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1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 23  Next
450 triplogs
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Jun 01 2025
avatar

 Routes 70
 Photos 3,081
 Triplogs 601

70 male
 Joined Feb 10 2019
 Cave Creek, AZ
Hoover Hill-Cave Creek, AZ 
Hoover Hill-Cave Creek, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jun 01 2025
LosDosSloFolks • Triplogs 601
Hiking2.54 Miles 320 AEG
Hiking2.54 Miles
320 ft AEG
 no routesno photosets
1st trip
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners none no partners
Short climb up Hoover Hill next to Black Mountain. 5:30 start to test my back w/o use of the brace. Saw a large squadron of Javelina crossing Military Trail. Must of been close to a dozen of them. Very little activity at the Black Mountain TH considering the perfect temps and nice breeze this morning. A few light sprinkles on the return.
_____________________
"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
 
Apr 10 2025
avatar

 Routes 70
 Photos 3,081
 Triplogs 601

70 male
 Joined Feb 10 2019
 Cave Creek, AZ
Salida Gulch Trail #95Prescott, AZ
Salida Gulch Trail #95
Prescott, AZ
Hiking avatar Apr 10 2025
LosDosSloFolks • Triplogs 601
Hiking4.23 Miles 530 AEG
Hiking4.23 Miles
530 ft AEG
 
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners none no partners
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
First hike in a couple of months for me. I've had a setback with my surgery rehab but I hope to be getting out more frequently... now that I've missed all the cool weather ](*,) . It wasn't much of a winter or spring, was it?

Salida Gulch Trail in the PNF is a short scenic hike with many shallow creek crossings (dry right now), but there are several connector trails to add on to it if one desires a longer trek. Johns Tank Trail [ Johns Tank Trail #94 ] https://hikearizona.com/photo-E.php is still closed Dec. thru June due to the nesting bald eagle pair in the area. Combining the Lynx lake Loop [ Lynx Recreation Trail #311 - Lake Loop ] with this hike makes for a good outing to entertain out of town guests.

Speaking of Lynx Lake...don't make any plans to visit for a while. They have the lake drained to less than half capacity to facilitate repairs to the northern dam and spillway. Not a pretty sight. :o

Trails in this area of the PNF have the usual suspects of flora... Ponderosa Pine, Alligator Juniper, Scrub Oak, and Manzanita. Trail maintenance was superb for the hikes entirety.
 Flora
 Flora [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Claret Cup Cactus
 Culture
 Culture [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Trail Signs and Markings

dry Johns Tank Dry Dry

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water less than maxwater less than max Lynx Lake 26-50% full 26-50% full
_____________________
"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
 
Feb 02 2025
avatar

 Routes 70
 Photos 3,081
 Triplogs 601

70 male
 Joined Feb 10 2019
 Cave Creek, AZ
Surrey Saddle, AZ 
Surrey Saddle, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Feb 02 2025
LosDosSloFolks • Triplogs 601
Hiking2.38 Miles 215 AEG
Hiking2.38 Miles      47 Mns   3.10 mph
215 ft AEG      1 Min Break
 no routesno photosets
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners none no partners
Close to home leg stretcher. I had planned on going up to the saddle at least twice but had to cut it short because I started late and after only 10 minutes I had hiked all the way into July. Plus, my legs were jello from yesterdays workout on my new stationary bike.
Life is tough...it's tougher when everything hurts. :|
_____________________
"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
  1 archive
Jan 29 2025
avatar

 Routes 70
 Photos 3,081
 Triplogs 601

70 male
 Joined Feb 10 2019
 Cave Creek, AZ
Wild Burro Trail - Lake PleasantPhoenix, AZ
Wild Burro Trail - Lake Pleasant
Phoenix, AZ
Hiking avatar Jan 29 2025
LosDosSloFolks • Triplogs 601
Hiking4.21 Miles 417 AEG
Hiking4.21 Miles
417 ft AEG6 LBS Pack
 
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners none no partners
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
Dreary and drizzly morning but I still wanted to get out of the house. I drove down the road to Lake Pleasant and did the out and back on the Wild Burro Trail with the hopes of running into some burros. I hiked this trail exactly one year ago to the day and saw dozens of the cute fur balls back then.

The light rain at the start of the hike must of had them looking for cover as I didn't see any until about one mile in. A family unit of four with one very young one greeted me with braying. When they saw I had carrots they became much less upset and judgemental. The poor adolescents face was covered with cockleburrs but there was no way to help him out short of anesthesia. He didn't seem to mind though.

