgrown in places, but fun. You might find some nice fall colors there in another week or two. Since I started late (11:20ish), I was in the shade the entire way down.

I liked this loop a lot. I will more than likely return to give it another go. There were a couple of missed opportunities: I want to climb the rock outcropping where I ate lunch and I want to see the rest of West Webber. As it was, it was a very fun hike on a great day.
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Sep 26 2020
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 Guides 41
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69 male
 Joined Jan 20 2009
 Far NE Phoenix,
Red Rock - West Webber - East Rim, AZ 
Red Rock - West Webber - East Rim, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Sep 26 2020
The_EagleTriplogs 2,762
Hiking17.27 Miles 3,511 AEG
Hiking17.27 Miles   8 Hrs   29 Mns   2.28 mph
3,511 ft AEG      55 Mns Break14 LBS Pack
 
1st trip
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
Red Rock Springs Trail #294
A 1 mile/600' climb from the TH to the Highline Trail. The trail is in decent shape. I checked out the spring and kicked up a few elk. The spring box was empty and the spring area was mainly just muddy.

Highline Trail #31
A roller coaster over to the Geronimo Trail with nice views to the rim. The trail is starting to get a tad overgrown in spots

Geronimo Trail #240
Not my favorite, being on a rocky road, but at least it's mostly shaded. Where the West Fork of Webber crosses the trail, there in a filterable flow. I also checked out Turkey Spring which had a strong flow from the pipe.

West Webber #228
This was the the reason I did this hike. I was hoping for a little early color and that's exactly what I got. This trail is just pretty. Maples, Oaks, Walnut, Grape and a trickling creek. The forest is thick and the trail is a lung buster, gaining 1,400' in 2 miles. This trail should start having some nice color in a couple of weeks.

East Rim Trail #7
After some lunch at a favorite spot, I did a bit of an off trail to get over to the East Rim Trail. This is another fun little route/scramble that the Boy Scouts put together some time ago. This one gets you slowly down the east rim of Pine Canyon and drops 1,200' in a mile to the Pine Canyon Trail.

A fun little hike in great weather. I did not see a single person all day
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Turkey Spring

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Pine Spring Dripping Dripping
water report recorded in the field on our app Route Scout In a pinch you could get some clean water out of this

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max South Fork of West Webber Creek Light flow Light flow
water report recorded in the field on our app Route Scout Plenty of pools to filter from

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water less than max Turkey Spring Gallon per minute Gallon per minute
water report recorded in the field on our app Route Scout
_____________________
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Dave Barry 🦅
  1 archive
Sep 19 2020
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 Routes 268
 Photos 2,969
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66 male
 Joined Aug 16 2009
 Mesa,AZ
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ 
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Sep 19 2020
hikerdwTriplogs 541
Hiking14.26 Miles 3,117 AEG
Hiking14.26 Miles   6 Hrs   1 Min   2.70 mph
3,117 ft AEG      44 Mns Break
 
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
First did this loop back in 2015, in a CW direction, this trip we hiked it CCW. With the warmer temps CCW would be my preference.

The Red Rock Springs Trail Head is a disaster. Trash of the worse kind everywhere. Some people should be banned from any kind of outdoor activity.

Lots of ankle busting rocks on the Red Rock Springs trail but a nice warmup.

Highline trail is in nice shape.

Geronimo has its good and bad but overall a nice trail.

We hiked the West Webber Connector trail which I really enjoyed. Would have been even nicer with water running in the creek.

West Webber is a climb. The switchbacks allowed it to be less painful.

Donahue down, going in the right direction, lots of rocks.

Back on the Highline to close this one out.

Really nice hike once your out of the trailhead. Crossed paths with two hikers and four trail runners so solitude was nice. Temps were a little on the warm side but not bad. Nice miles and AEG.
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Aug 08 2020
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male
 Joined Jan 07 2017
 Fountain Hills,
Geronimo Turkey Milk, AZ 
Geronimo Turkey Milk, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Aug 08 2020
DixieFlyerTriplogs 1,375
Hiking11.00 Miles 2,559 AEG
Hiking11.00 Miles   5 Hrs   4 Mns   2.43 mph
2,559 ft AEG      32 Mns Break
 
I was once again looking to escape the heat of the valley, and decided to head back to the Rim Country. This time, I did a lollipop loop hike starting from the Geronimo TH and going up to Milk Ranch Point.

We did the loop CCW by going up on the Turkey Trail and coming back down on the West Webber Trail.

You'll get a good workout on the ascent up the Turkey Trail -- about 2/3 of the way up we stopped and climbed up on a cool rock outcropping that has some great views.

The trails were generally in good shape, although the West Webber Trail is getting a little overgrown in places, mainly with some small maple trees and some sumac.

The drive in on the Control Road and the forest road leading to the Boy Scout Camp were both in good shape -- most any vehicle could easily drive it. I wish that the western part of Rim Road 300 was in similar condition!
 Culture
 Culture [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Bridge  Point
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Civilization is a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there
  1 archive
May 27 2020
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 Guides 7
 Routes 72
 Photos 14,456
 Triplogs 627

62 female
 Joined Aug 19 2011
 Scottsdale, AZ
Rim View Webber Loop, AZ 
Rim View Webber Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar May 27 2020
outdoor_loverTriplogs 627
Hiking12.00 Miles 2,500 AEG
Hiking12.00 Miles
2,500 ft AEG
 
1st trip
This Hike will go into the "What in the h*** was I thinking" Folder. Wrong Loop to do after barely doing anything in the last two weeks.

I can sum this up in 3 sentences.
My Curiosity of this Area has been completely satisfied.
This Loop completely and utterly kicked my pumpkin.
Of the 4 Trails that I used to create this Loop, 3 of them are definitely a One and Done.

I did this Loop CCW. I wanted to get the Rim View Trail out of the way early on and hopefully before it got too hot. Huh.... It was a good Decision for the former at least. I would have hated leaving this one for the back end. It took me so long to do that Trail that I was in it for most of the heat as well. So glad I brought almost 5 Liters of Water. Drank every drop on this Hike and could have drank more. Webber Creek saved me, I was an overheated, bloody mess by the time I got there. If there had been a swimming hole at that crossing, I would have just gone completely in.

Highline/AZT 26
Whenever the AZT comes into play on a Trail, the maintenance is pretty stellar, at least in the places I've experienced. This Section was no different. Just a Dream to Stroll, Hike and just Cruise along. The ATA has done some impressive work here. I'll compare it to a Wedding.

Rim View Trail BSA
Omg... :sweat: :sweat: :sweat: First, I will tell you that the Highline/Rim View Trail intersection has been moved further north and east. Because of that, the Rim View Trail has been extended and that extension is in great shape. The Trail is marked with green fence poles with the tops painted orange. The first mile or so was great, if the Trail was questionable at all, the poles could usually be found to help with the Route Finding. I'll compare this Section to a Honeymoon. Nice Views and decent Trail. After this Section, the Honeymoon was over. The Vegetation, consisting of Manzanita, Scrub Oak, Locust and even Raspberries, competes with the Love and the Love loses, badly. And so do the Poles. If the Poles didn't completely do a vanishing act in the Vegetation, they were bent or broken to where you still couldn't see them until you were right on top of them. I don't think the rest of this Trail has seen any Love except from the Wildlife, who love it in places, but even they desert it at times and that makes it even worse. If there were new sections of Trail through here, then I guess I was on them, but most of it is gone too. After the 1st hour of basically a bushwack, with some of it actually being on the Trail (which was better), I should have turned around. If I hadn't had a GPS, I would have for sure. But I had gone this far and I was trying to stay optimistic with the chance that at some point, someone had done some work somewhere along here. Besides, turning around meant another hour of crap, just to get back. So I kept going. Someday, my stubborness is going to kill me. The Length of that Trail is roughly 3.6 Miles. With two very short breaks to snack and get some electrolytes, it took me over 6 hours. With the Honeymoon being long over, I was now ready for a Divorce. It was incredibly hard to stay on the Route at all. But I kept trying to stay on the Route, because at times, the Trail was still defined. It was still being taken over by vegetation, but easier to walk through. But those areas would only last 100 feet if I was lucky and then I was trying to follow the path of least resistance that would end, and I would immediately be off Route again. In trying to get back to the Trail, I would try to use some Route Finding and Trail Logic. I was wrong 80% of the time. I soon learned that if in doubt, stay high, and at times, the Route went even higher. But then, Cairns appeared briefly and they went even higher, so I followed and it didn't seem right. I was off Route yet again. No Clue what was up with the Cairns. If Hank and Kyle hadn't put in the Waypoint for the Rock Chute, I'd been hard pressed to find a way down at all. As it was, doing down off that Slope was mostly on my butt. I finally made the Creek. Going into and out of the Creek was the most defined part of the Trail in the last 2 miles. I spent some time sitting in the Creek, cooling down and washing off blood. It was much later than I wanted, but I made the Decision to go for the Spring, up canyon on East Webber. I made it, but it just about finished me off.