I finished the hike without seeing any other critters so after my Out-N-Back hike I went to In-N-Out for a late lunch. The skies opened up just as I was leaving Lake Pleasant Park. Lucky timing.
 Fauna
 Fauna [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Wild Burro
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Lake Pleasant

water 1 out of 5water 2 out of 5water 3 out of 5water less than max Lake Pleasant 51-75% full 51-75% full
_____________________
"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
 
Jan 09 2025
avatar

 Routes 70
 Photos 3,081
 Triplogs 601

70 male
 Joined Feb 10 2019
 Cave Creek, AZ
Sidewinder-Ocotillo Loop, AZ 
Sidewinder-Ocotillo Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Jan 09 2025
LosDosSloFolks • Triplogs 601
Hiking5.40 Miles 573 AEG
Hiking5.40 Miles   2 Hrs   23 Mns   2.42 mph
573 ft AEG      9 Mns Break6 LBS Pack
 
Linked   linked  
Sidewinder Trail - Sonoran Perserve N
Ocotillo Trail - Sonoran Preserve North
Partners none no partners
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
CW loop starting from the Desert Hills TH of the Sonoran Preserve North. Cool temps to start then the sun came out from behind the clouds and it got warm. On the western side of the loop one lone cloud blocked the sun and the wind really picked up. Jacket had to go back on along with the stampede string on my hat or it would have sailed away.

Saw only a handful of hikers and a few MTB's. These trails have loads of wildflowers in February-March [ photo ] [ photo ] , but if rain doesn't come soon that won't happen. :(
 Culture
 Culture [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Antenna Farm
_____________________
"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
 
Jan 04 2025
avatar

 Routes 70
 Photos 3,081
 Triplogs 601

70 male
 Joined Feb 10 2019
 Cave Creek, AZ
Sunset Trail-Hoover Hill, AZ 
Sunset Trail-Hoover Hill, AZ
 
Walk / Tour avatar Jan 04 2025
LosDosSloFolks • Triplogs 601
Walk / Tour5.58 Miles 527 AEG
Walk / Tour5.58 Miles   1 Hour   56 Mns   2.99 mph
527 ft AEG      4 Mns Break
 no routesno photosets
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners none no partners
Basically just a rehab "hood walk" with a climb in the middle. Nice temps finally and no back brace today. :y:
There were LOTS of folks going up Black Mountain (think conga line)...the TH parking area was full.
_____________________
"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
 
Dec 29 2024
avatar

 Routes 70
 Photos 3,081
 Triplogs 601

70 male
 Joined Feb 10 2019
 Cave Creek, AZ
Rehab Hike, AZ 
Rehab Hike, AZ
 
Walk / Tour avatar Dec 29 2024
LosDosSloFolks • Triplogs 601
Walk / Tour2.16 Miles 156 AEG
Walk / Tour2.16 Miles      40 Mns   3.24 mph
156 ft AEG
 no routesno photosets
1st trip
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners none no partners
Sunset Trail w/o brace. Very warm.
_____________________
"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
  1 archive
Dec 17 2024
avatar

 Routes 70
 Photos 3,081
 Triplogs 601

70 male
 Joined Feb 10 2019
 Cave Creek, AZ
Granite Mountain Loop Trail - MSPNPhoenix, AZ
Granite Mountain Loop Trail - MSPN
Phoenix, AZ
Hiking avatar Dec 17 2024
LosDosSloFolks • Triplogs 601
Hiking6.75 Miles 510 AEG
Hiking6.75 Miles   2 Hrs   47 Mns   2.58 mph
510 ft AEG      10 Mns Break6 LBS Pack
 
Linked   linked  
Bootlegger Trail - MSPN
Balanced Rock Trail - MSPN
Saddlehorn Trail - MSPN
Partners none no partners
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
CCW lasso loop starting from the Granite Mountain TH with a detour over to see the Balanced Rock.
It's been a while since I've been on these trails and I'd forgotten how smooth and sticky the tread is.
Everything is decomposed granite like the Tom Thumb and Gateway areas but nothing is loose underfoot. It's nice not having to look down for the duration of the hike. Nothing to trip or slip on. :) @Tibber calls it "walk and gawk". Perfect conditions for rehabbing my back and getting some mileage in.