East Webber to Spring
There is no defined "intersection" of East Webber and Rim View. No Sign either. But the Trail was nice for a bit at least. And it stayed "defined" for most of the way up towards the Perennial Spring. And there were Pink Ribbons occasionally to help. The Trail is there, but for most of the Hike from the 2nd Water crossing on, it is littered with debris. And when I mean littered, I mean, you can't see the dirt at all. Wood chips, bark chips, wood chunks galore. The Bears are busy in there breaking up and destroying old logs and nobody is cleaning up after them. And let's add quite a few downed trees over the trail. This trail was only about a mile and a half one way, but it became exhausting. It wasn't helpful after what I had just done. The Route shows that you can go up to the Spring, but I never saw it and actually went farther up the Trail before I turned around. The Creek is dry at that point. Note to others. Wear pants on this Section. Most of the Vegetation encroaching on the Trail is Raspberries. I wouldn't do this section again unless I could be sure to hit it at the Peak of Autumn. Lots of Maples in here.

East Webber/Geronimo to the TH
By the time I got back to the Webber/Rim View "Intersection", I was physically and mentally fried. And I still had over 4 miles to go with about 2 hours of light left. I had less than a liter of water left and used it with another electrolyte with 3 miles to go. Needless to say, I just put my head down and got it done. I will say that from that intersection to where the Trail turns into a Jeep road, East Webber was a wonderful single track tread and it almost made me euphoric at that point. Once it became a road and eventually merged with Geronimo, it was just ok, but the Forest and Creek were pretty nice through there. Nice road walk if you're in the area and don't have a lot of time. Geronimo was pretty much all Road Walk until just before the end, where you basically merge with the Highline/AZT for the final 1/4 mile or so.

I could have almost cried when I saw the Truck with less than 30 minutes of light left. I was one hurting mess. A cigarette would have been sweet here, but no, I had to settle for downing a cold Powerade I had in the Truck. I'm about 40 days Smoke Free at this point and as hard as it still is, I simply can't give in. I made a deal with myself. The only way I could afford the truck was to give up the smokes. And I sure do enjoy the Truck. I look at it every time I'm having a lot of trouble with a craving. The Reward is worth it and I seem to be not as winded as easily while hiking, so that's always a bonus. :)

Additional Perspective on the Rim Trail. I might do it again if someone paid me, but they would have to dig very very deep. I would recommend this Trail for about a mile as an Out and Back from the Highline, that is all. The rest of it isn't a Trail anymore, it's simply a bushwack. Unless the Forest Service or Boy Scouts come back and say they've completely revamped it or you're simply masochistic, don't do it. And if you're the latter and decide to do it and you want even more punishment, don't take a GPS. You'll adore the Hell you've walked into.
 Culture
 Culture [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  HAZ - Hike HAZard
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Geronimo Spring
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Light
New Mexico Locust is in full swing. Other bushy Flowers as well. The Raspberries are getting started. One cluster of Indian Paintbrush. Some smaller wildflowers here and there.

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max East Webber Creek Light flow Light flow
Until north of 2nd unnamed Spring just below the Rim. Then East Webber is dry.

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water less than max Geronimo Spring Gallon per minute Gallon per minute
At the Trail. Although there was a path to the Spring Box, it's getting pretty overgrown with Raspberries, so I didn't check the Spring Box.

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max South Fork of West Webber Creek Light flow Light flow
At Webber Trail Crossing

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water less than max Un-named Spr(Off TR 289 at 6162ft) Gallon per minute Gallon per minute

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Webber Creek - Kehl Ridge 7.5 Topo Light flow Light flow

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Webber Creek @ Highline Light flow Light flow

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max West Webber Creek Pools to trickle Pools to trickle
At Webber Trail Crossing
_____________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty & well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming, "Wow What a Ride!"
 
Mar 19 2020
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 Guides 3
 Routes 202
 Photos 3,513
 Triplogs 530

male
 Joined Jan 24 2016
 Arizona
Geronimo Trail #240Payson, AZ
Payson, AZ
Hiking avatar Mar 19 2020
MountainMattTriplogs 530
Hiking5.28 Miles 996 AEG
Hiking5.28 Miles
996 ft AEG35 LBS Pack
 
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners none no partners
Geronimo to Bear Spring with a little wiggling and wandering in between.
A surprisingly decent little snowpack made the edges of the “Mogollon Magnificence” shine in glory.
Every creek and canyon are fueled, flowing and happy with a nourishing winter and spring with more to come.
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Oct 22 2019
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 Routes 36
 Photos 2,658
 Triplogs 1,347

67 male
 Joined Jul 28 2004
 Scottsdale, AZ
Highline - AZT #26Payson, AZ
Payson, AZ
Hiking avatar Oct 22 2019
mazatzalTriplogs 1,347
Hiking5.00 Miles 460 AEG
Hiking5.00 Miles
460 ft AEG
 no routes
Partners partners
Sredfield
Three of us met with two FS folks at Geronimo TH to check 2 trail washouts and assess what could be done to fIx them. Saw a rafter of turkeys near the TH :)

After that we went over to Bradshaw tank to check a gate location and the off trail access route.
foliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observation
Autumn Foliage Observation Light
wildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observationwildflower observation
Wildflowers Observation Isolated
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  2 archives
Sep 02 2019
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 Guides 187
 Routes 990
 Photos 12,079
 Triplogs 865

72 male
 Joined Jun 27 2015
 Tucson, Arizona
Webber Turkey Spring Loop, AZ 
Webber Turkey Spring Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Sep 02 2019
markthurman53Triplogs 865
Hiking13.41 Miles 2,619 AEG
Hiking13.41 Miles   7 Hrs   13 Mns   2.43 mph
2,619 ft AEG   1 Hour   42 Mns Break15 LBS Pack
 
1st trip
Partners none no partners
After a month of not hiking I decided to head up to Payson for a couple days. Heading up there on Labor day turned out to be a good idea, Started out of Tucson at 0500, there was no traffic coming out of Phoenix and the drive to the trail head at Webber Creek was also fairly easy, with the exception of a few crazies that think the control Road is a place to see how fast their off road vehicles can take that road. Got a late start at 0900. Amazingly the two days of hiking here I did not see one other person on the trail.

Started out on the Highline Trail and after .25 miles turned on to the Geronimo Trail, which is actually just an old road for the most part. The fun began at the West Webber Trail. I would really of preferred to do this a bit earlier because by 1000 it was getting a little warm and humid for this ascent. This trail was in good condition but it is steep. After a few standing breaks I finally made it to the top. The walk along Milk Ranch Road to the Turkey Spring trail was easy going after the climb up but due to the lack of shade it was hot. Dickenson Flat Tank had a bit of water in it but didn't look too appetizing. The grass growing around it in the meadow looked like it was just freshly mowed. Do they still run cattle up here or is this just deer and elk?

I thought that at the Turkey Spring Trail Head it would be all downhill but there is a small hill to climb up first. It isn't much of a hill but it is up none the less and when your expecting down it was kind of frustrating. Funny how when you're hot and tired how you can make a mountain out of a molehill. I took my lunch break just over the hill, didn't want to start out on an uphill plus there was a slight breeze there. Had a Subway Italian BMT for lunch and I am still amazed how much better those are when you are hiking, beats the heck out of that healthy hiking trail stuff I usually have. Started down the Turkey Spring Trail refreshed and ready to go. This trail is a lot more exposed to the sun due to the lack of trees on the upper end but it was downhill so it was tolerable. The views to the north of the Mogollon rim were spectacular along this trail. I even spotted the rock up on the rim to the north that me and my wife spent some time on years ago with all of the Payson area laid out in front of us. Good memories. This is another nice trail and I would definitely rather go up the West Webber and down this one. The west Webber does a lot more switchbacks so the grade is milder and there is more canopy to shield the sun.