Thirty eight degrees at the start and downright hot after a mile and a half. :? Saw a handful of hikers, a few bikers, and a group of equestrians starting out as I was finishing.
 Flora
 Flora [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Juniper
 Geology
 Geology [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Granite
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Balanced Rock - MSP  Brown's Mountain - Scottsdale MSP  Cholla Mountain 3,406 - MSP North  Cone Mountain - MSP  Four Peaks  Granite Mountain - MSP  Little Granite Mountain - MSP North  Saddle Mountain 6,535, Mazatzal
_____________________
"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
 
Dec 11 2024
avatar

 Routes 70
 Photos 3,081
 Triplogs 601

70 male
 Joined Feb 10 2019
 Cave Creek, AZ
CCRP 4 Trail Loop, AZ 
CCRP 4 Trail Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Dec 11 2024
LosDosSloFolks • Triplogs 601
Hiking5.92 Miles 580 AEG
Hiking5.92 Miles   2 Hrs   40 Mns   2.40 mph
580 ft AEG      12 Mns Break6 LBS Pack
 
Linked   linked  
Military Trail - P.A. Seitts Preserves
Flat Rock Trail
Quartz Trail - CCRP
Slate Trail - CCRP
Partners none no partners
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
CCW loop from the P.A. Seitts TH without my back brace. I made a side trip up the Overlook Trail to visit Mrs. SloFolks bench before starting the loop. My original intent was to do 7-8 miles today but I started later than planned and had to 86 the Go John Trail from the loop. It got very warm when the sun came out. This is December, right?

Saw 1 hiker, 1 biker, 3 equestrians, and 2 doggos who were both very good boys.
foliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observation
Autumn Foliage Observation Light
Cottonwoods are still yellow along Cave Creek

dry Cave Creek Dry Dry

dry Go John Canyon Dry Dry
_____________________
"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
 
Dec 05 2024
avatar

 Routes 70
 Photos 3,081
 Triplogs 601

70 male
 Joined Feb 10 2019
 Cave Creek, AZ
Brown's Ranch, AZ 
Brown's Ranch, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Dec 05 2024
LosDosSloFolks • Triplogs 601
Hiking6.15 Miles 459 AEG
Hiking6.15 Miles
459 ft AEG6 LBS Pack
 
1st trip
Linked   linked  
Brown's Ranch Road Trail - MSPN
Upper Ranch Trail - MSPN
Cone Mountain Loop - MSPN
Partners none no partners
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
Wanted a flatter hike today to save my back so I went out to Brown's Ranch in the Sonoran Preserve North.
I thought the loop I planned would be a cakewalk but I underestimated the roller coaster of the Cone Mountain Trail. Up down, up down, up down. Felt tougher than the numbers in the heat. I made a wrong turn near the end which added a mile to the hike but I'm glad to have completed 6 more miles on my new spine. :)

Talked to a couple of stewards at the TH and I asked them if they knew fellow steward and HAZ member @Sun_Ray. The woman was aquainted with Brian but the the fellow with her denied his existence. :lol:

I used to come out here in High School for "boondockers"...basically just big parties in the desert for underage beer drinking. We called it Brownie's Place. Brownie was the son of E.O. Brown, the ranch namesake. He also owned D.C. (Desert Camp) Ranch. I tried to find the location of a historic [ photo ] of the ranch to do a pic-mimic in my photoset but I hiked past it and didn't feel like back tracking.
 Culture
 Culture [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Radome
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Brown's Mountain - Scottsdale MSP  Cholla Mountain 3,406 - MSP North  Cone Mountain - MSP  Humboldt Mountain  Little Granite Mountain - MSP North
_____________________
"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
  3 archives
Dec 03 2024
avatar

 Routes 70
 Photos 3,081
 Triplogs 601

70 male
 Joined Feb 10 2019
 Cave Creek, AZ
Apache Wash, AZ 
Apache Wash, AZ
 
 Hiking avatar Dec 03 2024
LosDosSloFolks • Triplogs 601
 Hiking5.75 Miles 798 AEG
 Hiking5.75 Miles
798 ft AEG6 LBS Pack
 
no photosets
1st trip
Linked   linked  
Sidewinder Trail - Sonoran Perserve N
Apache Vista Trail - Sonoran Preserve N
Ridgeback Trail - Sonoran Preserve N
Ridgeback Overlook Trail - Sonoran Pres N
Ocotillo Trail - Sonoran Preserve North
Partners none no partners
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
Nice workout loop that I haven't done in quite a while. Warm day...I should have started sooner or waited for cooler temps.

I bit off a bit more than I should have for this rehab hike. Best to have thrown in the towel after the first climb but I was determined to finish what I started. Lumbar fusion has shortened my stride by 8cm and I could really tell on the uphill sections. They say some of it will return by the 6 or 7 month mark.

The trails were all in good shape except for the ones that weren't and those really aggravated my incision. The massive back brace they gave me would have helped but I opted to go w/o it today. Poor decision.
OK, enough whining. I'm happy to get out, just impatient to get back to "normal". :y:
Saw 4 hikers and half a dozen mountain bikers.
_____________________
"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
 
Dec 01 2024
avatar

 Routes 70
 Photos 3,081
 Triplogs 601

70 male
 Joined Feb 10 2019
 Cave Creek, AZ
Hood Walk, AZ 
Hood Walk, AZ
 
Walk / Tour avatar Dec 01 2024
LosDosSloFolks • Triplogs 601
Walk / Tour3.20 Miles 199 AEG
Walk / Tour3.20 Miles   1 Hour   2 Mns   3.10 mph
199 ft AEG
 no routes
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners none no partners
Mid morning rehab 5K without my brace. Very warm out once I started.
Sunset Trail, Post Office, return.
_____________________
"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
 
Nov 28 2024
avatar

 Routes 70
 Photos 3,081
 Triplogs 601

70 male
 Joined Feb 10 2019
 Cave Creek, AZ
Surrey Saddle, AZ 
Surrey Saddle, AZ
 
Walk / Tour avatar Nov 28 2024
LosDosSloFolks • Triplogs 601
Walk / Tour1.71 Miles 207 AEG
Walk / Tour1.71 Miles      33 Mns   3.11 mph
207 ft AEG
 no routesno photosets
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners none no partners
Sunset Trail to Surrey Saddle and return. Planned on doing it 2X but it got warm quickly. Maybe round 2 after my Marie Callenders microwave turkey dinner. I should go to the store and get some cranberry sauce to complete the illusion. :) Happy Thanksgiving to my friends on HAZ.
_____________________
"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
  1 archive
Nov 19 2024
avatar

 Routes 70
 Photos 3,081
 Triplogs 601

70 male
 Joined Feb 10 2019
 Cave Creek, AZ
Boca Grande Trail - Spur Cross, AZ 
Boca Grande Trail - Spur Cross, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Nov 19 2024
LosDosSloFolks • Triplogs 601
Hiking3.59 Miles 448 AEG
Hiking3.59 Miles
448 ft AEG6 LBS Pack
 
1st trip
Linked   linked  
Dragonfly Trail - Spur Cross
Partners none no partners
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
I needed a short rehab hike for my back so I went up the road to Spur Cross Ranch to see if the Cottonwwods were turning yet at the Jewel of the Creek. Some color but mostly green still, maybe 2 to 3 more weeks for prime time.

The parking at the "Jewel" TH was full so I parked in the upper lot and walked back. During the hike I was surprised to see they had renamed the connector portion of the Dragonfly trail from the confluence of Black Mesa Creek north to Spur Cross Trail. It is now called the Boca Grande Trail. No changes except the name. It makes sense to have that section of the Dragonfly trail within SCRCA have it's own name.

Weather was perfect and I really never saw all the people whose cars were filling the lower lot.
Happy Anniversary HAZ!
 Fauna
 Fauna [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Dragonfly
 Culture
 Culture [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Mine Shaft  Trail Signs and Markings
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Elephant Mountain
_____________________
"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
 
Nov 15 2024
avatar

 Routes 70
 Photos 3,081
 Triplogs 601

70 male
 Joined Feb 10 2019
 Cave Creek, AZ
CCRP 4 Trail Loop, AZ 
CCRP 4 Trail Loop, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Nov 15 2024
LosDosSloFolks • Triplogs 601
Hiking5.12 Miles 462 AEG
Hiking5.12 Miles   2 Hrs   12 Mns   2.46 mph
462 ft AEG      7 Mns Break6 LBS Pack
 
Linked   linked  
Military Trail - P.A. Seitts Preserves
Flat Rock Trail
Quartz Trail - CCRP
Slate Trail - CCRP
Partners none no partners
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
My post surgery PT has been kicking my butt and I've been too sore to hike. I finally got out this morning and did a close to home CCW lasso loop starting from the P.A. Seitts TH. Quite a bit slower than what I used to do this in, but I'm thrilled that I made it 5 miles w/o my back brace. :)
Saw one trail runner and one equestrian. Beautiful weather.
 Flora
 Flora [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Cottonwood  Salt Cedar
 Geology
 Geology [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Phyllite  Quartz
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Black Mountain  Continental Mountain
foliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observationfoliage observation
Autumn Foliage Observation Isolated
Cottonwoods along Cave Creek are just starting to turn and the invasive Tamarisk was a nice shade of orange.

dry Cave Creek Dry Dry

dry Go John Canyon Dry Dry
_____________________
"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
 