I still had time when I got back to the Geronimo Trail so I took it east to Webber Creek. This was kind of a ho hum trail along an old road for the most part. The last .1 miles to the creek was a trail. There was a trail that I noticed every so often that seemed to be paralleling the road, I believe this trail starts at the Campground in Webber Canyon Campground. I will have to check this out on another trip. Made it to Webber creek refilled my canteen and headed back. I had plans to hike further up the East Webber Creek Trail but time was running out. Should of left Tucson at 0300 like I originally planned. The East Webber Creek Trail looks like it is an actual Trail.

Got back to Payson about 1700 and boy what a zoo. Traffic on the 260 was backed up for miles making the turn onto 87 south to Phoenix. Lucky for me I was heading East on the 260 so there was no traffic issues. The trick is to know what everybody is doing and do the opposite. Felt good to get out hiking again after a month of idleness. The last month I have been dealing with SS and medicare. working with them is like pushing a chain up the Turkey Spring Trail. I had two days where I barely thought about them.
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Dickenson Flat Tank

water 1 out of 5water less than maxwater less than maxwater less than max Dickenson Flat Tank 1-25% full 1-25% full

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max East Webber Creek Light flow Light flow

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Webber Creek @ Highline Light flow Light flow
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Jun 08 2019
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 Guides 12
 Routes 192
 Photos 863
 Triplogs 356

42 male
 Joined Nov 30 2015
 Phoenix, AZ
East Webber loop, AZ 
East Webber loop, AZ
 
Run/Jog avatar Jun 08 2019
ShatteredArmTriplogs 356
Run/Jog28.70 Miles 5,400 AEG
Run/Jog28.70 Miles   10 Hrs   57 Mns   2.62 mph
5,400 ft AEG
 
1st trip
Next in my backlog of "crazy adventures that I'm fine with only doing once" (this backlog goes back years) - the one I'm calling "The old maps say East Webber trail goes all the way to the rim."

Logically, we figured the best place to start when scouting out East Webber is not the closest trailhead (Geronimo), but Pine TH. Gotta get in a little warmup!

So we headed up Highline, then Donahue, then overshot the West Webber turn (despite having come up that trail a billion times - it's an easy one to miss). Heading down West Webber was of course fun. After that, heading east on Geronimo was all new territory (not including the Boy Scout days).

East Webber trail is actually quite nice - verdant and smooth, at least to the turnoff to the springs. We stopped at the "swimming hole" for a few minutes for a dip, but the temperature was a little below "refreshing." The trail gets a little overgrown on the way to Rim View junction. After that, it pretty much disappears completely. We were able to follow a semblance of a path until a big giant boulder field choking the canyon. Seriously considered aborting at this point, but we decided to try heading along the slope above all the nonsense. Found what was probably just a game trail that helped us get a little further up canyon. Paths came and went for the next mile or so, until we hit some nice red slickrock, which was also the upper reaches of the creek's flow. After this, it was just mostly hopping over boulders interrupted by one stretch of decent trail.

We cam to a pour off that looked like it has a couple of possible ways around it. We decided to try and go to the left to avoid it, but it turned out to be the "wrong" decision - we went up way too high, and couldn't easily get back down to the creekbed. So we just kept going up and up, avoiding cliff bands, until we ended up at someone's campsite on top of the rim. Whew.

From here, we jogged Milk Ranch Point Rd to 87, and then down into Pine Canyon (which would provide a much needed water stop). Pine Canyon is beautiful, and even better, it has a good trail. When we got down to the girls camp, we were ready for this adventure to be over - there are two competing trail signs on opposite sides, one that says Pine Canyon TH is 4 miles, and one that says 7 miles.

At one point 4 miles may have been accurate, but over the years they've added a bunch of unnecessarily long, swooping switchbacks that have made this trail a lot of fun for MTBs, but absolute torture for pedestrians. (I may or may not have gotten so annoyed with these flat, crappy switchbacks that I cut through on some of the old alignments. If the FS doesn't like it, then maybe they should've considered other trail users before they gutted it.)

In summary... Beautiful route, East Webber trail does not (continuously) go all the way up to the rim, and I'll probably never do this loop again.
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Jun 08 2019
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 Guides 73
 Routes 176
 Photos 10,174
 Triplogs 2,324

46 male
 Joined Sep 08 2006
 
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ 
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jun 08 2019
JimTriplogs 2,324
Hiking17.00 Miles 3,467 AEG
Hiking17.00 Miles   8 Hrs   20 Mns   2.35 mph
3,467 ft AEG   1 Hour   6 Mns Break10 LBS Pack
 no routes
1st trip
This was not a peak. There was no peak to be found here. Overwhelmingly smokey views tragically destroyed the trip. Cancel your plans, NOW! Excessively crowded control roads are out of control. Dust....galore. On the point, more dust, buggies, and dust, never a moments peace. Donahue heat drains one's hiking stamina and frankly, why do I even leave the house? Over 8 hours of shear torture combined with some of the worst hiking conditions of the year made for an absolute hellish trip around this eyesore of geographic feature. There is no milk to be found here!

The only consolation was spotting the Woodbury Fire, and now it is obvious that by the weekend's end, the entirety of that dreadful Superstition Range will be blackened! No more apples!
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  2 archives
Jun 08 2019
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 Guides 110
 Routes 2,246
 Photos 8,982
 Triplogs 2,600

45 female
 Joined Dec 24 2007
 Ahwatukee, AZ
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ 
Milk Ranch Point Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jun 08 2019
LindaAnnTriplogs 2,600
Hiking17.06 Miles 3,467 AEG
Hiking17.06 Miles   8 Hrs   20 Mns   2.36 mph
3,467 ft AEG   1 Hour   6 Mns Break
 
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
Got started a little after 9:00am and headed up Red Rock Springs trail. The trail is easy enough to follow, but lots of round rocks, which slows travel a bit. Once we reached Highline, we headed east to Geronimo. Surprisingly clear views in all directions, despite the various fires burning around the state. We could just barely see a little smoke from the Coldwater fire, and really none from the Mountain fire. Took a short snack break near the junction with Geronimo, then continued on our way. Just after Camp Geronimo, we ended up on the Boy Scouts Geronimo-West Webber Connector; we started to backtrack, then decided to just stick with that trail since it parallels West Webber anyway. Lots of great maples through this section, and plenty of shade. We reached West Webber just before the steep switchbacks started, and headed up. This part was a bit of a slog for me, but I kept my complaining to a minimum. Once up top, we decided to head out to the edge of Milk Ranch Point before heading down Donahue. We followed one the forest roads out to the eastern-southeastern edge and found some shaded rocks to sit on for lunch. Once there, we could see directly south, and could just barely make out the start of the smoke plume from the Woodbury fire, but we couldn't tell for sure where it was located. After we ate, we headed back over to the Donahue Trail and make our way down off the Rim. Somewhere along here, Jim actually complained about the heat--I was very confused. Once back on Highline, we headed east back towards Red Rock Springs, and back down to the car, finishing up by 5:30. By late afternoon, the smoke from the Coldwater fire had increased noticeably, but all the smoke was headed east. On the drive home, the smoke from the Woodbury fire increased a lot too, and we could finally tell in which part of the Superstitions it was burning. Nice day and loop, with great weather. Saw no other hikers all day, but a few RZRs up top, which was kind of annoying since they don't seem to understand that roads marked closed to motorized vehicles actually includes them too.
 Flora
 Flora [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Bigtooth Maple
 Meteorology
 Meteorology [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Fire - Wildfire
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Stop crying and just go do the hike.
  3 archives
average hiking speed 2.31 mph
1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

WARNING! Hiking and outdoor related sports can be dangerous. Be responsible and prepare for the trip. Study the area you are entering and plan accordingly. Dress for the current and unexpected weather changes. Take plenty of water. Never go alone. Make an itinerary with your plan(s), route(s), destination(s) and expected return time. Give your itinerary to trusted family and/or friends.

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