Nov 09 2024
avatar

 Routes 70
 Photos 3,081
 Triplogs 601

70 male
 Joined Feb 10 2019
 Cave Creek, AZ
Overlook Trail-Cemetery, AZ 
Overlook Trail-Cemetery, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Nov 09 2024
LosDosSloFolks • Triplogs 601
Hiking2.47 Miles 237 AEG
Hiking2.47 Miles   1 Hour   9 Mns   2.39 mph
237 ft AEG      7 Mns Break6 LBS Pack
 
Linked   linked  
Slate Trail - CCRP
Partners none no partners
Route Scout Route Recorded  on Route Scout | Pop | Map | Popup | MapDEX
First "real" hike since my back surgery and fusion. I was unable to enter the trail system through Surrey Hills and the newly named Legacy Trail due to a mountain bike race. Plan B was to enter from the south instead at the P.A. Seitts TH. Probably a blessing in disguise as the rocky 200' descent down from the Surrey saddle would have been tough on my back without my brace.

Lot's of downed saguaros which was sad to see. I made the little climb up the Overlook Trail to visit the future memorial bench of Mrs. SloFolk. Afterward I went north to the old cemetery. I found myself right in the middle of the bike race on the return south but most were friendly.
 Named place
 Named place [ checklist ]
[ checklist ]  Cave Creek Cemetery

dry Cave Creek Dry Dry
_____________________
"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
 
Nov 07 2024
avatar

 Routes 70
 Photos 3,081
 Triplogs 601

70 male
 Joined Feb 10 2019
 Cave Creek, AZ
Hoover Hill, AZ 
Hoover Hill, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Nov 07 2024
LosDosSloFolks • Triplogs 601
Hiking2.54 Miles 305 AEG
Hiking2.54 Miles      59 Mns   2.67 mph
305 ft AEG      2 Mns Break
 no routesno photosets
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners none no partners
Rehab hike #21
No brace this time and it was slower and more difficult. Go figure.
#3 for Hoover Hill
_____________________
"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
 
Nov 02 2024
avatar

 Routes 70
 Photos 3,081
 Triplogs 601

70 male
 Joined Feb 10 2019
 Cave Creek, AZ
Hoover Hill, AZ 
Hoover Hill, AZ
 
Hiking avatar Nov 02 2024
LosDosSloFolks • Triplogs 601
Hiking2.54 Miles 320 AEG
Hiking2.54 Miles      55 Mns   2.88 mph
320 ft AEG      2 Mns Break
 no routesno photosets
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners none no partners
Rehab hike #20 w/back brace
#2 for Hoover Hill in Cave Creek.
_____________________
"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
 
Oct 30 2024
avatar

 Routes 70
 Photos 3,081
 Triplogs 601

70 male
 Joined Feb 10 2019
 Cave Creek, AZ
Hoover Hill, AZ 
Hoover Hill, AZ
 
 Hiking avatar Oct 30 2024
LosDosSloFolks • Triplogs 601
 Hiking2.54 Miles 273 AEG
 Hiking2.54 Miles      57 Mns   2.77 mph
273 ft AEG      2 Mns Break
 no routesno photosets
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners none no partners
Rehab hike #19 w/back brace.
Hoover Hill and back.
All the gain came in under 1/4 mile which kicked my out of shape :pk:.
_____________________
"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
  1 archive
Oct 28 2024
avatar

 Routes 70
 Photos 3,081
 Triplogs 601

70 male
 Joined Feb 10 2019
 Cave Creek, AZ
Rehab Walk, AZ 
Rehab Walk, AZ
 
Walk / Tour avatar Oct 28 2024
LosDosSloFolks • Triplogs 601
Walk / Tour2.33 Miles 136 AEG
Walk / Tour2.33 Miles      46 Mns   3.04 mph
136 ft AEG
 no routesno photosets
Linked   none no linked trail guides
Partners none no partners
#18 w/back brace
North on Sunset Trail-east on Military Trail-return
I really should start calling these training hikes instead of rehab hikes.
I have a hike coming up with the gecko but she will be handicapping herself with a 50# ruck. :)
_____________________
"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
  1 archive
average hiking speed 2.62 mph
1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 23  Next

WARNING! Hiking and outdoor related sports can be dangerous. Be responsible and prepare for the trip. Study the area you are entering and plan accordingly. Dress for the current and unexpected weather changes. Take plenty of water. Never go alone. Make an itinerary with your plan(s), route(s), destination(s) and expected return time. Give your itinerary to trusted family and/or friends.

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